This topic is in the 2013 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.47 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
That is not so much a corner cast Ed/Gary, rather it is a 15% left/15% right strip of frame cast. Even the cast is not consistent! I'd say that is a low bar to rise above, or maybe the lens design is problematic.
Oct 08, 2013 at 11:43 PM
p.47 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
HopeIsEternal:
A bit long, and while you have your points, it is basically saying that Sony does not - in your view - classify as a "real photo company". Maybe. Their DNA is electronic. They build the best image sensors found in digital cameras. They also build the smallest FF camera to date and the new FF cameras will continue that line. They have to be applauded for that alone, because I am sick of schlepping around oversized and overweight gear.
Yes traditional camera makers have more an better lenses but none of the 2 big players has offered something convincing in the mirrorless market. They hesitate because this is in cometition with their DSLR line.
I have shots great images with both the Nex 7 and the Fuji X, also of my fast moving daughter. Yes more lenses may be good, and the mirrorless choices so far are no Ersatz for the pro photographer. But so what? The majority - also here - are no pros. Mirrorless (including Sony) offer the incredible advantage (except extreme WA) to adapt virtually every lens ever made, which makes them more versatile than DSLRs.
I like the Nex for what they have and offer, not for what they do not have.
A bit long, and while you have your points, it is basically saying that Sony does not - in your view - classify as a "real photo company". Maybe. Their DNA is electronic. They build the best image sensors found in digital cameras. They also build the smallest FF camera to date and the new FF cameras will continue that line. They have to be applauded for that alone, because I am sick of schlepping around oversized and overweight gear.
Yes traditional camera makers have more an better lenses but none of the 2 big players has offered something convincing in the mirrorless market. They hesitate because this is in cometition with their DSLR line.
I have shots great images with both the Nex 7 and the Fuji X, also of my fast moving daughter. Yes more lenses may be good, and the mirrorless choices so far are no Ersatz for the pro photographer. But so what? The majority - also here - are no pros. Mirrorless (including Sony) offer the incredible advantage (except extreme WA) to adapt virtually every lens ever made, which makes them more versatile than DSLRs.
I like the Nex for what they have and offer, not for what they do not have.
Oct 09, 2013 at 02:28 AM
p.47 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Philip, indeed I don't know why it's called corner cast, because it normally affects the borders 
Many people actually crop off the problematic strips, but then what's the point of using a UWA. It is not a lens design issue, it is just a rear element that is too close to the sensor.
philip_pj wrote:
That is not so much a corner cast Ed/Gary, rather it is a 15% left/15% right strip of frame cast. Even the cast is not consistent! I'd say that is a low bar to rise above, or maybe the lens design is problematic.
Many people actually crop off the problematic strips, but then what's the point of using a UWA. It is not a lens design issue, it is just a rear element that is too close to the sensor.
philip_pj wrote:
That is not so much a corner cast Ed/Gary, rather it is a 15% left/15% right strip of frame cast. Even the cast is not consistent! I'd say that is a low bar to rise above, or maybe the lens design is problematic.
Oct 09, 2013 at 03:55 AM
Emacs
Offline
Activity
[X]
Details
p.47 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
edwardkaraa wrote:
Philip, indeed I don't know why it's called corner cast, because it normally affects the borders
Many people actually crop off the problematic strips, but then what's the point of using a UWA. It is not a lens design issue, it is just a rear element that is too close to the sensor.
It's sensor issue.
Philip, indeed I don't know why it's called corner cast, because it normally affects the borders
Many people actually crop off the problematic strips, but then what's the point of using a UWA. It is not a lens design issue, it is just a rear element that is too close to the sensor.
philip_pj wrote
That is not so much a corner cast Ed/Gary, rather it is a 15% left/15% right strip of frame cast. Even the cast is not consistent! I'd say that is a low bar to rise above, or maybe the lens design is problematic.It's sensor issue.
Oct 09, 2013 at 05:48 AM
p.47 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-two-zooms-aperture-info-sony-g-and-zeiss/
"Next week on October 16-17 Sony will announce the new A7 and A7r cameras. And I finally got the info on the aperture of the two zooms:
1) Sony G FE 28-75mm f/3.5-5.6. This lens will be sold as kit lens with the A7 cameras. I don’t know yet if the lens has OSS or not.
2) Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS lens. This lens could be in store in early 2014 only (while the Sony G zoom will be available in November).
Price is yet unknown but the Sony G zoom will cost around 300 Dollars/Euro when purchased with the camera (should be around 500 Dollars/Euro if you buy it as single item). I have been told the 28-70mm lens (when bought as kit lens with camera) is the only “low-priced lens of the FE range which includes also the Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 and Zeiss 55mm f/1.8 lens."
"Next week on October 16-17 Sony will announce the new A7 and A7r cameras. And I finally got the info on the aperture of the two zooms:
1) Sony G FE 28-75mm f/3.5-5.6. This lens will be sold as kit lens with the A7 cameras. I don’t know yet if the lens has OSS or not.
2) Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS lens. This lens could be in store in early 2014 only (while the Sony G zoom will be available in November).
Price is yet unknown but the Sony G zoom will cost around 300 Dollars/Euro when purchased with the camera (should be around 500 Dollars/Euro if you buy it as single item). I have been told the 28-70mm lens (when bought as kit lens with camera) is the only “low-priced lens of the FE range which includes also the Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 and Zeiss 55mm f/1.8 lens."
Oct 09, 2013 at 08:14 AM
p.47 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I'd be happy with a compact 24-70/4 and a 50/1.5 sonnar for travel.
Oct 09, 2013 at 08:33 AM
p.47 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
serhan_ wrote:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-two-zooms-aperture-info-sony-g-and-zeiss/
"Next week on October 16-17 Sony will announce the new A7 and A7r cameras. And I finally got the info on the aperture of the two zooms:
1) Sony G FE 28-75mm f/3.5-5.6. This lens will be sold as kit lens with the A7 cameras. I don’t know yet if the lens has OSS or not.
2) Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS lens. This lens could be in store in early 2014 only (while the Sony G zoom will be available in November).
Price is yet unknown but the Sony G zoom will cost around 300 Dollars/Euro when purchased with the camera (should...Show more →
those sound like pretty well chosen specs to me. if they're smart they'll show a roadmap at announcement with wide and portrait primes and maybe a zeiss branded ultrawide zoom on it.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-two-zooms-aperture-info-sony-g-and-zeiss/
"Next week on October 16-17 Sony will announce the new A7 and A7r cameras. And I finally got the info on the aperture of the two zooms:
1) Sony G FE 28-75mm f/3.5-5.6. This lens will be sold as kit lens with the A7 cameras. I don’t know yet if the lens has OSS or not.
2) Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS lens. This lens could be in store in early 2014 only (while the Sony G zoom will be available in November).
Price is yet unknown but the Sony G zoom will cost around 300 Dollars/Euro when purchased with the camera (should...Show more →
those sound like pretty well chosen specs to me. if they're smart they'll show a roadmap at announcement with wide and portrait primes and maybe a zeiss branded ultrawide zoom on it.
Oct 09, 2013 at 11:04 AM
p.47 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
edwardkaraa wrote:
That's a very nice shot Gary. Too bad it's spoiled by the corner cast.
One more question, a bit OT, did you ever try shooting with the camera correction turned off? If yes, how do you rate the performance?
Yes, I also tried a few shots with the lens detection disabled. Not much difference at all...
That's a very nice shot Gary. Too bad it's spoiled by the corner cast.
One more question, a bit OT, did you ever try shooting with the camera correction turned off? If yes, how do you rate the performance?
Yes, I also tried a few shots with the lens detection disabled. Not much difference at all...
Oct 09, 2013 at 11:46 AM
p.47 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
philip_pj wrote:
That is not so much a corner cast Ed/Gary, rather it is a 15% left/15% right strip of frame cast. Even the cast is not consistent! I'd say that is a low bar to rise above, or maybe the lens design is problematic.
I never said it had a CORNER color cast.... Whatever you call it, I hate it.
That is not so much a corner cast Ed/Gary, rather it is a 15% left/15% right strip of frame cast. Even the cast is not consistent! I'd say that is a low bar to rise above, or maybe the lens design is problematic.
I never said it had a CORNER color cast.... Whatever you call it, I hate it.
Oct 09, 2013 at 11:47 AM
p.47 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
uscmatt99 wrote:
Moire should be less of a problem on a 36mp AA-less sensor than on the GXR, and likely the 24mp variant of the FF NEX with a filter.
Can you please explain how you came to that conclusion, Matt?
Moire should be less of a problem on a 36mp AA-less sensor than on the GXR, and likely the 24mp variant of the FF NEX with a filter.
Can you please explain how you came to that conclusion, Matt?
Oct 09, 2013 at 02:31 PM
p.47 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
artur5 wrote:
I agree with you. In my experience with the GXR and Zeiss lenses ( ZM25/2.8 and ZM35/2) moire wasn't rare with certain patterns -urban landscape, fences, netwires- but not a real problem either. I'll take a bit of moire over blurry corners or purple fringing any time.
Also, the A7r has smaller pixels than the GXR-A12M mount, therefore moire will be less frequent.
And if it comes down to better performance with the lenses I care about, then I will buy the A7r. But until that's more than speculation, I'm rooting for the cheaper model.
I agree with you. In my experience with the GXR and Zeiss lenses ( ZM25/2.8 and ZM35/2) moire wasn't rare with certain patterns -urban landscape, fences, netwires- but not a real problem either. I'll take a bit of moire over blurry corners or purple fringing any time.
Also, the A7r has smaller pixels than the GXR-A12M mount, therefore moire will be less frequent.
And if it comes down to better performance with the lenses I care about, then I will buy the A7r. But until that's more than speculation, I'm rooting for the cheaper model.
Oct 09, 2013 at 02:39 PM
p.47 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
sebboh wrote:
"Next week on October 16-17 Sony will announce the new A7 and A7r cameras. And I finally got the info on the aperture of the two zooms:
1) Sony G FE 28-75mm f/3.5-5.6. This lens will be sold as kit lens with the A7 cameras. I don’t know yet if the lens has OSS or not.
2) Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS lens. This lens could be in store in early 2014 only (while the Sony G zoom will be available in November).
Price is yet unknown but the Sony G zoom will cost around 300 Dollars/Euro when purchased with the camera (should be around 500 Dollars/Euro if you buy it as single item). I have been told the 28-70mm lens (when bought as kit lens with camera) is the only “low-priced lens of the FE range which includes also the Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 and Zeiss 55mm f/1.8 lens."those sound like pretty well chosen specs to me. if they're smart they'll show a roadmap at announcement with wide and portrait primes and maybe a zeiss branded ultrawide zoom on it.
I wonder if they could get a 16-35/4 much smaller than the Canon 17-40/4L.
serhan_ wrote
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-two-zooms-aperture-info-sony-g-and-zeiss/"Next week on October 16-17 Sony will announce the new A7 and A7r cameras. And I finally got the info on the aperture of the two zooms:
1) Sony G FE 28-75mm f/3.5-5.6. This lens will be sold as kit lens with the A7 cameras. I don’t know yet if the lens has OSS or not.
2) Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS lens. This lens could be in store in early 2014 only (while the Sony G zoom will be available in November).
Price is yet unknown but the Sony G zoom will cost around 300 Dollars/Euro when purchased with the camera (should be around 500 Dollars/Euro if you buy it as single item). I have been told the 28-70mm lens (when bought as kit lens with camera) is the only “low-priced lens of the FE range which includes also the Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 and Zeiss 55mm f/1.8 lens."
I wonder if they could get a 16-35/4 much smaller than the Canon 17-40/4L.
Oct 09, 2013 at 02:43 PM
p.47 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
SAR is reporting more Spec information regarding the A7/A7r cameras (SR5) with quoted points below :
1) AF is faster than the RX series but still not as fast as the best in the mirrorless world
2) A7 and A7r have focus peaking
3) eye tracking AF
4) they are about same size as the Olympus OMD series
5) There is an optional vertical grip
6) They have Wifi and NFC
7) no Tri Navi, They had scroll wheels in front and back (which were very much like nex-7′s) and an exposure comp wheel from RX1.
8) One source the body quality is very good and the camera had a Pentax LX feeling.
9) 1/8000 shutter speed
10) both have tiltatble screen
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-more-a7a73-specs-and-info/
Rich
1) AF is faster than the RX series but still not as fast as the best in the mirrorless world
2) A7 and A7r have focus peaking
3) eye tracking AF
4) they are about same size as the Olympus OMD series
5) There is an optional vertical grip
6) They have Wifi and NFC
7) no Tri Navi, They had scroll wheels in front and back (which were very much like nex-7′s) and an exposure comp wheel from RX1.
8) One source the body quality is very good and the camera had a Pentax LX feeling.
9) 1/8000 shutter speed
10) both have tiltatble screen
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-more-a7a73-specs-and-info/
Rich
Oct 10, 2013 at 05:01 AM
p.47 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Pentax LX feeling ?.. Well, at least they won't suffer from the 'sticky mirror' syndrome.
It's logical that the A7r -with no PDAF on sensor- won't be among the fastest AF mirrorless cameras, but the A7 should be on line with Olympus and, if the rumor is accurate, this isn't so.
No built in flash probably, but we'll see.
I pray that the peaking will be NEX style and not like the RX1 linked with Image magnification. For me, that would be definitively a deal breaker.
It's logical that the A7r -with no PDAF on sensor- won't be among the fastest AF mirrorless cameras, but the A7 should be on line with Olympus and, if the rumor is accurate, this isn't so.
No built in flash probably, but we'll see.
I pray that the peaking will be NEX style and not like the RX1 linked with Image magnification. For me, that would be definitively a deal breaker.
Oct 10, 2013 at 05:46 AM
p.47 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
And no big evf hump also
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/first-image-of-the-sony-a7-a7r-presenattion/
naturephoto1 wrote:
SAR is reporting more Spec information regarding the A7/A7r cameras (SR5) with quoted points below :
1) AF is faster than the RX series but still not as fast as the best in the mirrorless world
2) A7 and A7r have focus peaking
3) eye tracking AF
4) they are about same size as the Olympus OMD series
5) There is an optional vertical grip
6) They have Wifi and NFC
7) no Tri Navi, They had scroll wheels in front and back (which were very much like nex-7Œs) and an exposure comp wheel from RX1.
8) One source the body quality is very good and the camera...Show more →
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/first-image-of-the-sony-a7-a7r-presenattion/
naturephoto1 wrote:
SAR is reporting more Spec information regarding the A7/A7r cameras (SR5) with quoted points below :
1) AF is faster than the RX series but still not as fast as the best in the mirrorless world
2) A7 and A7r have focus peaking
3) eye tracking AF
4) they are about same size as the Olympus OMD series
5) There is an optional vertical grip
6) They have Wifi and NFC
7) no Tri Navi, They had scroll wheels in front and back (which were very much like nex-7Œs) and an exposure comp wheel from RX1.
8) One source the body quality is very good and the camera...Show more →
Oct 10, 2013 at 06:51 AM
p.47 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
serhan_ wrote:
And no big evf hump also
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/first-image-of-the-sony-a7-a7r-presenattion/
1) AF is faster than the RX series but still not as fast as the best in the mirrorless world
2) A7 and A7r have focus peaking
3) eye tracking AF
4) they are about same size as the Olympus OMD series
5) There is an optional vertical grip
6) They have Wifi and NFC
7) no Tri Navi, They had scroll wheels in front and back (which were very much like nex-7Œs) and an exposure comp wheel from RX1.
8) One source the body quality is very good and the camera had a Pentax LX feeling.
9) 1/8000 shutter speed
10) both have tiltatble screen
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-more-a7a73-specs-and-info/
Rich
It looks like the cameras have a small EVF hump in the dismal photo. Hopefully again though the cameras will offer the capabilities of an electronic remote wire and long exposures to at least 30 minutes to an hour.
Rich
And no big evf hump also
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/first-image-of-the-sony-a7-a7r-presenattion/
naturephoto1 wrote
SAR is reporting more Spec information regarding the A7/A7r cameras (SR5) with quoted points below :1) AF is faster than the RX series but still not as fast as the best in the mirrorless world
2) A7 and A7r have focus peaking
3) eye tracking AF
4) they are about same size as the Olympus OMD series
5) There is an optional vertical grip
6) They have Wifi and NFC
7) no Tri Navi, They had scroll wheels in front and back (which were very much like nex-7Œs) and an exposure comp wheel from RX1.
8) One source the body quality is very good and the camera had a Pentax LX feeling.
9) 1/8000 shutter speed
10) both have tiltatble screen
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-more-a7a73-specs-and-info/
Rich
It looks like the cameras have a small EVF hump in the dismal photo. Hopefully again though the cameras will offer the capabilities of an electronic remote wire and long exposures to at least 30 minutes to an hour.
Rich
Oct 10, 2013 at 07:00 AM
p.47 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
sounds good, as long as the zooms are not massive, they'd feel weird on an OMD-size camera.
any talk of built in EVF or just attachable?
any talk of built in EVF or just attachable?
Oct 10, 2013 at 07:04 AM
p.47 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Yes, they are built in like Oly OMD's/Nikon V1/2.
Spyro P. wrote:
sounds good, as long as the zooms are not massive, they'd feel weird on an OMD-size camera.
any talk of built in EVF or just attachable?
Spyro P. wrote:
sounds good, as long as the zooms are not massive, they'd feel weird on an OMD-size camera.
any talk of built in EVF or just attachable?
Oct 10, 2013 at 07:11 AM
p.47 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I was expecting a larger hump in the middle for the EVF. Perhaps there is just more room between the top of the lens mount and the top profile of the camera so more was able to be hidden. Hopefully, the quality of the EVF and associated optics are at least as good as that in the RX1 EVF.
Oct 10, 2013 at 07:15 AM
p.47 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
freaklikeme wrote:
Can you please explain how you came to that conclusion, Matt?
Just complete speculation and it really depends on the implementation of the AA filter on the 24mp camera. But my Nikon D600 (24mp sensor with AA filter) still has moire crop up when I'm using my ZF 100/2 and 35/1.4 at f/5.6, usually in urban landscape photos. I haven't used these lenses on a D800e to see how often moire occurs, but it doesn't seem to be as common as people originally feared it would be.
It was more complicated with the GXR, but the increased pixel density of a 36mp FX sensor vs. a 12mp DX sensor should also favor the 36mp camera. The dng files from the GXR had very different looks depending on the RAW converter I used, with horrible moire and random color artifacts using Aperture, significant improvement with LR, and even better with RPP.
uscmatt99 wrote
Moire should be less of a problem on a 36mp AA-less sensor than on the GXR, and likely the 24mp variant of the FF NEX with a filter.Just complete speculation and it really depends on the implementation of the AA filter on the 24mp camera. But my Nikon D600 (24mp sensor with AA filter) still has moire crop up when I'm using my ZF 100/2 and 35/1.4 at f/5.6, usually in urban landscape photos. I haven't used these lenses on a D800e to see how often moire occurs, but it doesn't seem to be as common as people originally feared it would be.
It was more complicated with the GXR, but the increased pixel density of a 36mp FX sensor vs. a 12mp DX sensor should also favor the 36mp camera. The dng files from the GXR had very different looks depending on the RAW converter I used, with horrible moire and random color artifacts using Aperture, significant improvement with LR, and even better with RPP.
Oct 10, 2013 at 07:18 AM