p.2 #1 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
austin.grant wrote:
On a serious note, it would be nice for a working EC, but it certainly doesn't render the Auto ISO feature "useless."
Right. It works just fine when standard exposure is what the scene needs
p.2 #2 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
Why all the hate and piss-taking? Is this Dpreview?
I can see a situation where needing a particular aperture and SS is important and the camera getting somewhere near the correct exposure by itself by using ISO would be useful, it doesn't mean I'd use it every day.
p.2 #3 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
I find this whole debate funny simply because the reason you shoot manual is to control the entire exposure. To to be clear if you want ec in manual you are not shooting manual. If you want to use ec then shoot in av or tv mode, afterall with auto iso enabled in manual thats essentially all you are doing. If I'm shoot manual with auto iso for some insane reason and not getting the exposure I want I just set the exposure myself. It's takes just as long to chimp the histogram as it does to press the iso button and flip the wheels a few times. Heck you don't even have to take your eye from the viewfinder to do this.
p.2 #4 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
If I am shooting a bird against a darkish green hedgerow and the bird is not mobile, I set the Aperture and Shutter I want, then go in to AE Micro Adjustment and minus the compensation by 3/4 of a stop and all I can say it works for me, and it takes 2 seconds to do!
And I don't use all the time, only when there is a need,
p.2 #5 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
robbymack wrote:
I find this whole debate funny simply because the reason you shoot manual is to control the entire exposure. To to be clear if you want ec in manual you are not shooting manual. If you want to use ec then shoot in av or tv mode, afterall with auto iso enabled in manual thats essentially all you are doing. If I'm shoot manual with auto iso for some insane reason and not getting the exposure I want I just set the exposure myself. It's takes just as long to chimp the histogram as it does to press the iso button and flip the wheels a few times. Heck you don't even have to take your eye from the viewfinder to do this. ...Show more →
You're absolutely correct... manual means manual and that means I take control of the aperture, shutter and ISO to get the desired output
Although there are certain instances where the auto ISO in manual would help a lot of wildlift shooters... but I'm not into shooting nature and wildlife.
p.2 #6 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
danb121 wrote:
You're absolutely correct... manual means manual and that means I take control of the aperture, shutter and ISO to get the desired output
You think you do, you have to use the ISO that matches your Aperture and Shutter that you have chosen! Tell me I am wrong?
p.2 #7 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
robbymack wrote:
I find this whole debate funny simply because the reason you shoot manual is to control the entire exposure. To to be clear if you want ec in manual you are not shooting manual.
Fully manual mode means manual SS, manual aperture and manual ISO.
M + Auto ISO means manual SS, manual aperture and auto ISO. Not fully manual. That's why EC should be available.
Exposure is the sum of 3 variables. Whenever you have a floating variable, you should have EC.
Traditional Av mode is the sum of aperture (constant), ISO (constant) and SS (variable). Tv mode is the sum of SS (constant), ISO (constant) and aperture (variable). Everyone is OK with EC when it is about Av and Tv. However, there are some debating the need for EC when it is about M + Auto ISO. This puzzles me.
p.2 #9 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
ciprian.trofin wrote:
Fully manual mode means manual SS, manual aperture and manual ISO.
M + Auto ISO means manual SS, manual aperture and auto ISO. Not fully manual. That's why EC should be available.
Exposure is the sum of 3 variables. Whenever you have a floating variable, you should have EC.
Traditional Av mode is the sum of aperture (constant), ISO (constant) and SS (variable). Tv mode is the sum of SS (constant), ISO (constant) and aperture (variable). Everyone is OK with EC when it is about Av and Tv. However, there are some debating the need for EC when it is about M + Auto ISO. This puzzles me. ...Show more →
I agree with you.
Maybe I just haven't read the right press or the right part of the manual (the fact manual mode does this is a single sentence at the bottom of a page) plus this does not work the same way on any of my other Canons including a 5D2, so this *IS* new to the 5 series, if not to the 1 series.
But the feature is there, so being able to use exposure compensation with it would be useful. However, it doesn't, so never mind.
p.2 #10 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
dhphoto wrote:
Yes, of course it does but it's a feature I didn't even know the camera had until today, it's not the way I usually work.
There will be occasions when it, together with RAW for some exposure latitude might be useful.
I think it's a very useful feature, it's just that it would be that much more useful if I could use EC. I should add that I use it on a 7D, so I have to avoid under exposing at all costs! If EC was available I would use this mode a hell of a lot. As it is I still use it, but only if I'm confident the metering will be OK.
I also don't understand the hate of having an auto feature in manual mode. It's a useful feature, but doesn't warrant having its own mode for use which is the only alternative! You can still set the ISO to a value you want in manual, or you can choose auto, win-win.
p.2 #11 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
dhphoto wrote:
Embarrassing I know, but it never came up before and hasn't worked like this on any of my other cameras, but I just found out if you set the Shutter Speed and Aperture manually with Auto ISO the camera changes the ISO to what it thinks is a correct exposure!
OK, no exposure compensation but with skilful use of the metering mode (spot mode perhaps) this will be very useful.
Amazing what you can find out if you look
David
Yup. The one issue is that it locks out EC .
You could replicate it for most uses by using AutoISO Av mode instead and by setting the minimum allowed shutter speed really nice and high.... oh wait Canon marketing limited the maximum min allowed shutter speed to an a truly absurdly ridiculously uselessly low 1/250th?!?!!!! (ZERO technical reason for this, simply change a couple bytes of code and it could perfectly have allowed say 1/2500th or whatever limit).
But yeah for the 5D3 they finally unlocked it in M mode.
It's absurd that for such a little feature they are being so picayune as to slowly unlock it now over a span of over a decade. Come on Canon, get real. Rebel-lines on other products have this working for years. It such a ridiculous trivial thing.
p.2 #12 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
danb121 wrote:
You're absolutely correct... manual means manual and that means I take control of the aperture, shutter and ISO to get the desired output
Although there are certain instances where the auto ISO in manual would help a lot of wildlift shooters... but I'm not into shooting nature and wildlife.
and sports too say uneven night field lighting, sometimes the metering will get tricked too much and you'd have to go back to full manual and try to roll the shutter as players change locations but other times for some field the metering is OK (IF you could set EC that is) and it would make a lot more sense for it to jump from ISO6400 to ISO1600 and back depending whether they were in a dark corner or under light near goal, etc.
for wildlife, as you say, it can be good if bird pops in and out of different lighting, why shoot it all at ISO1600 when some could be at ISO200 with more DR
ironically by the time they finally dribble out a fully working version (of this insanely trivial to implement properly) feature they may (hope) have exmor-like sensor performance where setting the ISO doesn't even really matter much withing huge ranges of many stops, exmors are nearly "ISO-less" cameras.
p.2 #13 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
ciprian.trofin wrote:
However, there are some debating the need for EC when it is about M + Auto ISO. This puzzles me.
It is bizarre. In many cases it seems to be simply because Canon doesn't do it and since Canon is perfect and true in their eyes.... there is no need. If Canon did it now and Nikon didn't then it would be an absolute requirement though I'm sure .
p.2 #14 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
I use auto iso a lot in manual mode. Even more useful when combined with spot metering linked to AF point.
On my 1div's I couldn't care less about having no exposure comp. on the 5d3, since it doesn't have spot linked to AF point, I can see why you would want it.
p.2 #15 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
M mode with auto ISO ain't manual mode anymore. It's just another programmed mode and needs a new name and notch on the dial like IP (Intelligent Program) or FPI (Fuzzy Logic ISO).
p.2 #16 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
Gochugogi wrote:
M mode with auto ISO ain't manual mode anymore. It's just another programmed mode and needs a new name and notch on the dial like IP (Intelligent Program) or FPI (Fuzzy Logic ISO).
It is manual shutter and aperture which are the two big creative elements.
p.2 #17 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
Gochugogi wrote:
M mode with auto ISO ain't manual mode anymore. It's just another programmed mode and needs a new name and notch on the dial like IP (Intelligent Program) or FPI (Fuzzy Logic ISO).
p.2 #18 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
That's just ridiculous in my opinion.
Mahalo brother for that.
I suppose growing up shooting BW without a light meter and setting exposure based on experience has put me out of sync with the recent morphing of the language "manual mode" to include automatic features.
Yes, you select aperture and shutter speed and therefore control DOF and blur/sharpness. However, auto ISO means the camera's CPU controls the actual exposure, so it's not manual in the traditional use of the term It's merely a variation on the other semi-automatic modes like P, Av, Tv, etc. Nothing wrong with that and I welcome a new programmed mode. But needs a name descriptive of its behavior: AutoManual, Intelligent M, whatever. Manual mode used to mean you controlled all aspects of exposure, including ISO.
p.2 #20 · 5D3 has auto exposure in M, I never knew!
jj_glos wrote:
Well obviously manual mode should disable AF as well?
Creating un-needed clutter of a user interface rather than just not selecting auto ISO if you choose is madness.
An additional notch on a wheel hardly rises to the level of madness. Madness is a state of mind are reserved for acts of genocide, creation of WMD, religious war, etc. I'd describe a separation of traditional M mode from a semi-automatic version with autoISO (&EC) with terms such as clarity and convenience. And I'd gladly give up full auto mode (green square) to make more room on the dial. Digging through menus to disable/enable popular features is not clear, fast or convenient.
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