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Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.4 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
joekraft wrote:
Is the 7 supposed to be refreshed?
) Nex7 replacement. I know that many of my FF lenses while absolutely excellent on APS will not cut it on FF and I'm not anxious to start a new round of buying, I just want the colour cast/smearing fixed for RF lenses and a new Nex 7 will do fine.
Mike
They have been talking about it on SAR for some time.. the last post was on July 8th
"APS-C NEX:
After a long delay the NEX-7 successor is scheduled to be announced in late August-early September. With shipment due in October. The cause of the delay could have been a pre-production hardware issue on the camera that had to be fixed. New lenses are coming too (High grade zoom, 85mm fast lens and probably one more lens)."
Mike
Is the 7 supposed to be refreshed?
mcbroomf wrote
Well I just hope that this does not take away from the hoped for (by me) Nex7 replacement. I know that many of my FF lenses while absolutely excellent on APS will not cut it on FF and I'm not anxious to start a new round of buying, I just want the colour cast/smearing fixed for RF lenses and a new Nex 7 will do fine.Mike
They have been talking about it on SAR for some time.. the last post was on July 8th
"APS-C NEX:
After a long delay the NEX-7 successor is scheduled to be announced in late August-early September. With shipment due in October. The cause of the delay could have been a pre-production hardware issue on the camera that had to be fixed. New lenses are coming too (High grade zoom, 85mm fast lens and probably one more lens)."
Mike
Jul 09, 2013 at 10:42 AM
p.4 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
ISO1600 wrote:
Come to think of it, are there any FF NEX lenses as of yet? Or are they all crop image circles?
All of the current Nex lenses have an aps-c image circle.
This is a pretty good rundown from theSuede about the current e-mount and FF lenses: Link to post
And here Link
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 10:47 AM · View previous versions
rirakuma wrote
FF NEX lensesAll of the current Nex lenses have an aps-c image circle.
This is a pretty good rundown from theSuede about the current e-mount and FF lenses: Link to post
And here Link
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 10:47 AM · View previous versions
Jul 09, 2013 at 10:43 AM
p.4 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Well, I'm tentatively excited. My thoughts:
- don't care about mount as long as registration distance is roughly the same as Nex. If the distance is >= M-mount, I will not buy one
- corner performance: I can live with color cast, but not horrible mushiness, when using RF wides.
- size: I'm perfectly happy with the exact Nex-7 size, or perhaps slightly larger. Not much though.
- must have a built-in EVF and articulated LCD (at least as good as Nex-7's).
IBIS would be awesome, but isn't a deal-breaker for me. My guess is it won't have it, they'll stick with in-lens stabilization. Only their SLR-alike cameras will have IBIS.
I don't care about native lenses.
- don't care about mount as long as registration distance is roughly the same as Nex. If the distance is >= M-mount, I will not buy one
- corner performance: I can live with color cast, but not horrible mushiness, when using RF wides.
- size: I'm perfectly happy with the exact Nex-7 size, or perhaps slightly larger. Not much though.
- must have a built-in EVF and articulated LCD (at least as good as Nex-7's).
IBIS would be awesome, but isn't a deal-breaker for me. My guess is it won't have it, they'll stick with in-lens stabilization. Only their SLR-alike cameras will have IBIS.
I don't care about native lenses.
Jul 09, 2013 at 10:45 AM
p.4 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
cputeq wrote:
Also bets on Zeiss easily porting their 35/2 on the RX1 into an RX1RL version.
douglasf13 wrote:
The rear element of the RX1 (probably the largest I've seen in a wide angle lens for 135) is much too large, and the sensor to rear element distance is much too small to port this lens to an interchangeable version, which is why the RX1 concept will remain relevant. If Sony does use the current e-mount for the FF Nex, the lenses will be relatively huge, as theSuede has talked about. Think AF SLR lens + adapter in size.
morpheus2891 wrote:
So if they release a new, wider mount would that allow for smaller lens design? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. Regardless of how it plays with RF glass it will essentially be a digital back for just about any SLR lens ever made (though a few small lenses would be nice )
douglasf13 wrote:
It would likely have to be something like the largest mount that we've ever seen for 135, and there would still be issues with having the rear element so close to the sensor. There are inherent advantages to fixed lens cameras. Just think how large the Zeiss 24/1.8 is for Nex, and that is only designed for aps-c.
I don't think they have to make the mount any bigger, the issue is how low angle rays interact with the sensor and it's toppings, some R&D is all it should take to eliminate or reduce the color shifting that the 7 was effected by, like I said before the FF NEX camcorder was actually quite good and that was a while ago, I'm sure progress has been made.
At any rate lets not jump to conclusions till its released.
Also bets on Zeiss easily porting their 35/2 on the RX1 into an RX1RL version.
douglasf13 wrote:
The rear element of the RX1 (probably the largest I've seen in a wide angle lens for 135) is much too large, and the sensor to rear element distance is much too small to port this lens to an interchangeable version, which is why the RX1 concept will remain relevant. If Sony does use the current e-mount for the FF Nex, the lenses will be relatively huge, as theSuede has talked about. Think AF SLR lens + adapter in size.
morpheus2891 wrote:
So if they release a new, wider mount would that allow for smaller lens design? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. Regardless of how it plays with RF glass it will essentially be a digital back for just about any SLR lens ever made (though a few small lenses would be nice
)douglasf13 wrote:
It would likely have to be something like the largest mount that we've ever seen for 135, and there would still be issues with having the rear element so close to the sensor. There are inherent advantages to fixed lens cameras. Just think how large the Zeiss 24/1.8 is for Nex, and that is only designed for aps-c.
I don't think they have to make the mount any bigger, the issue is how low angle rays interact with the sensor and it's toppings, some R&D is all it should take to eliminate or reduce the color shifting that the 7 was effected by, like I said before the FF NEX camcorder was actually quite good and that was a while ago, I'm sure progress has been made.
At any rate lets not jump to conclusions till its released.
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:02 AM
p.4 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Pricing guess:
$3500-$4000 for the body,
Zeiss lenses from $1200-$1800
Sony lenses from $500-$1000
$3500-$4000 for the body,
Zeiss lenses from $1200-$1800
Sony lenses from $500-$1000
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:08 AM
p.4 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
The VG-900 has all kinds of issues with M wides, and that was only a year ago. Improving an aps-c sensor to work with M lenses is one thing, but a FF sensor is an entirely different ball game, and I don't see Sony spending the R&D on such a thing. M240-like performance would be the minimum acceptable performance, to me, and I doubt we'll see anything close to that.
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:09 AM
p.4 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
So since we're talking rumors here, there was another one about sony working on organic-based sensor tech (like Fuji). Would a new type of sensor perhaps influence performance (especially if it doesn't require microlenses the way standard cmos does now? I guess I'm thinking about something behaving more like a flat film plane and less light a digital light well (which is my understanding of current sensor tech).
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:15 AM
p.4 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
edwardkaraa wrote:
Don't forget that Sony is rumored to go AA-less in the next generation Alpha and Nex bodies, so I have good hopes about the sensor performance with RF lenses.
Is there a consensus that poor RF performance is due to the AA-filter? Not AF phase detection hybriding or other stuff...
If so I too have good hope
(as long as they dont over-pixlify it, the RX1 seem to be in the right neighborhood)
Don't forget that Sony is rumored to go AA-less in the next generation Alpha and Nex bodies, so I have good hopes about the sensor performance with RF lenses.
Is there a consensus that poor RF performance is due to the AA-filter? Not AF phase detection hybriding or other stuff...
If so I too have good hope
(as long as they dont over-pixlify it, the RX1 seem to be in the right neighborhood)
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:26 AM
p.4 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
corposant wrote:
Pricing guess:
$3500-$4000 for the body,
Zeiss lenses from $1200-$1800
Sony lenses from $500-$1000
Could be, at least for AF.
The Contax G line will look very tasty even the more expensive ones. For biggies and fast ones Contax CY line will make sense, and possibly more sense than on todays NEXes as it probably wont be a smaller cam than the NEX 7.
Pricing guess:
$3500-$4000 for the body,
Zeiss lenses from $1200-$1800
Sony lenses from $500-$1000
Could be, at least for AF.
The Contax G line will look very tasty even the more expensive ones. For biggies and fast ones Contax CY line will make sense, and possibly more sense than on todays NEXes as it probably wont be a smaller cam than the NEX 7.
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:32 AM
p.4 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
wfrank wrote:
Is there a consensus that poor RF performance is due to the AA-filter? Not AF phase detection hybriding or other stuff...
If so I too have good hope
(as long as they dont over-pixlify it, the RX1 seem to be in the right neighborhood)
Everything from sensor toppings and microlenses to the pixel design needs to be taken into account. Here is more about the M240 sensor: link
edwardkaraa wrote
Don't forget that Sony is rumored to go AA-less in the next generation Alpha and Nex bodies, so I have good hopes about the sensor performance with RF lenses.If so I too have good hope
(as long as they dont over-pixlify it, the RX1 seem to be in the right neighborhood)
Everything from sensor toppings and microlenses to the pixel design needs to be taken into account. Here is more about the M240 sensor: link
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:42 AM
p.4 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Count me in the not-having-high-hopes group for RF lenses to work well on this FF NEX, though I would dearly LOVE to be wrong. The fact that the Touit 12mm has no colour shift at all proves that the issue can be solved at the lens design level, so I expect that camera to come with some Zeiss glass. Besides, why would Sony go out of its way to make its camera work well with other people's lenses, except its partner Zeiss'? This would only make people buy more M-mount lenses to work on whichever camera worked best at any give time. The exact opposite of good marketing, whereby you want to lock your customers into your system...
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:44 AM
p.4 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Wfrank, what Douglas said
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:46 AM
p.4 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Depends if they want to make money on the bodies or the lenses. Ricoh went the body route, Sony... I'm not sure.
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:46 AM
p.4 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Philippe, you're probably right, but I hope you're wrong 
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:48 AM
p.4 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
FlyPenFly wrote:
Depends if they want to make money on the bodies or the lenses. Ricoh went the body route, Sony... I'm not sure.
I think Sony sold a lot of Nex bodies because of the lens adaptability. Profit on lenses is higher, but people tend to upgrade cameras more frequently, so not a bad thing in the long run.
Depends if they want to make money on the bodies or the lenses. Ricoh went the body route, Sony... I'm not sure.
I think Sony sold a lot of Nex bodies because of the lens adaptability. Profit on lenses is higher, but people tend to upgrade cameras more frequently, so not a bad thing in the long run.
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:50 AM
p.4 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I think Sony isn't sure either... though it sounds like they maybe going through a general reboot
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:50 AM
p.4 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I think this camera will be good with native lenses, SLR legacy lenses, and some M standard and longer lenses, which would still give a lot of options. It seems optimistic to think that it will behave well with most M lenses wider than 50mm (and I'm not even sure that all 50mm lenses will be out of the woods.) Granted, it depends on what someone deems as acceptable performance.
I thought some of my NEX cameras were pretty good with M lenses, until I bought an M9, and realized how much more even across the frame the performance was, despite the larger sensor size.
I thought some of my NEX cameras were pretty good with M lenses, until I bought an M9, and realized how much more even across the frame the performance was, despite the larger sensor size.
Jul 09, 2013 at 12:08 PM
p.4 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
since Sony needs to make new lenses anyway, why not use microlenses so they can use less telecentric designs themselves?
however, if they are going to make a >2k nex theyve got believe that a lot of their potential customer base is going to own Leica or Zeiss RF lenses. they have to decide if they are willing to sell less bodies to get those people to buy Sony Zeiss lenses or sell more bodies but lose out on the lenses when the guy who owns a 35 Lux FLE decides he doesnt really need that new Zeiss 35.
however, if they are going to make a >2k nex theyve got believe that a lot of their potential customer base is going to own Leica or Zeiss RF lenses. they have to decide if they are willing to sell less bodies to get those people to buy Sony Zeiss lenses or sell more bodies but lose out on the lenses when the guy who owns a 35 Lux FLE decides he doesnt really need that new Zeiss 35.
Jul 09, 2013 at 12:10 PM
p.4 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I have a feeling that the body will cost around $3,000-$3,500 and lenses will be $500-1,500. I just have this feeling that after so much anticipation and the high standards that were set but the RX1, this has letdown written all over it. I'm sure it'll be a fine system but our expectations are sky high after what we saw the RX1 do. Even a small hunt of noise at ISO12,800 will have the naysayers screaming 'See its overpriced!'.
The expectations are going to be tilt screen, gorgeous EVF, IBIS, GPS, wifi, great battery life, no issues with WA lens, no distortion, no magenta cast, no CA, 1.8 aperture primes, fast 2.8 zooms all in a tiny package. When it misses one of those we'll be screaming that the system's not mature.
The expectations are going to be tilt screen, gorgeous EVF, IBIS, GPS, wifi, great battery life, no issues with WA lens, no distortion, no magenta cast, no CA, 1.8 aperture primes, fast 2.8 zooms all in a tiny package. When it misses one of those we'll be screaming that the system's not mature.
Jul 09, 2013 at 12:12 PM
p.4 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
philber wrote:
Count me in the not-having-high-hopes group for RF lenses to work well on this FF NEX, though I would dearly LOVE to be wrong. The fact that the Touit 12mm has no colour shift at all proves that the issue can be solved at the lens design level, so I expect that camera to come with some Zeiss glass. Besides, why would Sony go out of its way to make its camera work well with other people's lenses, except its partner Zeiss'? This would only make people buy more M-mount lenses to work on whichever camera worked best at any...Show more →
Agreed, although how much larger would the Touit 12mm be when scaled up to an 18mm FF lens? If they keep the same NEX mount, it'll have to be a pretty long lens. If they make the mount larger, then you've got a fatter, and, likely, shorter lens. Either way, with their current sensor tech, we're talking about pretty large, native lenses, which starts to really hamper the whole size advantage thing. That's probably why Sony and Fuji chose aps-c in the first place with NEX and X.
Count me in the not-having-high-hopes group for RF lenses to work well on this FF NEX, though I would dearly LOVE to be wrong. The fact that the Touit 12mm has no colour shift at all proves that the issue can be solved at the lens design level, so I expect that camera to come with some Zeiss glass. Besides, why would Sony go out of its way to make its camera work well with other people's lenses, except its partner Zeiss'? This would only make people buy more M-mount lenses to work on whichever camera worked best at any...Show more →
Agreed, although how much larger would the Touit 12mm be when scaled up to an 18mm FF lens? If they keep the same NEX mount, it'll have to be a pretty long lens. If they make the mount larger, then you've got a fatter, and, likely, shorter lens. Either way, with their current sensor tech, we're talking about pretty large, native lenses, which starts to really hamper the whole size advantage thing. That's probably why Sony and Fuji chose aps-c in the first place with NEX and X.
Jul 09, 2013 at 12:15 PM