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Archive 2013 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

deepbluejh
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p.4 #1 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

gdanmitchell wrote:
The perceived magnitude of any given improvement in a new product reaches its peak in the week before it is available, sustains for some months or years after that, and then declines as reality sets in and the things is largely just...

... another fine lens, camera, etc. It is probably better than the old thing in virtually all cases, but most often is not quite the life-changing event that we might imagine it will be.

Again, as almost always, gear seduction seems to create some very strange thought patterns. These include over-estimating the magnitude of the improvement, and sometimes disappointment that...Show more →

Excellent post. Agreed 100%

May 20, 2013 at 08:12 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #2 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

I did not write the majority of the material that your quote attributes to me. I did write the following.

gdanmitchell wrote:
The perceived magnitude of any given improvement in a new product reaches its peak in the week before it is available, sustains for some months or years after that, and then declines as reality sets in and the things is largely just...

... another fine lens, camera, etc. It is probably better than the old thing in virtually all cases, but most often is not quite the life-changing event that we might imagine it will be.

Again, as almost always, gear seduction seems to create some very strange thought patterns. These include over-estimating the magnitude of the improvement, and sometimes disappointment that...Show more →

May 20, 2013 at 08:27 AM

retrofocus
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p.4 #3 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

Mescalamba wrote:
5DMK3 is what 5DMK2 was supposed to be. Maybe not worlds difference, but seems pretty usable to me. If you need that AF. Otherwise, nope nothing that important.

Unless you like to shoot video, cause frankly even as Im photographer, ability to shoot RAW video sparkled interest in me.

I couldn't agree more with this statement! And I can say that I used the MkIII just recently intensively earlier this month for more than two weeks on a vacation where one of my relatives borrowed it to me. AF is the big visible upgrade of the MkIII - most of the time during my trip I didn't even need AF since I shot mostly with my tilt shift lens. But I had a few situations where I shot with my 50/1.4 at f/1.4 and the focus spot was edge on, something where I always had trouble with my MkII.

IQ-wise at lower ISO numbers (the highest I used on the camera during my shooting with it was ISO 640) there is no difference at all compared to the MkII. Since the sensor is alike, the file size is very similar, too. No surprises here.

What I also enjoyed in the MkIII is the 100% viewfinder and sometimes the electronic leveler on the display which was very useful to keep my camera with attached tilt shift lens aligned correctly.

Since I don't shoot weddings, events, rarely portraits and no sports, I can not justify to upgrade from my MkII to the MkIII. For landscapes, architecture, fine art, and macro the MkII is simply as good. I will wait for the next generation of FF cameras which hopefully will give me visible improvements in the sensor itself.

May 20, 2013 at 08:35 AM

abqnmusa
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p.4 #4 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

I upgraded from 5D II to 5D III

I see these obvious benefits
-- much better autofocus with 5D III; especially with birds in flight and action
-- autofocus at F8 is a huge win for me - now use 400mm F5.6 + 1.4X III TC
-- silent shutter option is quite useful on occasion
-- GPS option is a big win - I like the ease of GEO tagging images

The above improvements were worth the upgrade cost.

I see little change in image quality. 5D II has excellent image quality.
Unless you count all the in-focus 5D III birding shots as improved image quality.

May 20, 2013 at 08:38 AM

Peter Figen
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p.4 #5 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

Don't forget that this is the the person who, a few short weeks ago, complained bitterly about how overpriced the 5DMKIII was and how he would never pay the going rate. So, he picked a used one up for $2500 and apparently it isn't really worth that to him either, so he has to find something else to complain about - that the III really isn't much better than the II after all.

Having used the III for the last couple of months, the improvements, while not overwhelming taken one at a time, all add up to a very solid improvement, resulting in a far more refined product that is far more intuitive to use than the camera it replaced. It's a camera that grows on you each time you use it as it shows you how many things it not only does exceedingly well, but how it does those things virtually effortlessly.

While no camera is perfect, this one is a perfect blend of features, ergonomics and performance for the price. Maybe the OP just hasn't used it enough to appreciate that yet.

May 20, 2013 at 08:42 AM

PhilDrinkwater
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p.4 #6 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

dhphoto wrote:
Was that in reply to me Phil?

If so you are quite right, I don't often use my 5D2 off a tripod so the 5D3 advantages aren't as apparent but when I do shoot social stuff the 5D3 is way better

The actual IQ between the 2 & 3 is really very similar though, don't you think?

No. OP - it's a wedding photographers dream camera IMO...

Past ISO1600 there's a considerable difference between the two but up to there there's not a lot of difference.

Edited on May 20, 2013 at 08:52 AM · View previous versions

May 20, 2013 at 08:50 AM

retrofocus
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p.4 #7 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

Peter Figen wrote:
Don't forget that this is the the person who, a few short weeks ago, complained bitterly about how overpriced the 5DMKIII was and how he would never pay the going rate. So, he picked a used one up for $2500 and apparently it isn't really worth that to him either, so he has to find something else to complain about - that the III really isn't much better than the II after all.

Having used the III for the last couple of months, the improvements, while not overwhelming taken one at a time, all add up to a very solid...Show more →

After using for a while the MkIII (see my post above) on two occasions for several weeks, I can see that it is an improvement for some. But I did certainly not see that the ergonomics were better (the MkIII is a tiny bit bulkier, but it was sitting in my hand as well as its predecessor) and even I had no trouble to find my way through its menus, I can't say it was more intuitive that the MkII. In fact I like the way to magnify photos on the camera screen better in the MkII - in the MkIII you have to press the zoom function on the left camera side first and then use the wheel on the right top camera side to zoom in or out. Something you get used to, but I didn't see it as an ergonomical improvement. The MkIII is a nice transition step to what will hopefully follow, the MkIV.

May 20, 2013 at 08:51 AM

Gunzorro
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p.4 #8 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

evertdoorn wrote:
2012: 5D3, 600EX, new 24-70.

Thank you, Jesus. Seems heaven exists, after all.

That does seem like an outstanding combo! Each of those components is a incremental upgrade over the preceding models, and the sum seems greater than the parts. I can say that I get by with 5D2, 580 EX II, and original 24-70L. And I do. But when you put that new trio together, its formidable and enviable. I don't see that as sticker pride for anyone who can afford it -- that seems like a big step forward if that is your main focal range.

(People have noticed that Nikon owners have quieted way down about AF and flash superiority these days, right? Those were two of the main reasons Nikon owners considered their systems superior to Canon. Now it's shifted to MP and DR superiority, but that is thanks to Sony, and may be matched by Canon in the not too distant future. The point is that Canon is making strides that are significant in still photography, while they run away with affordable high quality video.)

May 20, 2013 at 09:00 AM

form
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p.4 #9 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

I'm a wedding photographer, but it's not my dream camera. It's pretty rounded overall, but the AF system isn't nearly as perfect as many people are claiming.

The consistency of AF accuracy in dim situations isn't much (if any) better than my 5d2 with center point, and outer points are better only with AF assist. The biggest benefits I notice for AF are outer points are more consistent in good light, and they can be used for tracking better in good/average light. In low light, they don't track well because they don't lock on for AI servo, forcing One Shot just like in the 5d2. I am not sure of direct comparison, but I tried to use the 5d3 almost exclusively for the really dark shots in the wedding two days ago because I expect a slightly better high ISO noise and I wanted to test the camera. Silent shutter mode is the second most significant improvement, I have been leaving it on all the time and so I am sacrificing that slightly faster shutter lag over the 5d2.

AF speed is, afaik, about the same as 5d2. No difference there, maybe less of that "delay" in dim light with AF assist before the AF motor turns on and begins to focus? Otherwise about the same...

Video mode improvements just don't matter to me as much since I don't use my camera for video...

And I haven't, by any means, obtained a full familiarity with the tracking system. Mostly used it for dancing and walking people (my main subjects), and I didn't use it for the last processional because I haven't found it more reliable than my 5d2s so far, and I am more familiar with my 5d2s' performance...and I left the tracking setup in the default setting for sensitivity, etc. So, as of yet, I don't really trust the AI servo enough.

I tend to like the one-push zoom of the review button, but it IS a pita to have to press it, then zoom out with the scroll wheel. And it's not nearly as useful if I happened to focus-recompose.

What I would like in the next version: Better shadow noise, better low light AF locking ability with AI servo.

May 20, 2013 at 09:19 AM

pKai
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p.4 #10 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

My .02

If you don't need the 5D3 for action and/or high ISO, the "upgrade" may feel like a dud. Outside those two areas, the 5D2 is 99% what the 5D3 is.

I borrowed one from CPS and came to that conclusion for my shooting situations. All my action work is on crop bodies (1D4, 7D) and that's how I like it. My 5D2 does underwater and non or slow-moving terrestrial subjects. I did not see any improvement (read: images that would sell more or for more) to justify the $2k upgrade plus underwater housing (several thou$and more)....

Either way: I don't think crucifying the OP for coming to a different conclusion than most people is the thing to do. If you disagree, then crucify me too...

...

Edited on May 20, 2013 at 09:35 AM · View previous versions

May 20, 2013 at 09:30 AM

chez
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p.4 #11 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

Gunzorro wrote:
(People have noticed that Nikon owners have quieted way down about AF and flash superiority these days, right? Those were two of the main reasons Nikon owners considered their systems superior to Canon. Now it's shifted to MP and DR superiority, but that is thanks to Sony, and may be matched by Canon in the not too distant future. The point is that Canon is making strides that are significant in still photography, while they run away with affordable high quality video.)

Could it be the Nikon folk are just out taking photos rather than trying to continually justify their cameras? Just a thought.

May 20, 2013 at 09:31 AM

Rajan Parrikar
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p.4 #12 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

I have had the 5D Mark III for almost a year now. It is superior to 5DII in almost every respect, some things are a great deal better, others less so. After using 5DIII there is no way I can go back to 5DII.

May 20, 2013 at 09:46 AM

Gunzorro
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p.4 #13 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

chez wrote:
Could it be the Nikon folk are just out taking photos rather than trying to continually justify their cameras? Just a thought.

No Chez, it's still pretty nasty at the Nikon forum, just an added element of gloating now, after years of sniffing the dog ahead. Ha-ha!

May 20, 2013 at 10:01 AM

aladyforty
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p.4 #14 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

If I could afford one Id buy a 5DIII, however from all the threads on different forums I've seen, I can pick little difference between the image quality to 5DII even when they are posted full size. I've used my 5DII in very low light for wedding and have managed to do pretty well without flash but the improvements the 5DIII adds would be worth the money if I was doing a lot of low light shots, most of the weddings I've done are outdoors and I have a 7D and 1DIII for action, cant justify the purchase right now, maybe in the future when price drops though.

May 20, 2013 at 10:02 AM

form
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p.4 #15 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

Right now still shooting with 1x 5d3 and 3x 5d2, and I find them easily interchangeable. I have no problem going back and forth because the performance differences aren't huge. The size of the focus system and shutter sound are the biggest differences I am feeling while shooting. The viewfinder...basically it's close enough to be about identical. Just a few minor differences in ergo, button system, etc.

Another thing I noticed: 5d3 definitely doesn't handle focusing on backlit subjects with flare in the frame any better than the 5d2. Still doesn't like to lock if there's a lot of flare.

So uh...I will be looking at the 5d3 files and comparing fairly soon here. Probably within the next week when I get to editing the weddings I shot with 5d3.

I'm not foreseeing any need to run and sell my 5d2s to be replaced by 5d3s. 1 is enough for now.

May 20, 2013 at 10:10 AM

pKai
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p.4 #16 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

form wrote:
Probably within the next week when I get to editing the weddings I shot with 5d3.

Is this the shooting you mostly do?

I ask because if the answer is yes, then I see your point completely.

I used to very successfully do weddings back in the day with 3x Canon F1, 24mm, 50mm, 200mm primes, Vivitar 285 strobes. Only 2 out of the 3 had motors. Compared to that, even a 5DC (much less a 2 or 3) system is like a Formula 1 car compared to a bicycle.

I stopped doing weddings in the film/MF days because I hated everything about doing weddings so I have never used anything remotely modern for this type of event..... Given that I did quite well with my manual-everything system, I would think that a 5D3 would not (necessarily?) bring a monumental improvement to the table.

IOW: IMHO, a wedding is not the type of shoot that would make shine a camera like the 5D3 -- obviously built to address the 5D2's action and low light shortcomings. Sorry, a bride's first dance with her decrepit new father-in-law is not "action".....

Edited on May 20, 2013 at 10:23 AM · View previous versions

May 20, 2013 at 10:18 AM

nswelton
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p.4 #17 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

I'm a wedding photographer as well and my experience and feelings about this camera couldn't be any different. The outer points are reliable, at least to me with the way I have my camera set up. In dim situations, the AF works miles better, both the center and outer points. AF tracking works reliably in dim lighting as well. I don't shoot 1 shot unless I have to use an AF assist, which is 40-50 percent of the time during receptions instead of 100 percent of the time during receptions. ISO performance past 1600 is lots better than the 5d2, particularly with regards to chroma noise, blotchiness, and color fidelity. And the RAW files themselves don't have the same weird pink hues that the 5d2 did. Add to that better weather sealing, dual card slots and all the other minor improvements and, at least for me, the 5d3 is about as perfect a camera as I could ask for. I hated the 5d2 and left it in my camera bag as a backup while I shot with my pair of 5d classics. Now I have a 5d classic as a backup and a pair of 5d3s.

form wrote:
I'm a wedding photographer, but it's not my dream camera. It's pretty rounded overall, but the AF system isn't nearly as perfect as many people are claiming.

The consistency of AF accuracy in dim situations isn't much (if any) better than my 5d2 with center point, and outer points are better only with AF assist. The biggest benefits I notice for AF are outer points are more consistent in good light, and they can be used for tracking better in good/average light. In low light, they don't track well because they don't lock on for AI servo, forcing One Shot just...Show more →

May 20, 2013 at 10:21 AM

form
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p.4 #18 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

pKai wrote:
Is this the shooting you mostly do?

I ask because if the answer is yes, then I see your point completely.

I used to very successfully do weddings back in the day with 3x Canon F1, 24mm, 50mm, 200mm primes, Vivitar 285 strobes. Only 2 out of the 3 had motors. Compared to that, even a 5DC (much less a 2 or 3) system is like a Formula 1 car compared to a bicycle.

I stopped doing weddings in the film/MF days because I hated everything about doing weddings so I have never used anything remotely modern for this type of event........Show more →

Actually most in-laws...are quite active and have a vigorous step. The camera has to track these subjects moving at f/1.4-f/2ish in dark environments, and movement at those apertures is very easy to miss. It's a challenging situation. Same for all the other people dancing. Same for when someone suddenly moves toward/away from me to give etc. etc. a hug or the expression changes at an unexpected moment or something else happens...Lots of the best parts of weddings are on-the-fly.

Moving subjects walking towards the camera for processionals is another situation that demands good tracking.

The AF system is supposed to be the main advancement of the 5d3, and it is better, but not by the miles that some people say.

May 20, 2013 at 10:38 AM

PhilDrinkwater
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p.4 #19 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

form wrote:
The consistency of AF accuracy in dim situations isn't much (if any) better than my 5d2 with center point, and outer points are better only with AF assist. The biggest benefits I notice for AF are outer points are more consistent in good light, and they can be used for tracking better in good/average light. In low light, they don't track well because they don't lock on for AI servo, forcing One Shot just like in the 5d2.

Absolute rubbish. Sorry. I'm in dark conditions all of the time and ALL of the points are more accurate than the centre point on the 5d2.

In a dark church (iso3200, f2.8, 1/80th) I can use the outer points on AI servo with f2.8 lenses whereas I never could even get the 5d2 centre point working accurately enough on servo with an f1.2 lens which lets a hell of a lot more light in! It might miss 1 shot in 10, which is way more than I used to get.

I've been using the 5d3 for over a year and it's a completely different camera to the 5d2. I think something is wrong with your 5d3, or something is wrong with what you're doing with it...

May 20, 2013 at 10:40 AM

chez
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p.4 #20 · 5d3...not much better than 5d2.

Gunzorro wrote:
No Chez, it's still pretty nasty at the Nikon forum, just an added element of gloating now, after years of sniffing the dog ahead. Ha-ha!

Just like most things in life, there is always a dog in front of you. Only YOU choose whether to sniff it's hind end or to just enjoy what you have.

May 20, 2013 at 10:41 AM

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