fredmiranda.com

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

3 … 10 11 end

Archive 2012 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Ian.Dobinson
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #1 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Richie S wrote:
I just think they could have made it a lot better, but like Nikon they have too much to lose from their low-end SLRs. It does give them an opening to add more though.

Olympus and Sony would seem to have them best hands down here as they are at least committed to delivering the best they can rather than this marketing compromise.

So your saying that after only the first announcement of a new series.

It took more than a couple of versions of The oly's and sony's for the could ones to come up.

And also yes Nikon and canon have more to protect in their DSLR ranges than Sony and certainly Olympus.
The m4/3 rang probably saved Olympus from going under. And Although Sony have deeper resources I would think the alpha range would not have held up on its own either.

Jul 23, 2012 at 09:47 AM

Gunzorro
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #2 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

jamesf99 -- You are consistently too harsh on this model, and lately, too harsh on Canon in general. I respect that you are an experienced Canon owner and user, and this might not be the camera for you. Still, that doesn't negate is value.

"+2 OK, so they made a small camera and put a decent sensor in it. Great..
-3 They gave it a ridiculous price. Canon has gotten stupid, but enough said.
-1 They left off controls - using the menu is not exactly a fluid operation.
-2 They left off the VF option, so you have the worst feature of today's P&S cameras, namely holding the camera at arms length to compose. Personally, I hate that...
-1 Has EF support, but at $200?"

First, for a $200 buy-in, I can use all my existing Canon EF/EF-S lenses, including TS-E, worth well over $10,000 -- that seems a pretty good deal to me, since Fuji, Sony, Oly, Samsung, and Panasonic won't let me use with their systems and retain full functionality. I'll give this a +1 for Canon.

No EVF -- I didn't ask for one. Same for built in flash. No points, plus or minus.

No law says you MUST hold at arm's length. With m4/3, I use the tensioned neck strap as a brace and wear reading glasses to focus on screen (older eyes) -- younger eyes would be fine at less than arm's length. Then, there are always supports, like tripods. We're talking about personal preferences here, not technical criteria. Again, no point.

Canon didn't leave off controls -- they put them in the touch LCD. Bravo Canon! +1

I wouldn't call $800 for the body + 22/2 lens an exceptionally high price. I'll wait a bit and see if the price comes down after the initial release. No point.

Finally, I agree with you -- the large APS-C of proven design is a great touch. +1

When I add up all these areas of interest, I find the camera coming out ahead of Sony Nex and the m4/3 crowd, for my needs or wants. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't seem to be completely alone here.

For now, I'll continue using my m4/3 bodies, along with the G10, for when I want something other than DSLR. But I'll probably get one of these "M" cameras, or a G1X, in the future.

Jul 23, 2012 at 09:49 AM

Ian.Dobinson
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #3 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Stunnaz wrote:
Wait, is this true? I heard on one of the YouTube video reviews that the flash ships with the camera, but that doesn't appear to be the case (here in the U.S) when I check what's included with the kit.

Well it's true over here (UK)
All m kits ship with the flash.
The m kit that has the 22 prime ships with the EF adapter (and the flash ). The zoom kit is without the adapter (but with flash)

Jul 23, 2012 at 09:50 AM

Mescalamba
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #4 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Canon lovers will buy it. No one else with bit of brain will do that. Theres absolutely no reason to buy it over competition.

Not sure how that Metabones adapter for NEX work right now, but if it does its capable of enabling IS and switching aperture. For focusing theres focus peaking and magnification in NEX. Soo.. no need for Canon mirrorless if you for some obscure reason want to use Canon lens (there are few lens worth it 65mm MP-E for example and TS-E lens etc.)

Jul 23, 2012 at 09:51 AM

Stunnaz
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #5 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Jul 23, 2012 at 09:56 AM

jorkata
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #6 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

deepbluejh wrote:
The way I see it, the ONLY value of this camera is for using existing EF lenses.

Hmm, I'd disagree with you here.

Thew new M has the highest sensor-size/body-size ratio of all mirrorless cameras.
That is, it's the most compact camera relative to the size of its sensor.
It's more compact than the NEX and is the same size as m4/3 - but the m4/3s have smaller sensor.

I would say that the M has two main selling points (compared to other large-sensor-compacts): compactness and phase-detect AF.

Jul 23, 2012 at 09:57 AM

Stunnaz
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #7 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Well it's true over here (UK)
All m kits ship with the flash.
The m kit that has the 22 prime ships with the EF adapter (and the flash ). The zoom kit is without the adapter (but with flash)

Hmm that's interesting. How much do those cost? Over here so far there's just one kit available, camera with the 22. It's $800 US. The new flash is $150. Here is what's included in the kit:

EOS M Digital Camera Body
EF-M 22mm f/2 STM Lens
Neck Strap EM-100DB
Battery Pack LP-E12
Battery Charger LC-E12
USB Interface Cable IFC-130U
EOS Digital Solution Disk, Camera Instruction Manual and Software Instruction Manual CD

I can't find much info on the size of the ex90 either. I already have the 270ex II and I'm wondering if the new flash is much smaller.

Jul 23, 2012 at 09:58 AM

chez
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #8 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Monito wrote:
No camera can be all cameras but that doesn't stop all the people who expect something for nothing to complain that it doesn't have their favourite feature at a below rock-bottom price.

Old news Monito. I think you have exhausted yourself on this topic.

No one is asking for everything. However, it would be nice to see some innovation from a market leader...or maybe Canon is not that leader anymore.

What I see here is a glorified P&S. Being able to attach my 24-105 onto this camera is a mute point as I want the camera to be able to be put into my jacket pocket. I don't want to carry around a case with lenses.

I have the X100 and that to me is the small, portable camera with an actual viewfinder so you can enjoy using it rather than fighting it's short comings. Composing a shot at arms length is useless. If it had a viewfinder, it might be intersting, but for now...Meh.

Jul 23, 2012 at 09:58 AM

chez
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #9 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Gunzorro wrote:
I like it, and think it has good potential. What other mirrorless system will mount EF and EF-S lenses with AF and IS compatibility?

I can see little things like no EVF or pop-up flash, but those are very minor to me, having been using some m4/3 that are the same, but unable to use my Canon EF/EF-S lenses. Like everyone, I'd like the price to come down a bit, as I'm sure it will over time.

I like the concept of it being the lens "control center".

Why would you even want to mount your EF lenses to this camera? The whole idea of a small mirrorless camera is portability. Add EF lenses and throw your portability out. If I want to use my EF lenses, I'll just grab my 5D2 with them.

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:00 AM

SoundHound
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #10 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

I just bought the Sony RX100 and it has all the IQ I need (until I pick up my FF DSLRs and F2.8 zooms) in a shirt pocket and (who can figure out all the features) possibly some extra features too. The combination of that adapter and an EOS lens or the slow, SLOW zoom and no internal flash makes no sense to me.

Some DPR reviewer said it best when he said this camera is more like a lens cap on a full size EOS lens. Except for the 35mm equivalent F2.0 lens I don't understand this camera because if you are going to carry/use it with larger lenses why not use an APS C DSLR with all its fine features for the same price?

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:02 AM

chez
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #11 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

deepbluejh wrote:
The way I see it, the ONLY value of this camera is for using existing EF lenses. If you have no desire to use EF lenses, then feel free to buy into another system and buy a completely new set of lenses.

As for the OV, I feel like integrating a decent one into a camera about the size of a deck of cards would have been a losing proposition. The VF would either be terrible, or it would be too big (which would put it into different territory) Besides, am I the only one who thinks holding something that tiny...Show more →

Why would you buy a nice small portable camera and stick this big ugly EF lens on it and have to hand hold the unbalanced system at arms length composing a shot all the while fiddling around with the touch screen to set you focus point and ajust your exposure? Seems like you need a third hand to make this usefull.

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:03 AM

lexvo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #12 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

I can see the advantages of the small size if you want to travel light, but:
- if I want to take several (EF) lenses with me, I might as well take a DSLR with that (no traveling light in this situation)
- if I want to travel really light, I could take an (advanced) P&S, with no lens changing

So for me, this would only make sense if I wanted to travel light and take several EF-M lenses with me. But then I would end up with two complete systems.

So for me, a neutral or slightly positive verdict

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:04 AM

Psalty
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #13 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Ian.Dobinson wrote:
But the flash ships WITH the kit , so it's not exactly a money making strategy.

What it does give you is the chance to put a better flash on there as well. Yes the size is increased a lot but let's face it the buit in flashes on most compact sized bodies are pretty pointless .

As for the camera itself. It looks a good effort. I will agree the price looks heavy but let's wait and see.

I'm pretty sure the flash is not included.

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:04 AM

Ian.Dobinson
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #14 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Stunnaz wrote:
Hmm that's interesting. How much do those cost? Over here so far there's just one kit available, camera with the 22. It's $800 US. The new flash is $150. Here is what's included in the kit:

EOS M Digital Camera Body
EF-M 22mm f/2 STM Lens
Neck Strap EM-100DB
Battery Pack LP-E12
Battery Charger LC-E12
USB Interface Cable IFC-130U
EOS Digital Solution Disk, Camera Instruction Manual and Software Instruction Manual CD

I can't find much info on the size of the ex90 either. I already have the 270ex II and I'm wondering if the new flash is much smaller.

Yeah I had a look at the US offering and it looks as though it's just the 22mm

Over here the pre order prices are :
Zoom kit : �769
Prime kit : �879
Lenses . Prime - �229 , zoom �269

http://www.wexphotographic.com/compact-system-cameras-canon/b3189-m37
I can't find anything on the flash or the adpter in terms of pricing but if you take those kit prices as without any discount on the lens that makes the body only �500 and the adapter �150

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Ian.Dobinson
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #15 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Psalty wrote:
I'm pretty sure the flash is not included.

Copied from the WEX website
"The Canon Speedlite 90EX Flashgun - included with all Canon EOS M kits"

And from the press relese on DPR
"Additionally, the EOS M will ship with the new Speedlite 90EX flash unit as standard. Lightweight and highly-compact, it offers a maximum guide number of nine and supports wide-angle lenses, making it an ideal general-purpose flash for everyday use. A wireless master function also allows the control of multiple flash guns wirelessly, allowing more advanced users to experiment with a range of creative lighting effects."

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Stunnaz
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #16 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Yeah I had a look at the US offering and it looks as though it's just the 22mm

Over here the pre order prices are :
Zoom kit : �769
Prime kit : �879
Lenses . Prime - �229 , zoom �269

http://www.wexphotographic.com/compact-system-cameras-canon/b3189-m37
I can't find anything on the flash or the adpter in terms of pricing but if you take those kit prices as without any discount on the lens that makes the body only �500 and the adapter �150

Thanks Ian, �879 equals $1362 US.
It's actually cheaper for us to get the body + 22mm for $850 and then add on the flash for $150 and the adapter for $200. Total is $1200.

As usual it's quite a bit cheaper here in the U.S.

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:13 AM

David Baldwin
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #17 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

Might be an excellent discreet street/candid photography camera, as well as something compact for going on holiday.

Apart from that "meh" A Rebel would perhaps AF faster, would certainly be easier to compose with (optical finder) and have better ergonomics. Probably cheaper too.

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:15 AM

DanielPaul
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #18 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

chez wrote:
Why would you even want to mount your EF lenses to this camera? The whole idea of a small mirrorless camera is portability. Add EF lenses and throw your portability out. If I want to use my EF lenses, I'll just grab my 5D2 with them.

I would think the usefulness of a compact camera than can accept EF lenses would be quite obvious.

Say I'm going on a trip and I'm bringing a full on 1D/5D camera with a few EF lenses. I want to have a backup body with me. Do I have bring a second 1D/5D? That is starting to break the bank and the back.

With the EOS-M I can:

-- Have a backup body in case of failure of my primary EOS body.
-- Have a secondary lens on the EOS-M in order to switch quickly. For example, I might have a wide-angle on my 5D w/ tripod for some landscape shots. But a 70-200 on the EOS-M is there if I see some wildlife. I could take the 5D off the tripod, swap lenses, etc. but by that time the wildlife is probably gone.
-- If the trip is more of a vacation (but I bring a big camera bag because that's my hobby), I'm able to take a break if I want. I can leave the 1D in the hotel (safe), grab the EOS-M w/ kit lens, and walk around one evening without being one of those tourists with 12+ lbs of camera gear in tow.

Yes I can do all of the above if I have 2 EOS bodies and a point and shoot. The EOS-M basically combines one of those EOS bodies and the point and shoot.

I'm not saying I'm in the market for an EOS-M but there definitely is a market.

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Ian.Dobinson
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #19 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

I found the other bits on the WEX web site as well

the adpter is �129
and the Flash �119

strange priceing on the adapter as its cheaper to buy the zoom kit and add the 22 prime and adapter than it is to buy the prime kit (adapter included) and add the zoom .

Ive checked other listings and it seems that here at least the flash is Always included .
I noticed at the bottom of the press release on the DPR web it had a picture of camer and flash and it said
"Canon EOS-M with Speedlite EX-90 (included with the camera in most markets)"

so maybe the States is not 'most markets'

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:25 AM

andyjaggy82
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #20 · EOS-M success, shortcomings?

deepbluejh wrote:
I wandered over to DPReview and took a look at the comments section for this camera. They are famously known as a group of incessant whiners, so I shouldn't be surprised they hated the camera. However the intensity of the disdain kind of took me by surprise.

Why all the hate?

Because photographers are a bunch of gear head whiners who love to complain about everything. Does that answer your question? Sorry if I offended any of you, you know it's true.

Jul 23, 2012 at 10:26 AM

1 2 3 … 10 11 end
FM Forums \| Canon Forum \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 10 11 end