p.94 #2 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
douglasf13 wrote:
That example from sebboh seemed to be because of stitching different sky tones, which isn't really an RX1 issue.
In-camera vignetting correction in a lot of cameras can be an issue, too. I leave mine off.
no, helena is right. the toned image before the stitch is the one she was referring to. it has a very odd and distinct posterization effect.
i believe vignetting is the source of the issue, not anything related to the sensor, though the ability to dramatically push and pull the sensor probably makes us more likely to do things that cause posterization (e.g. dramatic shadow lifting will often produce strange interactions with natural and added vignetting).
edit: i encounter this type of posterization fairly regularly with toned images when i add vignetting using other cameras as well.
p.94 #7 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
sebboh wrote:
no, helena is right. the toned image before the stitch is the one she was referring to. it has a very odd and distinct posterization effect.
i believe vignetting is the source of the issue, not anything related to the sensor, though the ability to dramatically push and pull the sensor probably makes us more likely to do things that cause posterization (e.g. dramatic shadow lifting will often produce strange interactions with natural and added vignetting).
edit: i encounter this type of posterization fairly regularly with toned images when i add vignetting using other cameras as well.
I noticed that slight posterization in the sky. Traditionally, the cause is editing in 8 bit vs 16 bit and also low quality JPEG compression and resizing. Subtle gradations (such as in a sky) will obviously show the issue worse if care is not taken to avoid the above (always edit in 16bit and only convert to 8 bit as the last step such as for web posting). This is also a good place to mention that using bicubic sharper when resizing is not the best option when an image has subtle gradations (and reducing the size in Automatic will do this as well).
p.94 #8 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
Jonas B wrote:
Ok, the image with JPG compression artifacts I asked about? Or, that's what I thought it was...
it's a jpeg artifact called posterization, but not the kind that can be fixed by lowering compression in this case as near as i can tell. it's not there if i export it as 16 bit tiff in prophoto rgb, but it shows up in any jpeg.
p.94 #9 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I noticed that slight posterization in the sky. Traditionally, the cause is editing in 8 bit vs 16 bit and also low quality JPEG compression and resizing. Subtle gradations (such as in a sky) will obviously show the issue worse if care is not taken to avoid the above (always edit in 16bit and only convert to 8 bit as the last step such as for web posting). This is also a good place to mention that using bicubic sharper when resizing is not the best option when an image has subtle gradations (and reducing the size in Automatic will do this as well). ...Show more →
p.94 #10 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
I see. Then I stand corrected.
So it is not in the raw but shows up as soon as you export it into JPG format. Also when exporting to 16-bit JPG minimum compression? I don't think I ever run into it in that large scale. I have seen it, but not in an RX1 image yet, earlier but then it has been smaller details showing some colour artifacts.
EDIT: Skip my question above, I just re-read Tariq's comment above.
p.94 #11 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
Jonas B wrote:
I see. Then I stand corrected.
So it is not in the raw but shows up as soon as you export it into JPG format. Also when exporting to 16-bit JPG minimum compression? I don't think I ever run into it in that large scale. I have seen it, but not in an RX1 image yet, earlier but then it has been smaller details showing some colour artifacts.
i've not tried 16-bit jpegs just 8-bit with minimum compression. i don't believe 16-bit jpegs are an option with my version of LR?
p.94 #15 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
sebboh wrote:
oh, that's the same as i use...
Hmm, that's odd then. So you work completely from the raw in 16bit all the way through, including re-sizing using the standard Bicubic, then convert to 8bit? Maybe it does have something to do with the auto vignetting correction as Douglas mentioned if that's the case. I also leave that off.
What color space do you convert/edit in and when do you convert to SRGB? Maybe it's also causing an issue? EDIT. If you are editing in ProPhoto RGB and converting to SRGB at the very end, this should not be an issue either. hmm
p.94 #17 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Hmm, that's odd then. So you work completely from the raw in 16bit all the way through, including re-sizing using the standard Bicubic, then convert to 8bit? Maybe it does have something to do with the auto vignetting correction as Douglas mentioned if that's the case. I also leave that off.
What color space do you convert/edit in and when do you convert to SRGB? Maybe it's also causing an issue?
auto vignetting correction is always turned off on all my cameras.
my standard workflow is to do all my real processing from raw in LR then to export to 8-bit jpeg and downsize/sharpen in PS5. that is what i did to the posted version. since then i re-exported in 16-bit prophoto rgb and did my downsizing/sharpening in that, only converting to 8-bit srgb as the final step before saving the 8-bit jpeg at level 12 in PS5.
here is the original with my normal processing and here is the one processed in 16-bit prophoto till the last step.
edit: apologies to all for wasting so much space on an image thread talking about this.
p.94 #18 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
sebboh wrote:
auto vignetting correction is always turned off on all my cameras.
my standard workflow is to do all my real processing from raw in LR then to export to 8-bit jpeg and downsize/sharpen in PS5. that is what i did to the posted version. since then i re-exported in 16-bit prophoto rgb and did my downsizing/sharpening in that, only converting to 8-bit srgb as the final step before saving the 8-bit jpeg at level 12 in PS5.
here is the original with my normal processing and here is the one processed in 16-bit prophoto till the last step.
edit: apologies to all for wasting so much space on an image thread talking about this.
p.94 #20 · Sony RX1, RX1R, RX1R II and RX1R III Image Thread
sebboh wrote:
auto vignetting correction is always turned off on all my cameras.
my standard workflow is to do all my real processing from raw in LR then to export to 8-bit jpeg and downsize/sharpen in PS5. that is what i did to the posted version. since then i re-exported in 16-bit prophoto rgb and did my downsizing/sharpening in that, only converting to 8-bit srgb as the final step before saving the 8-bit jpeg at level 12 in PS5.
here is the original with my normal processing and here is the one processed in 16-bit prophoto till the last step.
edit: apologies to all for wasting so much space on an image thread talking about this.
But it has to be discussed somewhere, doesn't it?
Interesting that the artifacts still remain, to a lesser degree though, in your second version. Like Tariq I wonder if the initial colour space (ProPhoto) has something to do with it. I work in aRGB in Lightroom and Photoshop as I never really bothered with a wider gamut as I'm ignorant enough not to know what to do with it. Or maybe the colour space doesn't matter due to the PP steps taken?
