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Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.49 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
curious80 wrote:
Sony would not do this for Leica lenses, but they might need this to help with their own lens design. APS-C NEX lenses are already generally very large for the body, and the FF one's would be even larger unless Sony does something on the sensor side to help lens design.
While you might be willing to pay 3 to 4K for this camera if it works well with m lenses, leica users are rather a small user base. How many would Sony really sell at that price? Even out of that user base many would stick to the rangefinder mechanism...Show more →
Well... The A99 is still $2800 so I'm not sure that's true... But I HOPE you're right!
Sony would not do this for Leica lenses, but they might need this to help with their own lens design. APS-C NEX lenses are already generally very large for the body, and the FF one's would be even larger unless Sony does something on the sensor side to help lens design.
While you might be willing to pay 3 to 4K for this camera if it works well with m lenses, leica users are rather a small user base. How many would Sony really sell at that price? Even out of that user base many would stick to the rangefinder mechanism...Show more →
Well... The A99 is still $2800 so I'm not sure that's true... But I HOPE you're right!
Oct 10, 2013 at 01:15 PM
p.49 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Anyone who has used Sony consistently for years - not many of us here - knows that they are an 'and' company not an 'or' company, meaning they add functionality on top of what is there. That is what makes the a99 such a fine camera, with a large number of innovations.
I see this new line the same way - they would see the need for legacy lenses of all kinds as important and a 'challenge' to their expertise. So if they can satisfy the legacy lens niche, and being aware that many high end users would love a solution (intelligence gathered from the now established NEX line) they will do it. They know they can never build 70 lenses for each of NEX crop, A7, and A mounts...can't be done. People forget this, and shitcan them for not doing it. And to date they have not walked away from any mount, another odd but common criticism.
You can add that if they find a way to break the mount-lens nexus that has been the mainstay of the industry forever (not in the large format world though), they would feel quite satisfied with that outcome. If there is a market they want it
I see this new line the same way - they would see the need for legacy lenses of all kinds as important and a 'challenge' to their expertise. So if they can satisfy the legacy lens niche, and being aware that many high end users would love a solution (intelligence gathered from the now established NEX line) they will do it. They know they can never build 70 lenses for each of NEX crop, A7, and A mounts...can't be done. People forget this, and shitcan them for not doing it. And to date they have not walked away from any mount, another odd but common criticism.
You can add that if they find a way to break the mount-lens nexus that has been the mainstay of the industry forever (not in the large format world though), they would feel quite satisfied with that outcome. If there is a market they want it
Oct 10, 2013 at 02:42 PM
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p.49 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
philip_pj wrote:
Anyone who has used Sony consistently for years - not many of us here - knows that they are an 'and' company not an 'or' company, meaning they add functionality on top of what is there. That is what makes the a99 such a fine camera, with a large number of innovations.
I see this new line the same way - they would see the need for legacy lenses of all kinds as important and a 'challenge' to their expertise. So if they can satisfy the legacy lens niche, and being aware that many high end users would love a solution...Show more →
These optimized sensors not for legacy stuff only: it will also allow them to design compact and high quality WAs.
Anyone who has used Sony consistently for years - not many of us here - knows that they are an 'and' company not an 'or' company, meaning they add functionality on top of what is there. That is what makes the a99 such a fine camera, with a large number of innovations.
I see this new line the same way - they would see the need for legacy lenses of all kinds as important and a 'challenge' to their expertise. So if they can satisfy the legacy lens niche, and being aware that many high end users would love a solution...Show more →
These optimized sensors not for legacy stuff only: it will also allow them to design compact and high quality WAs.
Oct 10, 2013 at 02:45 PM
p.49 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Vern Dewit wrote:
While you might be willing to pay 3 to 4K for this camera if it works well with m lenses, leica users are rather a small user base. How many would Sony really sell at that price? Even out of that user base many would stick to the rangefinder mechanism and the touch and feel of Leica brand. If Sony banks on that group for most of its sales then they would probably have to price it like Leica as well. Their pricing is really going to be based on a broader customer base.Well... The A99 is still $2800 so I'm not sure that's true... But I HOPE you're right!
Vern,
Consider that the A99 and in fact no Sony A, Canon EF, Nikon DSLR, or Pentax DSLR camera can be used to mount Leica M lenses. The only digital cameras that can (beside Leicas) are mirrorless in M4/3 and APS-C format size cameras due to their short registry. The Sony A7 and A7r cameras will be the first FF digital cameras beside Leica M240, M9, and M9P that will have this capability. This is and will be a real coup for Sony and if these cameras can work well with the Leica M WA lenses, this will also be of value for the design of their own lenses in an effort to keep their own new lenses smaller for this new system.
Rich
Edited on Oct 10, 2013 at 03:06 PM · View previous versions
curious80 wrote
Sony would not do this for Leica lenses, but they might need this to help with their own lens design. APS-C NEX lenses are already generally very large for the body, and the FF one's would be even larger unless Sony does something on the sensor side to help lens design.While you might be willing to pay 3 to 4K for this camera if it works well with m lenses, leica users are rather a small user base. How many would Sony really sell at that price? Even out of that user base many would stick to the rangefinder mechanism and the touch and feel of Leica brand. If Sony banks on that group for most of its sales then they would probably have to price it like Leica as well. Their pricing is really going to be based on a broader customer base.
Vern,
Consider that the A99 and in fact no Sony A, Canon EF, Nikon DSLR, or Pentax DSLR camera can be used to mount Leica M lenses. The only digital cameras that can (beside Leicas) are mirrorless in M4/3 and APS-C format size cameras due to their short registry. The Sony A7 and A7r cameras will be the first FF digital cameras beside Leica M240, M9, and M9P that will have this capability. This is and will be a real coup for Sony and if these cameras can work well with the Leica M WA lenses, this will also be of value for the design of their own lenses in an effort to keep their own new lenses smaller for this new system.
Rich
Edited on Oct 10, 2013 at 03:06 PM · View previous versions
Oct 10, 2013 at 02:54 PM
p.49 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
'One might go so far as to say that a high-res EVF on a full-frame NEX (likely built-in!) could possibly make it the camera of choice for manual focus DSLR lenses for many situations: for focusing accuracy and vision reasons and leveling the camera while shooting handheld, for the sheer enjoyment, for perfect 100% framing and so on. Assuming the ergonomics are solid.
Inertial trapped-in-the-past thinking means that DSLRs still have no EVF option. And it is why Canon and Nikon are skating on thin ice. Forcing buyers (like myself) to put up with impaired usability for no technical reason is a serious danger to the C/N hegemony.'
from Lloyd Chambers, who has a clue about this issue. Point being - even if Leica M is still imperfect, there are many other gains possible.
Inertial trapped-in-the-past thinking means that DSLRs still have no EVF option. And it is why Canon and Nikon are skating on thin ice. Forcing buyers (like myself) to put up with impaired usability for no technical reason is a serious danger to the C/N hegemony.'
from Lloyd Chambers, who has a clue about this issue. Point being - even if Leica M is still imperfect, there are many other gains possible.
Oct 10, 2013 at 03:00 PM
p.49 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
It's not only Sony who should be interested on making sensors more versatile concerning the acute angles of light. All the other manufacturers should be aware ( I'm sure they are ) that mirrorless systems will replace eventually most of the current DSLR market. Therefore, the freedom offered to optical designers by removing the mirror box can be exploited only if the acute angle issue is solved or, at least, considerably improved,
Oct 10, 2013 at 04:12 PM
p.49 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
philip_pj wrote:
'One might go so far as to say that a high-res EVF on a full-frame NEX (likely built-in!) could possibly make it the camera of choice for manual focus DSLR lenses for many situations: for focusing accuracy and vision reasons and leveling the camera while shooting handheld, for the sheer enjoyment, for perfect 100% framing and so on. Assuming the ergonomics are solid.
......
Agreed, the EVF is crucial - but one advantage of an "add-on" EVF like the one on the RX1 or the NEX 5N is that it could be updated as the technology improves, not so with a built in EVF.
'One might go so far as to say that a high-res EVF on a full-frame NEX (likely built-in!) could possibly make it the camera of choice for manual focus DSLR lenses for many situations: for focusing accuracy and vision reasons and leveling the camera while shooting handheld, for the sheer enjoyment, for perfect 100% framing and so on. Assuming the ergonomics are solid.
......
Agreed, the EVF is crucial - but one advantage of an "add-on" EVF like the one on the RX1 or the NEX 5N is that it could be updated as the technology improves, not so with a built in EVF.
Oct 10, 2013 at 05:58 PM
p.49 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
michael49 wrote:
Agreed, the EVF is crucial - but one advantage of an "add-on" EVF like the one on the RX1 or the NEX 5N is that it could be updated as the technology improves, not so with a built in EVF.
Michael, I don't think Sony is, or would, put out an updated "add-on" EVF for any camera really, over just putting out a new model to squeeze more money out of customers. I love the thought of the A7(R), I am very happy with my NEX-6, but this is the kind of thing I'd expect from Sony.
Agreed, the EVF is crucial - but one advantage of an "add-on" EVF like the one on the RX1 or the NEX 5N is that it could be updated as the technology improves, not so with a built in EVF.
Michael, I don't think Sony is, or would, put out an updated "add-on" EVF for any camera really, over just putting out a new model to squeeze more money out of customers. I love the thought of the A7(R), I am very happy with my NEX-6, but this is the kind of thing I'd expect from Sony.
Oct 10, 2013 at 09:17 PM
p.49 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
You can add a 70-200/4 to the launch lenses, it seems they learnt how to launch a system.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-there-is-also-a-70-200mm-f4-0-fe-zeiss/#comments
We can add one more lens in the FE range, the 70-200mm f/4.0 OSS FE Zeiss.
I also have been told that all lenses are weathersealed (just like the A7 and A7r cameras).
This sounds like a wicked travel setup... Getting excited!
So here is the list of lenses Sony will announce next week on October 16 at 5-6am London time (be sure to be on SonyAlphaRumors at that time to follow the event live):
Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS (likely on market in early 2014)
Sony G 28-70mm f/3.5-5.6 (don’t know if it’s OSS)
Zeiss FE 35mm f/2.8 (with that lens on the A7/A7R) the camera-lens size is the same of the RX1/R)
Zeiss FE 55mm f/1.8
Zeiss FE 70-200mm f/4.0 OSS (likely on market in early 2014)
I have been told there is a lens roadmap that Sony could show too.
The only downer is that there is no 85mm for E-mount, yet.
The next lenses in late 2014 or 2015 Could be a 24 & 85
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-there-is-also-a-70-200mm-f4-0-fe-zeiss/#comments
We can add one more lens in the FE range, the 70-200mm f/4.0 OSS FE Zeiss.
I also have been told that all lenses are weathersealed (just like the A7 and A7r cameras).
This sounds like a wicked travel setup... Getting excited!
So here is the list of lenses Sony will announce next week on October 16 at 5-6am London time (be sure to be on SonyAlphaRumors at that time to follow the event live):
Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS (likely on market in early 2014)
Sony G 28-70mm f/3.5-5.6 (don’t know if it’s OSS)
Zeiss FE 35mm f/2.8 (with that lens on the A7/A7R) the camera-lens size is the same of the RX1/R)
Zeiss FE 55mm f/1.8
Zeiss FE 70-200mm f/4.0 OSS (likely on market in early 2014)
I have been told there is a lens roadmap that Sony could show too.
The only downer is that there is no 85mm for E-mount, yet.
The next lenses in late 2014 or 2015 Could be a 24 & 85
Oct 11, 2013 at 02:46 AM
p.49 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
They need to put out a really clear roadmap with this. I don't want to see "UWA 2014" - I want to see "16-35 f/4 spring 2014". Show me that you've got real lens designs in the pipeline.
Oct 11, 2013 at 06:57 AM
p.49 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
LightShow wrote:
The only downer is that there is no 85mm for E-mount, yet.
The next lenses in late 2014 or 2015 Could be a 24 & 85
I believe there is a FF E-Mount 85 1.8 which is also going to be released soon.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/
The only downer is that there is no 85mm for E-mount, yet.
The next lenses in late 2014 or 2015 Could be a 24 & 85
I believe there is a FF E-Mount 85 1.8 which is also going to be released soon.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/
Oct 11, 2013 at 07:02 AM
p.49 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
theophilus wrote:
They need to put out a really clear roadmap with this. I don't want to see "UWA 2014" - I want to see "16-35 f/4 spring 2014". Show me that you've got real lens designs in the pipeline.
Just be grateful they are stepping up and getting the body ready to sell.
or would you rather wait for a map?
They need to put out a really clear roadmap with this. I don't want to see "UWA 2014" - I want to see "16-35 f/4 spring 2014". Show me that you've got real lens designs in the pipeline.
Just be grateful they are stepping up and getting the body ready to sell.
or would you rather wait for a map?
Oct 11, 2013 at 08:02 AM
p.49 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
uhoh7 wrote:
Just be grateful they are stepping up and getting the body ready to sell.
or would you rather wait for a map?
For a system to gain traction in the wider market you have to have the complete focal range covered, and the sooner the better. I personally shoot only primes and have some alt glass ready for this, which is a lot of folks on here, but we aren't really the target market. What are we here, 0.1% of camera users?
I was using my NEX-7 the other day at my daughter's volleyball game. A guy said, "I didn't know Sony made SLR's." I explained it was mirrorless, took the lens off, told him the benefits and tradeoffs, etc. He said "wow, that's cool, I didn't even know Sony made SLR's". I've never seen another person using more than a NEX-3. I've seen one Nikon V1 at a gymnastics meet. 99.9% of what is see are entry level Canon/Nikon with a kit zoom or crappy consumer tele, or the mega-zoom compacts. Sony has a huge marketing hurdle to overcome. Canon EOS is ingrained in people's minds since the Andre Agassi commercials.
I think half of the reason Sony does this is to show sensor technology where they make their money. Their systems come off like Wii Sports, a tech demo, not a fully baked product line.
theophilus wrote
They need to put out a really clear roadmap with this. I don't want to see "UWA 2014" - I want to see "16-35 f/4 spring 2014". Show me that you've got real lens designs in the pipeline.or would you rather wait for a map?
For a system to gain traction in the wider market you have to have the complete focal range covered, and the sooner the better. I personally shoot only primes and have some alt glass ready for this, which is a lot of folks on here, but we aren't really the target market. What are we here, 0.1% of camera users?
I was using my NEX-7 the other day at my daughter's volleyball game. A guy said, "I didn't know Sony made SLR's." I explained it was mirrorless, took the lens off, told him the benefits and tradeoffs, etc. He said "wow, that's cool, I didn't even know Sony made SLR's". I've never seen another person using more than a NEX-3. I've seen one Nikon V1 at a gymnastics meet. 99.9% of what is see are entry level Canon/Nikon with a kit zoom or crappy consumer tele, or the mega-zoom compacts. Sony has a huge marketing hurdle to overcome. Canon EOS is ingrained in people's minds since the Andre Agassi commercials.
I think half of the reason Sony does this is to show sensor technology where they make their money. Their systems come off like Wii Sports, a tech demo, not a fully baked product line.
Oct 11, 2013 at 08:17 AM
p.49 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
uhoh7 wrote:
or would you rather wait for a map?
With Sony in particular, unless they randomly happen to already have all the lenses you need, it pays off to wait until you know that they will one day have you covered. The way they roll out lenses is far from obvious, and not exactly timely.
or would you rather wait for a map?
With Sony in particular, unless they randomly happen to already have all the lenses you need, it pays off to wait until you know that they will one day have you covered. The way they roll out lenses is far from obvious, and not exactly timely.
Oct 11, 2013 at 08:19 AM
p.49 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
theophilus wrote:
I think half of the reason Sony does this is to show sensor technology where they make their money. Their systems come off like Wii Sports, a tech demo, not a fully baked product line.
True. There is a stigma surrounding their products. What's it's origin? The Walkman? Minidisc? Diversification?
I'd love to see Sony make inroads into the pro DSLR world with something bombproof, something stunning. And a camera beautiful in looks - I don't like the aesthetics of the Alpha range.
But I think the one thing that is preventing from Sony gaining traction in that sphere is optics.
I think half of the reason Sony does this is to show sensor technology where they make their money. Their systems come off like Wii Sports, a tech demo, not a fully baked product line.
True. There is a stigma surrounding their products. What's it's origin? The Walkman? Minidisc? Diversification?
I'd love to see Sony make inroads into the pro DSLR world with something bombproof, something stunning. And a camera beautiful in looks - I don't like the aesthetics of the Alpha range.
But I think the one thing that is preventing from Sony gaining traction in that sphere is optics.
Oct 11, 2013 at 08:33 AM
p.49 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Paul Mo wrote:
I'd love to see Sony make inroads into the pro DSLR world with something bombproof, something stunning. And a camera beautiful in looks - I don't like the aesthetics of the Alpha range.
But I think the one thing that is preventing from Sony gaining traction in that sphere is optics.
I think their attempt at the Pro market was the A900 (which checked all the boxes for me) but indeed, Sony's lens lineup probably proved to be the weak link. After that experiment, I suspect Sony will stay pretty much in the consumer and enthusiast camp. Larger market in any case.
I'd love to see Sony make inroads into the pro DSLR world with something bombproof, something stunning. And a camera beautiful in looks - I don't like the aesthetics of the Alpha range.
But I think the one thing that is preventing from Sony gaining traction in that sphere is optics.
I think their attempt at the Pro market was the A900 (which checked all the boxes for me) but indeed, Sony's lens lineup probably proved to be the weak link. After that experiment, I suspect Sony will stay pretty much in the consumer and enthusiast camp. Larger market in any case.
Oct 11, 2013 at 08:38 AM
p.49 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-a7-a7r-sketch-shows-the-real-camera-design/
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Oct 11, 2013 at 08:39 AM
p.49 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
If the drawing is indeed somewhat accurate, it is odd that the protruding eyepiece for the EVF at the rear (long enough it looks to keep ones nose from hitting the lcd screen) could have been made to tilt. I sort of wish that EVF was removable.
Are you sure this isn't a sketch of the Hasselblad version?
) could have been made to tilt. I sort of wish that EVF was removable.Are you sure this isn't a sketch of the Hasselblad version?
Oct 11, 2013 at 08:46 AM
p.49 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
It's a slim contax 645.
Oct 11, 2013 at 08:54 AM
p.49 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
, certainly it looks like the Hasselblad knock-off. That big hump seems like an after thought, clashing with all the rounded corners of the body, and is disproportionately large. Oct 11, 2013 at 08:55 AM