Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | General Gear-talk | Join Upload & Sell
1
       2       end
   

Archive 2012 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?
  
 
Picha
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Me too :-)

Still unable to achieve properly focus along the focus plane.
I wonder if I'm trying to achieve things that are impossible in the first place.

As in someone is trying to focus his 300 2.8 lens on a subject that's 30 cm away ... which is impossible. And if you know, instead of getting "frustrated" you just take a step back, voila ! :-)

Great pictures all over the place, especially the ones with a (very) near foreground (rocks ...) and nice background ( mountains, trees ...), all sharp while using an open aperture.
BUT a "behind the scene" shot, or more specific "side shot" would help a lot.
Now, I have no idea if my camera is positioned too high, too low, too close, too far ....
And just maybe I encounter limitations that I am not even aware of !?

I know this kind of lenses have a lot of creative potential so I do realise it's me ! :-)

Thanks for all the help
Apr 28, 2012 at 03:58 PM
Henga
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


I don't own a TS-E lens so I can't help you on that point but a lot of photos you see on the net with an extreme depth of field are done using focus staking technics.

Arnaud
Apr 28, 2012 at 04:29 PM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Just some quick ideas from my experience with both a 17 and 24TSE.

You need live view to focus and for me, the 1DS-mk3 implementation is marginal unless you have very contrasty focus targets and no glare on the back.

You can't have anything protruding into the plane of focus. For example if you have a tree that is close, and then you focus for distance and tilt for near, the top of the tree will be outside the focus plane. In this case, you are better off using hyperfocal or focus stacking.

These lenses have so much natural DOF that they look pretty sharp on the LCD, but when you get home and view at large size, they are not sharp everywhere. Also the focus ring is pretty sensitive and a very small turn makes a big difference.

My process is to micro adjust the lens for sharp infinity focus. Then I use focus confirm on something far away and using live view, tilt for near focus. I have a hard time using live view for far away stuff, hence my dependence on focus confirm. Other folks have better visual acuity and may be able to do everything with live view.

The 5D-mk2 has a better live view, so if you are using that, it may be enough.

Also, check the sides. I find image with sharp at my feet and sharp at infinity but soft on the center edges. If I make sure to get the edges sharp in live view the whole image is usually sharp.
Apr 28, 2012 at 04:51 PM
RobDickinson
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Theres a guide somewhere that details amount of tilt for lens height etc that has some printable reference cards.

I'm getting a 24tse soon so will be printing those off, and a lot of experimenting!
Apr 28, 2012 at 05:22 PM
kwilliam8
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


A couple links worth reading...

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1055512
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/focusing-ts.shtml

The latter link contains the reference cards. Good luck!

Keith W.
Apr 28, 2012 at 05:32 PM
Picha
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Thank you guy's !

I am aware of the limitations of having tall subjects (trees, buildings ...) in the foreground.
Regarding the focusing process, some prefer to start focusing on the background and next tilt and adjust focus, some prefer to begin with the foreground. I did try both. But I think there's a problem in the position of my camera in according to the foreground.

I did collect a number of links/tutorials myselve ( so I got enough theory but obvious lack the practice, hah) but not a single one shows a side view of the camera.
Later on I will have another try on shooting some objects in my living room and post these along with side views.

Thank you
Apr 29, 2012 at 01:32 AM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


I don't know if the book "View Camera Techniques" is still available, but if you can find a copy, it's a great resource for helping to understand exactly how all the movements works. The principles apply to 35mm tilt-shift lenses the same as they do to large format view cameras and lenses, but the differences are that the 35mm variety requires a lot less movement to achieve the same effect.

You can look up Scheimpflug Effect, which is the underlying theory that governs tilts and swings, but remember that you are more limited in that you only have one moveable part of the system in 35mm based cameras - the lens. Medium and large format cameras will have tilts and shifts on both the backs and lenses, offering far more flexibility.

Having every Canon brand tilt-shift plus a Zeiss 35mm Shift for my 1dsMKIII bodies, I have never had a problem achieving precise focus even using the "inferior" Live View focusing of that camera. However inferior it is, it's still plenty good enough to focus very accurately. The biggest problem is the speed (or lack thereof) when scrolling from one end of the frame to the other when viewing at 10X magnification. If you can't see the screen in the bright sun, get yourself a Hoodman. You'll be glad you did.


Apr 29, 2012 at 05:48 AM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Here's some more to read...

Harold Merklinger on the Scheimpflug Principle http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/#SR
"Focusing the View Camera" http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/FVC16.pdf
"The INs and OUTs of Focus" http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/TIAOOFe.pdf
Merklinger spreadsheet http://www.largeformatphotography.info/merklinger-spreadsheet.html
Large Format (LF) Photography: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
LF movements http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-focus.html
The Graflex Speed Graphic FAQ: http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/ (movements)
Apr 29, 2012 at 06:00 AM
mMontag
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


You didn't mention a FL so it's hard to zero in on what you're asking. Start with " the math" and add correct focusing technique - be it live view or a calibrated matte focusing screen.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/tilt-shift-lenses2.htm#calculator
Apr 29, 2012 at 08:55 AM
DanBrown
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Henga wrote:
using focus staking technics.


I think you mean "focus stacking." "Focus staking" is a technique for pinpointing the vampire's heart.
Apr 29, 2012 at 01:52 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


DanBrown wrote:
... "Focus staking" is a technique for pinpointing the vampire's heart.

Usually preceeded by "focus stalking".


Apr 29, 2012 at 03:19 PM
Monito
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


DanBrown wrote:
... "Focus staking" is a technique for pinpointing the vampire's heart.

jcolwell wrote:
Usually preceeded by "focus stalking".

I prefer to focus on stockings than vampires.
Apr 29, 2012 at 03:36 PM
Monito
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


jcolwell wrote:
Harold Merklinger on the Scheimpflug Principle http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/#SR
"Focusing the View Camera" http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/FVC16.pdf
"The INs and OUTs of Focus" http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/TIAOOFe.pdf
Merklinger spreadsheet http://www.largeformatphotography.info/merklinger-spreadsheet.html
Large Format (LF) Photography: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
LF movements http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-focus.html
The Graflex Speed Graphic FAQ: http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/ (movements)

Merklinger is a local boy with a world-wide reputation for knowing these techniques. Thanks for the links.
Apr 29, 2012 at 03:38 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Monito wrote:
Merklinger is a local boy with a world-wide reputation for knowing these techniques. Thanks for the links.

You're welcome, Alan. Harold is a personal friend and an ex-boss.



Apr 29, 2012 at 05:41 PM
p4ssw0rd
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


I have the TS-E 17mm (5D Mark II). Providing you know about the 'protruding' elements to be avoided (or you accepting the softness), which you mentioned you are aware of, the initial camera position should not matter much, just generally the lower the camera, the higher tilt you have to apply. You need to be aware that sometimes the level of tilt is very, very small. In 90% of the cases, when I shoot from shoulder height, the tilt is less than 1 degree (barely visible on the scale of the lens). Usually I use the reference cards as a very rough guiding point to know when I am overdoing it.

The trick with the focusing I use is described here. It is called (focus on far, tilt on near), sorry can see the link handy anywhere. In summary:

1. You position your camera.

2. Using the Live View (maximum magnification), you focus for the most distant object you want in focus.

3. Then, without touching anything else and using the LV again, you slightly tilt until the nearest object you want in focus is sharp. *** This will make the far object not in focus ***.

4. Now you turn the focus ring *** slightly ***, until the far object is in focus again.

5. Then you go to step 3. Apply this loop few times and you will realize that every time you need to make smaller and smaller adjustments.

6. Once you have both near/far objects in focus, take the shot.

Note: The key is to know when to stop, sometimes I go 'indefinite' loop, trying to find the proper focus, just because I overshot and tilted too much. This is why I am using the tables to have a little sanity check about the amount of tilt needed.

Note: the reason I like this method is that most of the tables assume lens being horizontal, where quite often you can start with the camera already tilted because of composition reasons. The try and error approach just works for me.

Note: You can do all this with lens wide open, but I usually use the range of f8-f16, which increases the angle which is in focus (which in turn allow for small rocks and bushes to be in focus). If you go wide open it could be quite unforgiving about you focus plane. Just my practical experience, I am still in learning curve of using this particular lens.
Apr 29, 2012 at 08:39 PM
Mike K
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


For tilt adjustment: tilt and focus interact with one another, so plan on several rounds of adjusting each. Use Live View 5-10X like a loupe on a LF camera back, moving it to the foreground (for tilt) moving it to the distant objects (for focus), and repeat the cycle many times.
Practice in your driveway until you get the hang of it.



Apr 30, 2012 at 12:56 AM
Tom Nevesely
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


I use the same method p4ssw0rd mentioned above with my TS-E lenses.

Let's say I have a mountain in the background and some flowers in the foreground.
1. Turn on live view and zoom in 10x
2. Reposition the live view zoom on to the mountain.
3. Turn the focus ring until the mountain is sharp.
4. Reposition the live view zoom on to the flowers and tilt the lens down until they are sharp. (the mountain will now be oof)
5. go back to step 2 and repeat the process until both the foreground and background are equally sharp.

A couple notes:
Sometimes it takes a while to get everything in focus so be patient.
Make all adjustments to both the tilt and focus slowly.
If you have a lot of trouble it's sometimes better to zero the lens tilt and start over.
May 01, 2012 at 10:56 AM
Alan321
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


It's been a while since I looked at Harold Merklinger's articles on view cameras but they were good. One of them had some great animated pictures showing what changes as the lens or camera tilts but you need a browser (or settings) that allows the animations to show up.

You can pretty much ignore the Scheimpflug Principle and concentrate on the Hinge Rule, which seems to be far easier to digest and relate to what you will be doing with your TS-E lens. When I used it everything seemed so simple even without Live View.

I think the greatest mistake I made when using TS-E lenses was to aim the camera at the subject instead of tilting the lens towards it. Doing so unnecessarily can mess things up a bit. I mean, it might actually work out ok but it's harder to pre-visualize the setup in accordance with the Hinge rule if both the camera sensor and the lens are "tilted".

- Alan
May 04, 2012 at 11:40 AM
roboticspro
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Hi,

You might want to download this from Schneider Optics; it is a good intro.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/photo/PC-TS%20Anleitung%201-12%20en.PDF


Edd
May 05, 2012 at 06:43 PM
bvais
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Want to master a Tilt n Shift ?


Here's one more link:

http://www.davidsummerhayes.com/Focusing%20the%20tilt-shift%20lens.pdf
May 06, 2012 at 05:51 PM
1
       2       end
FM Forums | General Gear-talk | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.