As a former R9 user in film days and with some of the best R glass methodically collected over the eons (28 Elmarit v.2, 90 AA, 100 Makro APO, 180 Elmarit APO, 280 Telyt APO), I do hope it offers a more viable solution than the $10k M240 (body+lens adapter+grip+EVF).
I have little interest mastering a RF at this point in my life...
f.hayek wrote:
As a former R9 user in film days and with some of the best R glass collected over the eons (28 Elmarit v.2, 90 AA, 100 Makro APO, 180 Elmarit APO, 280 Telyt APO), I do hope it offers a more viable solution than the $10k M240 (body+lens adapter+grip+EVF).
I have little interest mastering a RF at this point in my life...
It likely will be better than the M240. If only because if it comes entirely from in-house it's likely to be derived from the X2's processing chain and that has an acceptable LV implementation.
It likely won't provide as good a solution as a NEX-7 or X-E1 with regular and SpeedBooster R adapters. Or for that matter an A99 with a (lot) of Leitax conversions (frankly I wonder why nobody has come up with R and C/Y total mount conversions for the A99 body).
Maybe because only a few people bought or are buying the A99.
mawz wrote:
It likely will be better than the M240. If only because if it comes entirely from in-house it's likely to be derived from the X2's processing chain and that has an acceptable LV implementation.
It likely won't provide as good a solution as a NEX-7 or X-E1 with regular and SpeedBooster R adapters. Or for that matter an A99 with a (lot) of Leitax conversions (frankly I wonder why nobody has come up with R and C/Y total mount conversions for the A99 body).
Sorry, After using the RX1 if the M Mini is anything but full frame, i have absolutely no interest
Sorry this comment doesn't add a whole lot of value to this thread!
lovinglife wrote:
Sorry, After using the RX1 if the M Mini is anything but full frame, i have absolutely no interest
Sorry this comment doesn't add a whole lot of value to this thread!
Well, it touches on the competitive pressure that Leica may be feeling from the RX1 so it will be interesting to see if this "Mini" is a reaction to that. When you have the LeicaRumors admin saying that he basically chose the RX1 instead of a Leica, maybe Leica should take notice?
"#4 New compact full frame camera similar to the Sony RX1. This options makes a lot sense. I believe with the RX1, Sony has stolen a small chunk of potential M buyers from Leica (I am one of them) and Leica may have decided to compete directly in that segment."
I would be shocked if Leica came out with an in-house produced, zoom based fixed lens APS or larger camera. To me, that would seem to go against what they are primarily known for - no compromise IQ utilizing prime lenses. It would seem to also go against the idea of "mini" since a zoom is going to be larger than a prime - and probably much slower as well.
Hmm, gone for about a week and something new to speculate about!
I'd like to see Leica improve the Ricoh GXR. Only stipulation from me would be they keep the truly silent electronic shutter option.
But really, I would like to see Leica surprise us with a FF CSC option, that might potentially cannibalize sales from the M240, but would address a market that hasn't yet been satisfied by the mainstream brands, such as Sony... but I also suspect the timing for such is too soon after the M240. APS-C would be the safer alternative, though would disappoint many here. One would at least expect it to work perfectly with RF lenses.
In 2011 Leica CEO Alfred Schopf revealed plans to announce a compact system camera at Photokina 2012 in a bid to compete with the likes of Panasonic, Sony, Samsung and Olympus. He told a journalist, “We are looking into that… it’s more than an idea… You will see something at the next Photokina.” Then came the announcement of the M Monochrom and absolutely no talk of a possible compact system camera. What’s going on?
We know that Leica has a lot of room to cover additional market fields. If you look at our current portfolio we have the X2, andthen we have the M9 and the M9-P. Price-wise there is a huge gap from €2,000 to €6,000. With the economic growth of Leica we are also aiming to fill these gaps with additional products. On the other hand I cannot make any statement about future products right now because it would be much too early. But it is our aim, our goal to have additional products and to extend our portfolio.
"...as for what Leica have planned, let's just say it's very exciting and shows they are definitely serious about photographers and not just the affluent status-seekers."
Humour first: Ron, you may be the first to make this statement, which reflects how far we have come in a short time, and how fast the market is moving:
'a market that hasn't yet been satisfied by the *mainstream* brands, such as Sony'.
Leica have a huge unrealised advantage in R glass but I fear that door has closed, now that compact MILC will gain the ascendancy, first in the minds of enthusiasts then the overall non-pro market.
If they do not make either a RX1 style camera, or the huge story of a small bodied M240 sensor ILC, they might be wasting their time on the sidelines of the main game.
Really they need to be bold, they have all the requisites in the peerless lens lineups...and you can almost feel the market taking shape for a compact full frame M lens camera.
To return to the top, there is no doubt Sony will not rest after playing catchup with Alpha DSLR for years, they have the opposite advantage of EVF/electronics/sensor. They have actually abandoned this whole line for all of 2013.
philip_pj wrote:
To return to the top, there is no doubt Sony will not rest after playing catchup with Alpha DSLR for years, they have the opposite advantage of EVF/electronics/sensor. They have actually abandoned this whole line for all of 2013.
To be exact, Sony has chosen to do the same thing they did when the SLT's were introduced and killed insufficiently improved products in the pipeline in favour of a wait and some more advanced products. The difference is this time they told us, at least to some extent (via likely orchestrated leaks), rather than leaving everyone hanging for more than a year as they did with the stillborn A7x0 and the extra year to the A77.
I don't think anyone who was paying attention to the tech thought that the SLT's were anything other than an interim solution between the conventional DSLR and some sort of hybrid AF Mirrorless with an SLR mount. I don't think anybody expected the duration to be 1.5 generations though, but rather something longer.
Philip: I look at Sony as a major consumer electronics company with broad name recognition, therefore mainstream. I'm ignoring their relatively brief history in 'advanced' photography through the acquisition of Minolta and current third place (market share) standing in the general photography rankings.
I certainly hope Leica will be bold and announce a FF MILC, even if it upsets some M240 early adopters and potentially impacts sales of that camera. But if they do, I don't expect it to be unanimously desired... overlooking what will certainly be deemed an 'excessive' price, it probably won't include an AF solution, which so many seem to expect for so much money. Therefore it will be relegated to a niche within a niche, but that's fine since it's where Leica exists. And they would be first and gain some benefit from that alone.
Considering the 'mini' is situated (by price?) between the M and X cameras, what can one get for $3k-5k? (and where will it fall in that range?) In Leica-land, is that a high enough price point to include a FF sensor? Leica also surprised many of us by holding the M240 price on par with the M9 when many were predicting $9K-10k, so it could happen. My cynicism though leans towards an APS-C interchangeable M-mount-compatible camera with *maybe* a few dedicated Summarit-like, and even more compact, entry level lenses designed specifically for APS-C coverage. I don't necessarily think this would be a bad thing if well thought out.
rscheffler wrote:
But if they do, I don't expect it to be unanimously desired... overlooking what will certainly be deemed an 'excessive' price, it probably won't include an AF solution, which so many seem to expect for so much money. Therefore it will be relegated to a niche within a niche, but that's fine since it's where Leica exists. And they would be first and gain some benefit from that alone.
this is what i would really like them to introduce, i'm pretty sure it won't happen though.
rscheffler wrote:
I certainly hope Leica will be bold and announce a FF MILC, even if it upsets some M240 early adopters and potentially impacts sales of that camera.
Would they really? RF aficianados are a curious and devoted breed drawn to that experience, very different from pure EVF with focus-peaking, though they can now do both on the M240, if only to have true macro, telephoto and zoom options. WIth EVF only, Leica is addressing an audience that is in the process or has already gone elsewhere.
Leica also surprised many of us by holding the M240 price on par with the M9 when many were predicting $9K-10k, so it could happen.
M240($6,950)+EVF($550)+multifunctional grip($900)+ R-to-M adapter ($300).....$8,700 before tax, shipping....
rscheffler wrote:
....My cynicism though leans towards an APS-C interchangeable M-mount-compatible camera with *maybe* a few dedicated Summarit-like, and even more compact, entry level lenses designed specifically for APS-C coverage. I don't necessarily think this would be a bad thing if well thought out.
Agreed, but if this is what they do announce I don't see any benefit over say the Fuji X-system, which is APS-C and offers amazing APS-C coverage primes, like the 35 1.4.
Now, if it were FF mirrorless interchangeable, that would be an entirely different story and then I think you would see many of us Fuji/Sony/Oly/Pany mirrorless users taking a close look at what Leica is offering here.
michael49 wrote:
Agreed, but if this is what they do announce I don't see any benefit over say the Fuji X-system, which is APS-C and offers amazing APS-C coverage primes, like the 35 1.4.
it could (one would think) handle rangefinder wides much better than fuji or sony presently do. that would be worth a lot to me, but not as much as they'll probably ask.
rscheffler wrote:
....I would like to see Leica surprise us with a FF CSC option, that might potentially cannibalize sales from the M240, but would address a market that hasn't yet been satisfied by the mainstream brands, such as Sony... but I also suspect the timing for such is too soon after the M240. APS-C would be the safer alternative, though would disappoint many here. One would at least expect it to work perfectly with RF lenses.
I don't think a Leica FF CSC will create a glut for M240. Those after a rangefinder shooting experience will always go for the M-E or M240 anyway, and how many camera bodies can one photographer have? Two or maybe three? But if you create a new FF CSC market and bring in a new group of photographers, they might end up buying a few new Leica lenses? You might buy one camera, but most likely you would have more than one lens? Give consumers what is missing in the market, ie full frame CSC, a market which doesn't yet exist and Leica reclaims bragging rights for first xxx type of camera/feature. Furthermore, CSC cameras could actually be less of a problem to maintain and actually save Leica on warranty repairs/labor needed to constantly align RF and lenses, thus possibly freeing up service tech labor to provide more profitable a-la carte add ons.
On the other hand, if the Mini is a fixed lens camera, I think it has to be a full frame solution with some other feature that we have not seen, possibly a built in view finder/ EVF? There is already a X100s with VF and a full frame RX1. It has to be different enough for Leica to say they are number #1 or first to market with such and such a feature?
Or it could be a slightly revamped X2 to revitalize the X range due to the fact that everyone else now has an APS-C pocket camera (Fuji. Ricoh, Nikon, Canon, etc) and the X2 is probably in need of a refresh?
But I suspect, it could also be a luxury version of the upcoming Panasonic L camera?
