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Archive 2012 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!

  
 
WilliamG
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p.16 #1 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


pompo wrote:
about the work around...and how you are supposed to track a person with low light if you don't see where the black af point is? in other words when you pan and track someone you gotta be able to see the af point is to constantly keep it on the subject, not just when you start shooting, but as you continue shooting and your subject move, you gotta move along with your af point on the subject. Try shooting a concert and following someone moving on the stage in low light, say 12800 iso 1.4

You will also see that even
...Show more

I don't see how easily this will get fixed. It seems to me that in low light if the AF point is lit, the whole screen will light up and make it even MORE impossible to see anything when using AI Servo.



May 24, 2012 at 01:56 PM
pompo
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p.16 #2 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I know, I would be happy if they can add a bit more contrast to the black points and make the red illumination stronger and more visible during daylight PLUS at least a little preflash on servo focus..I'm well aware that they cannot do miracles on it, which really sucks...Hopefully next round of bodies after the 1Dx wil go back to a led light for each AF point like they used to!

Edited on May 24, 2012 at 02:16 PM · View previous versions



May 24, 2012 at 01:59 PM
garyvot
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p.16 #3 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


WilliamG wrote:
I don't see how easily this will get fixed. It seems to me that in low light if the AF point is lit, the whole screen will light up and make it even MORE impossible to see anything when using AI Servo.


Yes, I think the best they could do would be to add a setting which caused the screen to illuminate for a brief moment when AF is initially engaged, then turn off while tracking. At least you would be able to locate the selected AF point in dim light and at any time by re-engaging the AF system.



May 24, 2012 at 02:15 PM
elader
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p.16 #4 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I shot the 5DmkIII twice at Mitzvahs - dark, frantic teens. It really REALLY is difficult to see it lock - I am so used to that flash on the 1dmkIII/5DC. I don't know how they could fix that. Besides this stupid viewfinder, I love the camera.


May 24, 2012 at 02:17 PM
pompo
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p.16 #5 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


elader wrote:
I shot the 5DmkIII twice at Mitzvahs - dark, frantic teens. It really REALLY is difficult to see it lock - I am so used to that flash on the 1dmkIII/5DC. I don't know how they could fix that. Besides this stupid viewfinder, I love the camera.
I love it too that is why it's sooo hard to have that stupid viewfinder like that! It almost is like the 5d m2, it was great BUT....the af sucks, the 5DM3 is great BUT... the viewfinder sucks...



May 24, 2012 at 02:20 PM
AGeoJO
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p.16 #6 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


elader wrote:
I shot the 5DmkIII twice at Mitzvahs - dark, frantic teens. It really REALLY is difficult to see it lock - I am so used to that flash on the 1dmkIII/5DC. I don't know how they could fix that. Besides this stupid viewfinder, I love the camera.


To see it lock AF, you mean? It seems that we are talking about two completely different things here. Pompo was complaining about not being able to figure out where the active AF point is before the AF process starts and you are referring to the AF point to light up after it has locked focus. Is that correct? If this is correct, then you can turn on the AF point to light up. It is a matter of a setting in your case, in other words.



May 24, 2012 at 02:36 PM
Todd Klassy
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p.16 #7 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Doesn't sound like good news for a fix. Was hoping for something more:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/5d-mark-iii-1d-x-black-focus-point-in-ai-servo-information/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+canonrumors/rss+(Canon+Rumors)



May 24, 2012 at 05:53 PM
pompo
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p.16 #8 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


me too, but we will see, nobody knows for sure how they will handle this but Canon


May 24, 2012 at 05:55 PM
Todd Klassy
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p.16 #9 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


But I think it is important that people keep the pressure on them. If it seems as though interest or concern with this problem has worn off they might just try to leave well enough alone. I consider this a major annoyance (almost a hindrance) and certainly want to see Canon do something to fix it.

Luckily the 1DX is hitting the shelves soon and I'm confident there will be many more pro-style shooters who will complain than 5D3 users.



May 24, 2012 at 06:10 PM
pompo
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p.16 #10 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I have NO doubts pro shooters will use the 1DX for a few days and "BANG" start complaining about it I already know! Not only its a major annoyance, I took the excitement out of me about using the killer new AF !!!!


May 24, 2012 at 06:12 PM
elader
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p.16 #11 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


AGeojoJO - not really, having the vf flash red in a dark room sucks -


May 24, 2012 at 06:45 PM
AGeoJO
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p.16 #12 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


elader wrote:
AGeojoJO - not really, having the vf flash red in a dark room sucks -


OK, you don't want the AF point to flash when it locks AF then and you know, it can be setup that way, right? I guess I am not quite sure what your issue is.



May 24, 2012 at 06:55 PM
LD_50
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p.16 #13 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


AGeoJO wrote:
OK, you don't want the AF point to flash when it locks AF then and you know, it can be setup that way, right? I guess I am not quite sure what your issue is.


I've been following this thread for some time to learn of any news from Canon on this issue.

I keep reading responses like the one above that indicate people aren't understanding or are defending the issue.

As I see it:
1- The AF illumination has changed from previous 1 series models to now be handled by sidelit LEDs instead of individual LEDs for each point. This means that instead of individual AF points illuminating, the entire VF flashes red, even being noticeable through the end of the lens. See previous 1 series cameras or the Nikon D# series for a better alternative.

2- The selected AF points are not illuminated in red, instead only in black (or worse apparently with faster than f2.8 lenses), making the identification of the selected AF point difficult in certain lighting and/or with certain backgrounds. This applies to AI-Servo operation during tracking as well as single point if you are either attempting to quickly recompose or follow an object and then refocus. The workaround appears to be activating the AF again to illuminate the entire VF in a flash of red (due to the lighting method mentioned above). The problem of course is that if you have to illuminate the selected AF point manually and then compose the shot, you've slowed down the entire process and added a previously unnecessary step.

3- Some have suggested that illumination of the AF point once focus is locked is a reasonable solution, and one available via firmware fix for AI Servo as the point moves, but this ignores the issue with composition mentioned above. If you have to achieve focus before being able to clearly identify where you're focusing, you have an added step and a higher potential for missing the shot.

4- Some have suggested this change was necessary to allow for on demand grid lines, level display, etc. See the Nikon D4 for proof that these features can be implemented while maintaining individual LEDs for each AF point. The idea that the 61 points is simply too many for individual LEDs is also odd considering the D4 has 51 points.

This change in design offers no benefits that I can see or have read about. Perhaps it was a cost saving measure, though the increased price of the 5DIII and 1DX would make this disappointing. If anyone can point to an actual benefit of this change I would be interested to hear about it. I see no way Canon can fix the issue without a hardware redesign, though firmware tweaks could at least slightly mitigate it.

To defend the decision to change the AF illumination design is odd, given that it seems to provide no benefit and actually detracts from the user experience offered by previous Canons. To suggest to move on to another camera body is to ignore Canon's responsibility to its customers.

If invested in Canon lenses and looking for a state of the art camera body, what option is available that doesn't feature this AF illumination issue?

If you're upgrading from a previous Canon, why would you expect the degradation of a key feature with no explanation or warning of the change?



May 25, 2012 at 02:04 AM
garyvot
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p.16 #14 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


LD_50 wrote:
I've been following this thread for some time to learn of any news from Canon on this issue.

I keep reading responses like the one above that indicate people aren't understanding or are defending the issue.

As I see it:
1- The AF illumination has changed from previous 1 series models to now be handled by sidelit LEDs instead of individual LEDs for each point. This means that instead of individual AF points illuminating, the entire VF flashes red, even being noticeable through the end of the lens. See previous 1 series cameras or the Nikon D# series for a better alternative.
...Show more

Good analysis of the differences between the old and new viewfinder designs.

Judgning by all the similar discussions that happened with the 7D (where were all you guys then?), Canon chose this approach because of the flexibility gained for implementing features like Zone AF.

Whether it's a "degraded" experience or not will be up to the individual, but it's not an "issue" to be fixed: it's the way the camera is designed to work.

I would expect anyone purchasing a new $3.5K camera would do enough research to discern what is new and what is different ahead of time. Lots of things change. It's up to you to decide if the changes are good or bad for you. Canon is not going to ask your permission before taking your money. And if you don't like a product, you generally have some time to return it for a refund.



May 25, 2012 at 08:20 AM
Todd Klassy
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p.16 #15 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


garyvot wrote:
Good analysis of the differences between the old and new viewfinder designs.


Yes, a perfect analysis, in fact.

Judgning by all the similar discussions that happened with the 7D (where were all you guys then?), Canon chose this approach because of the flexibility gained for implementing features like Zone AF.

Where were we? Using our 5D1, 5D3, 1D, 1D2, 1D3, 1D4, 1Ds, 1Ds2, 1Ds3, etc. If a person does not own a 7D, why would they loiter on a 7D thread? And even if a Canon shooter did, why would they be concerned? The 5D, 1D, and 1Ds series cameras always illuminated AF points the same way. Why would anyone expect that to change in the 5D3? What's more, I suspect many 5D, 1D, and 1Ds shooters kept using similar cameras. 7D shooters were more likely to graduate from the xxD series to use the 7D, and likely didn't notice a problem. Hell, I once owned a 20D and I even think that camera used the same AF point illumination method.

Whether it's a "degraded" experience or not will be up to the individual, but it's not an "issue" to be fixed: it's the way the camera is designed to work.

It is an issue if a legion of camera users who were used to using the camera a certain way. And if there are users who never relied on that functionality, so be it, but I can firmly say that their images suffered as a result. They hobbled 7D approach (for lack of a better term) adds another step to the process of shooting. How anyone can say that the addition of another step improves one's photography is beyond me. It only hinders the output. It takes time to hit another button and recompose a shot. And in doing so, you are very possibly missing shots in the process. Not. Good.

I would expect anyone purchasing a new $3.5K camera would do enough research to discern what is new and what is different ahead of time. Lots of things change. It's up to you to decide if the changes are good or bad for you. Canon is not going to ask your permission before taking your money. And if you don't like a product, you generally have some time to return it for a refund.

Oh, so those of us who are complaining are now stupid. Thank you.

There was NOTHING in the product literature online or elsewhere when I placed an order for a new camera that would suggest that the AF point illumination would change. NOTHING. There were a few sporadic posts online before my camera arrived, but it was hard to discern what the problem was until the camera did arrive.

If you want to defend Canon, so be it. But there are seasoned pros on this thread (and others on other bulletin boards), including yours truly, who find this to be a major annoyance at best, and a significant hurdle at worst. If you want to sit back and defense the covert changes to a AF system that Canon engineers SURELY knew would change the way people take photos (and not for the better) then you are living in some alternate universe. That or you don't understand the true power of that now missing feature. Those of us who used it, and now no longer have it, miss it. Not for some selfish, self-centered purpose...because it affects our performance.

Don't worry, I won't call you stupid like you just did me.



May 25, 2012 at 10:02 AM
garyvot
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p.16 #16 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Todd Klassy wrote:
Yes, a perfect analysis, in fact.

Where were we? Using our 5D1, 5D3, 1D, 1D2, 1D3, 1D4, 1Ds, 1Ds2, 1Ds3, etc. If a person does not own a 7D, why would they loiter on a 7D thread? And even if a Canon shooter did, why would they be concerned? The 5D, 1D, and 1Ds series cameras always illuminated AF points the same way. Why would anyone expect that to change in the 5D3? What's more, I suspect many 5D, 1D, and 1Ds shooters kept using similar cameras. 7D shooters were more likely to graduate from the xxD series to use
...Show more

You can dislike the viewfinder changes: I'm not calling anyone out on that. Nor do I think that is "stupid" (your words, not mine).

I thought the viewfinder changes were well known, and there was ample awareness of them. If that isn't the case, then I concede your point.



May 25, 2012 at 10:12 AM
pompo
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p.16 #17 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


I can't wait to see what is gonna happen at the olympics LMAO there are gonna be A LOT of Pros cursing out the new "intelligent" viewfinder.


May 25, 2012 at 10:22 AM
Todd Klassy
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p.16 #18 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


garyvot wrote:
I thought the viewfinder changes were well known, and there was ample awareness of them. If that isn't the case, then I concede your point.


I was worried that I too missed something and went back and looked. There is nothing in print that says AF points were "enhanced" in some way to be black instead of red. And frankly, I think they knew some people would be pissed because it was never brought up.



May 25, 2012 at 10:29 AM
garyvot
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p.16 #19 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


Todd Klassy wrote:
I was worried that I too missed something and went back and looked. There is nothing in print that says AF points were "enhanced" in some way to be black instead of red. And frankly, I think they knew some people would be pissed because it was never brought up.


Perhaps that is so.

The new design is similar to the 7D and to several recent Nikon models, so I suspect we'll see it rolled out on more cameras in the future.

For me it's a net positive change from the 5D2, as I value the ability to suppress the display of all the unselected AF points (to say nothing of AF performance). It's also improved over the 7D in that the AF squares are lighter in outline and far less distracting when visible.

The illumination issue and extra button don't affect me much as I shoot in One Shot most if the time (where the AF point illuminates when acquiring focus), and I have reprogrammed the DOF button to toggle AI Servo when I need it. This makes it easy to switch between AF modes on the fly with the camera at your eye.

For those who don't or won't use this workaround, I do hope that Canon issues a firmware update to provide some form of momentary illumination when in AI Servo, to confirm where the AF point is before tracking in low light / low key situations. It seems to me this would be about the best they could do in terms of a "fix" given the HW design.

Edited on May 25, 2012 at 12:11 PM · View previous versions



May 25, 2012 at 11:02 AM
arbitrage
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p.16 #20 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!


pompo wrote:
I can't wait to see what is gonna happen at the olympics LMAO there are gonna be A LOT of Pros cursing out the new "intelligent" viewfinder.


We shall see. My prediction: you won't hear a thing about it. Why? Because they are shooting primarily in good light with 400 2.8 lenses and 70-200 2.8 lenses. The black points are easy to see with those lenses in good light. Even the Olympic swimming venues are bright enough to not present much issues.

I could be wrong, but time will tell. I'll be in Switzerland/Italy at the time and watch the fallout from there



May 25, 2012 at 11:18 AM
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