p.9 #1 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Thanks siddhu for taking the time to share. I would also welcome feedback/other experiences on this as it seem we share shooting style a lot - and finding the EG-S working really well on the 5D2 at wideopen usage.
p.9 #2 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
@Kiddik - I wish I had the same experience as you! I was totally into getting the 5D3 for various reasons but it's been disappointing to say the least.
Do you have the 35mm f/1.4 or could you rent one to test? I would like to be proven wrong and that I just had a "bad" 5D3 sample.
BTW: So you are using the Zone AF not just the centre point?
p.9 #3 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
@Siddhu, I have the ZE 35/2 as well and same story there, nail focus every time, same with ZE 50/1.4, ZE 100/2MP & ZE 21/2.8. I always use the 9-double-crosstype Zone AF (center area), never just the one center point. The Zone AF gets weaker when you move the points to the sides, as the double cross-type AF points are only in the center.
p.9 #8 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Siddhu wrote:
Well after 3 days of testing the 5D3 with the Zeiss 35mm f1.4 I can say the following based on my testing/observations however your YMMV:
1) Manual focus (no focus assist) is more precise and accurate on the 5D2 with the EG-S screen. I was able to consistently have a 90%+ keeper rate as opposed to maybe 50% on the 5D3 when shooting wide open. This is both the test target and various static subjects out and about.
2) After calibrating the AF micro-adjust, my shots were closer to being in focus than without any calibration but there was variations in the focus point. What I mean by this is that the AF confirm does not always indicate at the same point, some shots are more in focus than others but they are not really dead on sharp the way they are when I'm at f/4 or using live view.
3) So even with the 5D3 on a tripod and aimed at a test target 1.75 meters away, when using the focus confirm, some shots were more in focus than others. This is even after the AF micro-adjustment. Again, I was shooting wide open and the depth of field at that distance for the 35mm at f/1.4 is 20.9 cm.
4) After getting the AF adjustment as close as possible (+3), I went out to shoot some license plates at about 2m - 3m. I found that similar to the test target, when shooting wide open and relying on the focus confirm, some shots were more in focus than others, and I was able to have many more shots in perfect focus by eye than with the AF confirm. NONE of the AF confirm shots were right on matching the live view or the few shots that I managed to perfectly focus using the VF. This is again shooting at f/1.4.
5) Shooting at f4 with the focus confirm all my shots were in sharp, clear focus.
For me, the 5D3 is a no go for shooting at f/1.4 to f/2 (with MF glass), and maybe even f/2.8 depending on focal length using the AF confirm and/or the stock screen. If you are shooting stopped down, you can totally rely on the AF confirm and get perfectly focused shots.
If I am to buy the 5D3, I will definitely get a 3d party screen because a large part of my shooting style is to shoot wide open and in some situations such as backstage or at a party, I have to shoot wide open.
Note - All my testing was done using the most accurate and precise centre focus point on the 5D3.
I would welcome it, if someone else was to do the same and try shooting with the 5D3 + Zeiss glass wide open so we can compare our results....Show more →
Thanks for sharing.
You completely confirm the thoughts I had about MF with the 5DIII.
Question to all 5DIII users:
How's the liveview? Lloyd Chambers mentioned that it's more difficult (than with the 5DII) to see what's exactly in focus.
p.9 #9 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
@Siddhu & kiddik
Thanks very much for your discussion. This is very important for myself, and I suspect many users on this forum. I have recently moved to a 5DII (from a D700) to take advantage of it's ability to use a wider range of Alt glass. I have a EG-s screen on order as well. I could purchase a 5DIII if I wanted but I am not sure if there is a real reason to do so, and would rather spend the extra money on glass. It may be the the true answer is that there is a 5DIII advantage for some people, and others not.
Regardless, I applaud you for keeping an even tone discussion without degenerating into the senseless squabbles that so often characterize these and other online forums. Well done and thanks again!
p.9 #10 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
@kiddik & @siddhu:
Could it be that you think differently what's a correctly focused image? When I read what siddhu writes he talks about dead-on focus and a keeper rate which is high with the EG-S/5D2 and low with AF-confirm/5D3. His 5D2 experience seem very much like mine, and reasoning is alike :-)
If I took a shot of my kid like kiddik with the 85P at that distance I'm sure I could use AF-confirm even on the 5D2 and it would be sufficient for webres in 9 cases out of 10. The same with the salty sugar dispenser. But if I started to pixelpeep I would probably throw away at least half of the images. Probably more. And with the 85P on longer distances keeper rate would plummet.
EDIT:
Kiddik, when you say that the 5D3/AF-confirm always nails focus (wideopen), are you pixelpeeping too - and still get a keeper rate of 90%+?
p.9 #12 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I don't know what demands you guys make, but here are two 1:1 crops from both of the previous samples I provided, please keep in mind that the 85mm is soft like that wide open at 1:1 viewing size. First sample is ZE 35/2 and second is ZE 85/1.4. Personally I don't think I could ask for more. I have dozens if not hundreds of samples like these.
It was clear to me on the first day with the 5D3, that my keeper rate was going to be a lot higher than it had been with my old 5D2 for the past 3 years I had it. (I had Eg-S installed)
p.9 #13 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
carstenw wrote:
Yeah, Lloyd Chambers is not as careful as he was earlier. I don't think I'll renew next time. The 5DIII seems like a fine camera, although it bothers me that Canon removed the interchangeable screen option. I also wish the D800 had the choices of the D3 series.
Agreed.
Tons of pages about the D800 and very few about the "don't even bother with it" 5DmkIII.
The brightscreen link is indeed a joke... so much for the D800 "interchangeable screen"!
p.9 #14 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
kiddik -- Beautiful examples. Thanks for the 100% details. The 5D3 looks to be doing fine without any interchangeable screen option. Okay by me -- I've stopped changing screens for the most part at this point. I tend to shoot slower lenses and at smaller f/stops so the "S" screen is actually counter productive and makes all my slower lenses look far darker than standard screens. The S screen is bad news for variable aperture AF zooms and stopped down MF lenses.
p.9 #15 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I had the same experience with the 5d2 and microadjust as Siddhu and the 5d3 - inconsistency.
kiddik - are you comparing it to live view focusing?
Apr 10, 2012 at 11:48 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #16 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Marco wrote:
Agreed.
Tons of pages about the D800 and very few about the "don't even bother with it" 5DmkIII.
The brightscreen link is indeed a joke... so much for the D800 "interchangeable screen"!
I sent him an e-mail and asked about the D800 interchangeable screens and the brightscreen link
This was the reply he gave me:
"You presume I can work 48 hours a day?"
Apr 10, 2012 at 11:53 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #17 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
It bet Siddu and kiddik are both right. The "S" screens don't work for everyone and how well they work depends on your vision, how much you practice with them, and how wide the aperture is of the lens you are shooting among other factors. I love the Ee-S screen on my 5D MKI and like not thinking about AF at all. When I shoot, I simply frame the shot I want and make sure the elements I want are in focus. I think cogitech labelled this compocus or something like that. If you like to shoot this way and you have a good keeper rate with the "S" screen, then you probably aren't going to like to switch to the 5D MKIII. On the other hand, if you never had that high of a keeper rate with the "S" screen and don't mind AF confirmation (or even like it), and particularly if you often shoot stopped down, then you may well prefer the 5D MKIII. So I think Siddu and kiddik are probably both right for them, and whether the 5D MKIII is right for you can be answered to a large extend by how you feel about the "S" screen on your current camera. If you love it and how it lets you shoot and you shoot wide open often, then you will probably be disappointed in the lack of an "S" screen for the 5D MKIII, much like Siddu. If on the other hand, you never really took to the "S" screen and you are comfortable with AF confirmation, then you will probably love the 5D MKIII, much like kiddik. Different strokes, etc.
p.9 #18 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Also the ZE/ZF 35/1.4 is one of the hardest lenses to MF due to its uncorrected SA design.
Siddu, have you tried any other MF lenses and see if your keeper rate is better?
I have two questions for 5d3 owners:
1) Does the LiveView show actual 100% image view or is it interpolating pixels like the D800 is reported to be doing?
2) Does the LiveView show you the image with aperture stopped down to the set aperture or only wide open aperture? D800 is reported to do the first way in most modes and the last way in auto mode. Is this configurable? Someone said the Nikon was, not sure if that is true. Is the 5d3 configurable?
3) Can I reconfigure the LiveView zoom-in zoom-out buttons to be controlled by the right buttons like previous cameras?
p.9 #19 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
ken.vs.ryu wrote:
kiddik - are you comparing it to live view focusing?
No, always the viewfinder
Steve Spencer wrote:
It bet Siddu and kiddik are both right.
I think you are right in saying that we're both right I did like the Eg-S focusing a lot more than I did with the stock screen, back in 5D2 and 5Dc days, but one of the reasons I switched to Ee-S/Eg-S was that the AF confirm on 5Dc and 5D2 were completely useless blinks of red light, with maybe a 20% window on errors in both direction. I have never been 100% comfortable with the viewfinder only focusing, due to my less than perfect eyesight, but my keeper rate definitely improved with the special focusing screens. Now that the AF confirm lights work amazingly well in 5D3, I am relieved, and not missing the Eg-S screen at all. I'm also happy to have the bright viewfinder again. But correct me if I'm wrong, I read somewhere a couple of times, that the stock screen had a comparable DOF to f/4, and the Eg-S had a comparable DOF to f/2.8 - so it wouldn't make a world of difference with f/1.4 lenses for example, of course it would reduce the window of error by half, but still leaving a rather large window of error. At least I'm beyond happy with my 5D3.
wayne seltzer wrote:
1) Does the LiveView show actual 100% image view or is it interpolating pixels like the D800 is reported to be doing?
2) Does the LiveView show you the image with aperture stopped down to the set aperture or only wide open aperture? D800 is reported to do the first way in most modes and the last way in auto mode. Is this configurable? Someone said the Nikon was, not sure if that is true. Is the 5d3 configurable?
3) Can I reconfigure the LiveView zoom-in zoom-out buttons to be controlled by the right buttons like previous cameras?
1) I'm not sure if it shows 1:1, but the 10x LCD zoom looks sharp enough to judge focus on.
2) If you enable "Movie" mode you will see proper DOF when you stop down, but not in "Stills" mode unless you press the Aperture Preview button on the front of the camera.
3) No, sadly not - I have no idea why they changed it, because in the new layout, the old zoom-in button has no function, so I can't understand why they couldn't keep it like it was.
p.9 #20 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
kiddik wrote:
3) No, sadly not - I have no idea why they changed it, because in the new layout, the old zoom-in button has no function, so I can't understand why they couldn't keep it like it was.
Thanks again for taking the time.
But how do you zoom on the 5D3? And you're sure it's not programmable? A couple of years ago I had the 7D - that have the SET-button next to the shutter. It was/is programmable to a range of functions, one hope for the 5D3 would be a zoom-circle for LV?
Regarding your crops on last page they look fine (although the rounded shape of the sugar bowl doesnt give away it all, and F is 2, not 1.4). but if you reach that result 8+ out of 10 it would be an improvement over the 5D2/EG-S as I use it. Do you? As I understand Siddhu does not.
Guess all are right in what they say and how happy/not happy they are. I judge from anything I read about wideopen usage, and that's why I am (still) a bit worried. If I mostly shot stopped down it's not an issue dividing failure from success. The allowed tolerance seem improved in the 5D3 regardless.
I look forward to your results with Zone AF. Maybe you should also try resetting any AF microadjustments you've made?