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Archive 2012 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!

  
 
jj_glos
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p.17 #1 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Todd Klassy wrote:
I was worried that I too missed something and went back and looked. There is nothing in print that says AF points were "enhanced" in some way to be black instead of red. And frankly, I think they knew some people would be pissed because it was never brought up.


Oh come on, the whole AF system was getting a massive overhaul. It was all changing, so whilst they did not specifically state that as a change, the onus is on the purchaser to look into what he is buying!

It was never an issue with the 7D so why should they have seen it as an issue to hide for the 5D3?



May 25, 2012 at 11:30 AM
pompo
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p.17 #2 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


arbitrage wrote:
We shall see. My prediction: you won't hear a thing about it. Why? Because they are shooting primarily in good light with 400 2.8 lenses and 70-200 2.8 lenses. The black points are easy to see with those lenses in good light. Even the Olympic swimming venues are bright enough to not present much issues.

I could be wrong, but time will tell. I'll be in Switzerland/Italy at the time and watch the fallout from there



you might be right actually, since as I said myself before I really have probs with fast primes...at 2.8 and 4.0 the black points show up good in decent light



May 25, 2012 at 11:43 AM
garyvot
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p.17 #3 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Todd Klassy wrote:
I was worried that I too missed something and went back and looked. There is nothing in print that says AF points were "enhanced" in some way to be black instead of red. And frankly, I think they knew some people would be pissed because it was never brought up.


Todd, I don't want to beat a dead horse, nor am I suggesting you or anyone else is wrong to dislike the new system.

But I do think there is some confusion around this.

The AF points in previous 5-series cameras were black, not red. They are black on every Canon model other than 1-series cameras.

The design for how the black AF points get displayed in the 5D3 is different (being dynamic rather than fixed), but the significant functional change from the 5D2 is that there is no momentary AF point illumination when in AI Servo mode.

I agree this is a problem currently, but it should be easy to fix with a firmware update.

Edited on May 25, 2012 at 12:23 PM · View previous versions



May 25, 2012 at 12:13 PM
pompo
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p.17 #4 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I call out canon for going the cheap way on a $3500 camera! This ain't no 7d, they could have just added an led for each Af point like Nikon did (that's how the 1d series is as well), this is cutting corners on an semi-pro camera and it's even worse on a $6800 body. I will not buy the 1DX with this cr@ppy VF. so I'm basically stuck for another year waiting...what other options do I have? Never upgrade or switch system?


May 25, 2012 at 12:22 PM
garyvot
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p.17 #5 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


pompo wrote:
I call out canon for going the cheap way on a $3500 camera! This ain't no 7d, they could have just added an led for each Af point like Nikon did (that's how the 1d series is as well), this is cutting corners on an semi-pro camera and it's even worse on a $6800 body. I will not buy the 1DX with this cr@ppy VF. so I'm basically stuck for another year waiting...what other options do I have? Never upgrade or switch system?


It sucks if you don't like it for sure, but I don't think it's a cost-cutting measure. I think Canon genuinely feels the new system is an improvement.

Incidentally, I haven't tested a D800, but the D700 worked this way (side-lit illumination), as do most other current Nikon models other than than the D3/D4.



May 25, 2012 at 12:25 PM
pompo
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p.17 #6 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I dont see how Canon and or its testers can think is an improvement, the AF system, speed etc is incredible, but the sidelight flashing, useless, distracting and plain cheap. Try using the 5D markIII in bright daylight with an 85mm 1.2 and see how the black af points show up, the become almost transparent , and the red illumination barely even show at all, this is crazy to me.


May 25, 2012 at 12:30 PM
Todd Klassy
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p.17 #7 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


jj_glos wrote:
Oh come on, the whole AF system was getting a massive overhaul. It was all changing, so whilst they did not specifically state that as a change, the onus is on the purchaser to look into what he is buying!

It was never an issue with the 7D so why should they have seen it as an issue to hide for the 5D3?


Yes, buyer beware, I suppose. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a whole cadre of photographers out there who shoot with 5D, 1D, or 1Ds legacy models who are unpleasantly surprised about the changes. And it doesn't mean this change is a good one. And it doesn't mean that someone who has never used this crippled AF illumination method who had never used it before would have been able to grasp the true disadvantage of it without first using the camera in the field first.

I also suspect this has something to do with shooting styles. If you are a photographer who is always using the center focus point and center your subjects in the frame you might be OK with the current system. If, however, you find composition very important, as it is with me, and you are constantly changing focus points from one side of the VF to the other, then perhaps you will believe me that this change is a colossal pain in the arse.

And again, and don't take this the wrong way, I believe 7D photographers aren't as savvy as 5D, 1D and 1Ds photographers and their shooting styles may not be a mature as those who have been shooting with other camera bodies. But that's just a hunch.

Let me tell you one thing...I've had 6 action packed photo shoots since I've had this body. In each case I gained more "keepers" as a result of the AF system, but lost other shots as a result of the change in AF illumination for what I consider a near net gain of zero. Now you can call me a liar, or a habitual complainer, or a n00b. Be my guest. But this change has affected the way I shoot and renders the advantages of the new AF system nearly (not quite...nearly) nil.

Now, before you criticize my complaints on this issue, I would ask you (and anyone else who doesn't see the logic in my issue here) to be HONEST with me:

1.) Do you now own a 5D Mark III?

2.) Do you own a 7D?

3.) What cameras did you own prior to you owning the 5D Mark III or 7D?

4.) How much of your shooting would you say consists of using AI Servo mode?

5.) What % of your shooting is still subjects, portraits, landscapes, etc. vs. action/motion?

6.) How do you have your AF set-up? Do you spend a majority of the time using either one AF point, such as the center AF point, or letting the camera select the best AF point?

7.) Do you shoot professionally?

8.) How important is composition to your photography? Is it something you constantly think of in every shot, or do you just try to nail the shot and worry about composition occasionally?

9.) Are you a paid shill for Canon, or a habitual fan boy and/or apologist for Canon?

If those who fail to understand this issue were to answer these questions 100% honestly, I think we could see some trends as to why there might be those who just don't get it.

P.S. I'm not alone. There are many others complaining about this on other bulletin boards, two others photogs who I personally know, and the guy behind Canon Rumors. Are they all certifiably insane, too?



May 25, 2012 at 01:01 PM
Todd Klassy
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p.17 #8 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


garyvot wrote:
It sucks if you don't like it for sure, but I don't think it's a cost-cutting measure. I think Canon genuinely feels the new system is an improvement.


It escapes me how anyone can see this as an improvement. I just don't get this point at all.



May 25, 2012 at 01:09 PM
ggreene
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p.17 #9 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


arbitrage wrote:
We shall see. My prediction: you won't hear a thing about it. Why? Because they are shooting primarily in good light with 400 2.8 lenses and 70-200 2.8 lenses. The black points are easy to see with those lenses in good light. Even the Olympic swimming venues are bright enough to not present much issues.

I could be wrong, but time will tell. I'll be in Switzerland/Italy at the time and watch the fallout from there


Unfortunately, I think you are right. For pro shooters covering very large venues with good lighting it probably won't be that bad but for pros covering lesser events with much worse lighting it is going to be a real PITA. Why does Nikon always seem to get it right lately and for less as well? Frustrating.



May 25, 2012 at 02:03 PM
garyvot
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p.17 #10 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Here is some information quoted by Canonrumors:

"The transmissive LCD is the issue with both the 5D Mark III and the 1D X. Despite greatly improved AF, the exposure is affected by the red light of the AF point. This is why they do not light up in AI servo just prior to the exposure reading being made.

In order to solve the problem, Canon will have to figure a way to turn them on (red), yet adjust for the exposure differential. That isn’t as easy as it sounds, as each focus point will affect exposure slightly differently not to mention it’s also dependant on which exposure mode is
...Show more

Okay, this makes sense somewhat. But if this is the case, why is AF point illumination not an issue when calculating exposure in One Shot mode?

And if it works in One Shot mode, it seems to me that Canon could still light up the viewfinder momentarily at some point in the initial focus acquisition phase and calculate the initial exposure either before or after this event. If the camera is selecting AF points, then initial exposure might need to use center-weighted metering instead of evaluative (as would be the case if the AF point is known), but it seems that would be less onerous than nothing at all. In any case it could be an optional setting.

I find the side lighting a compromise worth making for other features of the new AF system, but I agree that having no initial AF point illumination in AI Servo is a problem.



May 25, 2012 at 02:23 PM
Mike Tuomey
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p.17 #11 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


one single, very small vote: (mine)

"i'm a 5D II and 1D-series user who shoots enough action that i will not buy a 5D III until Canon can give me 5D III AF point illumination equivalent to my other bodies."



May 25, 2012 at 02:45 PM
pompo
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p.17 #12 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I hope I'm wrong but it looks like Canon will use the same cr@ppy VF from now on...The 1dx will be the same !


May 25, 2012 at 02:49 PM
pompo
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p.17 #13 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I 'm thinking I might get a 3 stop ND filter if Canon cannot fix this at least in bright daylight I'll be able to see the black AF points with 1.2 and 1.4 primes. When the light drops I'll have to get the sucker out thosuch a pain in da butt....


May 27, 2012 at 11:12 AM
kewlcanon
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p.17 #14 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


10. Do you have good pair of eyes ?

11 Are you over 50 ?.



Todd Klassy wrote:
Yes, buyer beware, I suppose. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a whole cadre of photographers out there who shoot with 5D, 1D, or 1Ds legacy models who are unpleasantly surprised about the changes. And it doesn't mean this change is a good one. And it doesn't mean that someone who has never used this crippled AF illumination method who had never used it before would have been able to grasp the true disadvantage of it without first using the camera in the field first.

I also suspect this has something to do with shooting styles. If
...Show more



May 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM
kewlcanon
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p.17 #15 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


By that time the price will be around $2,699 and you won't be upset anymore about it .

Mike Tuomey wrote:
one single, very small vote: (mine)

"i'm a 5D II and 1D-series user who shoots enough action that i will not buy a 5D III until Canon can give me 5D III AF point illumination equivalent to my other bodies."




May 27, 2012 at 11:23 AM
kardy
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p.17 #16 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I used my 5D3 back to back with my 1Ds2's outside in the bright sun again this weekend and I strongly preferred the darker focal points. Many times I lost the red illuminated one against bright backgrounds, never once had an issue with the 5D3's. Funny I never remember being troubled by the red ones before despite using those bodies for several years.

I know, it's been said many times that some people don't have a problem with the darker ones, but I'm re-iterating that I hope we have a choice of one or the other if they do find a way to change it via firmware update.



May 27, 2012 at 11:32 AM
pompo
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p.17 #17 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I 'm thinking I might get a 3 stop ND filter if Canon cannot fix this at least in bright daylight I'll be able to see the black AF points with 1.2 and 1.4 primes. When the light drops I'll have to get the sucker out tho, such a pain in da butt....


Edited on May 27, 2012 at 02:35 PM · View previous versions



May 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM
Todd Klassy
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p.17 #18 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


And I used mine side-by-side with my 5D1 and found the illumination of the 5D3 AF points very disappointing.


May 27, 2012 at 12:03 PM
kardy
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p.17 #19 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Todd Klassy wrote:
And I used mine side-by-side with my 5D1 and found the illumination of the 5D3 AF points very disappointing.


In bright sun against light subjects?



May 27, 2012 at 02:33 PM
Todd Klassy
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p.17 #20 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


The sun was relatively high in the sky, but I can't say it was against brightly lit subjects. Frankly, I find myself missing the red illuminated AF point in most situations. Perhaps part of my angst has to do with a change in habit. I have been shooting with it since 2006. But before people call me out for not willing to change, I find the red flash of the AF point helpful for composing fast-paced scenes because I always know where it is and I always like to mix up my composition in the frame. I really hate not having it.


May 27, 2012 at 04:22 PM
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