p.10 #1 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
You can program the SET button to zoom in Otherwise there's a new button on the left side of the body that does the zooming. And yes, I'm getting 8+ out of all photos I take, no matter what lens - and 8 of my 9 lenses are manual focus primes, of which two are f/1.4's (50+85).
It's really hard to tell someone whether they should upgrade to 5D3 or not. It's a lot of money for features that not all will be using. There's no one photo one can show, to demonstrate 5D3's superiority over 5D2. But my new line of thinking is, a properly focused shot is of higher quality than a lesser focused shot, regardless of megapixels. I for one am having great pleasure from all the new features, the focusing system, the bigger viewfinder, the framerate, the silent shutter, the built-in level, new and better LCD, 60fps video in 720p etc.
Apr 10, 2012 at 03:36 PM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.10 #2 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
kiddik wrote:
But correct me if I'm wrong, I read somewhere a couple of times, that the stock screen had a comparable DOF to f/4, and the Eg-S had a comparable DOF to f/2.8 - so it wouldn't make a world of difference with f/1.4 lenses for example, of course it would reduce the window of error by half, but still leaving a rather large window of error. At least I'm beyond happy with my 5D3.
The reports that I have seen including a recent one on the stock screen in the 5D MKIII by Chuck Westphal suggest a DOF comparable to f/4, whereas the number usually quoted for the "S" screens is f/1.8, IIRC, which I might not. Personally I have little trouble using the "S" screen at f/1.4 and the stock screen at f/2.8, but this is a very personal thing and I suspect depends a lot on eyesight. Thank you for your reports and your tips.
p.10 #3 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Hmm, I am totally confused now as to whether the improved AF of the 5DIII translates into a reliable focus confirm with alts on adapters. I would think microadjust with magnified Live view would make it as reliable as the phase detect AF system can be at say f1.4 or 1.2. I heard back from Reikan that he will likely support AF confirm for MF lenses within 6-8 weeks---that may make micro-adjust easier but not necessarily better.
I am totally unsure whether
my current 5DII with precision screen yields a better keeper rate. I will watch here closely to find out.
Mike
p.10 #4 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Michael Gordon wrote:
Hmm, I am totally confused now as to whether the improved AF of the 5DIII translates into a reliable focus confirm with alts on adapters. I would think microadjust with magnified Live view would make it as reliable as the phase detect AF system can be at say f1.4 or 1.2. I heard back from Reikan that he will likely support AF confirm for MF lenses within 6-8 weeks---that may make micro-adjust easier but not necessarily better.
I am totally unsure whether
my current 5DII with precision screen yields a better keeper rate. I will watch here closely to find out.
Mike...Show more →
Mike - same here. I am not sure which direction to go, either. For now, planning to stick with 5D2 and keep shooting.
p.10 #5 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
kiddik wrote:
No, always the viewfinder
I think you are right in saying that we're both right I did like the Eg-S focusing a lot more than I did with the stock screen, back in 5D2 and 5Dc days, but one of the reasons I switched to Ee-S/Eg-S was that the AF confirm on 5Dc and 5D2 were completely useless blinks of red light, with maybe a 20% window on errors in both direction. I have never been 100% comfortable with the viewfinder only focusing, due to my less than perfect eyesight, but my keeper rate definitely improved with the special focusing screens. Now that the AF confirm lights work amazingly well in 5D3, I am relieved, and not missing the Eg-S screen at all. I'm also happy to have the bright viewfinder again. But correct me if I'm wrong, I read somewhere a couple of times, that the stock screen had a comparable DOF to f/4, and the Eg-S had a comparable DOF to f/2.8 - so it wouldn't make a world of difference with f/1.4 lenses for example, of course it would reduce the window of error by half, but still leaving a rather large window of error. At least I'm beyond happy with my 5D3.
1) I'm not sure if it shows 1:1, but the 10x LCD zoom looks sharp enough to judge focus on.
2) If you enable "Movie" mode you will see proper DOF when you stop down, but not in "Stills" mode unless you press the Aperture Preview button on the front of the camera.
3) No, sadly not - I have no idea why they changed it, because in the new layout, the old zoom-in button has no function, so I can't understand why they couldn't keep it like it was.
Thanks Kiddik! Guess I would just have to get used to the different placement of the zoom buttons.
The silent shutter feature is probably the most interesting feature for me. Must be great for handholding alt lenses in low light.
p.10 #6 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I would be interested to hear 5DIII owner comments on the colour. Here is a quote from the Lloyd Chambers D800 preview:
"I am glad I shoot both Nikon and Canon— the Canon gear can stay in the drawer with silica gel for long term storage. Having recently reviewed the Canon 5D Mark III, the difference in color and detail isn’t even in the same league; the D800 is so far ahead that the 5DM3 simply does not merit consideration for those considering one or the other. I am reluctant to say that so explicitly, but because it is the best way I know to serve my readers, it must be said."
I know that Lloyd is a long-time Nikon fan, but this quote goes quite a bit further than his usual comments, making me wonder about the colour of the 5DIII. The recent Nikons, D3x excepted, have been nothing special with regards to colour, perhaps handling reds better than Canons in general, but handling greens worse. The D800 looks to be a departure from this state, which I am very happy about, since I have one on order, and was worried about the colour.
p.10 #7 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I add to Carsten post that Lloyd writes that 5d3 has a green cast, that you have to correct with +12 magenta tint, at least looking at the files in ACR
I already asked in another post to 5d3 users about this green cast and many of them agree with Lloyd... but many don't see the color cast
As for Lloyd being a Nikon fan, I add that he is very objective comparing d800 and 5d3 autofocus: he finds canon AF excellent even with 85/1.2 and Nikon AF absolutely inconsistent, also with regard to central focus point (not to speak to lateral focus points)
Apr 12, 2012 at 11:44 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #8 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
He also write that the many readers like to change from Canon to Nikon because the D 800 has interchangeable focus screens and the 5D3 don't have it.
And that Brightscreen makes a lot of screens for the D 800.
Both cameras are exactly the same both with the BrightScreen offers and with their own screens
p.10 #9 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
fracas wrote:
As for Lloyd being a Nikon fan, I add that he is very objective comparing d800 and 5d3 autofocus: he finds canon AF excellent even with 85/1.2 and Nikon AF absolutely inconsistent, also with regard to central focus point (not to speak to lateral focus points)
Yes, I just read his page about 5DmkIII AF with the challenging 85 f/1.2L II. Most of the images are spot on, something he cannot say about the D800.
IMHO he is honest and I'm sure his tests are among the most careful ones and you can clearly see from his examples the good and bad of lenses and cameras.
It's only that his comments are somewhat a stretch... when a Canon is good he says... "it's good" and when a Nikon is good he says "it's amazingly GREAT!".
p.10 #10 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Marco wrote:
It's only that his comments are somewhat a stretch... when a Canon is good he says... "it's good" and when a Nikon is good he says "it's amazingly GREAT!".
p.10 #11 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
fracas wrote:
I add to Carsten post that Lloyd writes that 5d3 has a green cast, that you have to correct with +12 magenta tint, at least looking at the files in ACR
He also mentions that the Nikon has a green cast requiring +8, so there isn't a world of difference there. I am more considering the comments he makes about after correction. Essentially he says the 5DIII colours are very boring and uninteresting and he felt uninspired by them, whereas he raves about the D800 colours. This is more what I mean.
As for Lloyd being a Nikon fan, I add that he is very objective comparing d800 and 5d3 autofocus: he finds canon AF excellent even with 85/1.2 and Nikon AF absolutely inconsistent, also with regard to central focus point (not to speak to lateral focus points)
He mentions that *all* his tested Nikkors back-focus by quite a bit. At this point I think it is a safe bet to say that he should get his D800 looked at, but seriously. After that has been done, the comparisons could start again, but not before.
p.10 #12 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Lars Johnsson wrote:
He also write that the many readers like to change from Canon to Nikon because the D 800 has interchangeable focus screens and the 5D3 don't have it.
And that Brightscreen makes a lot of screens for the D 800.
Both cameras are exactly the same both with the BrightScreen offers and with their own screens
p.10 #13 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
carstenw wrote:
I would be interested to hear 5DIII owner comments on the colour. Here is a quote from the Lloyd Chambers D800 preview:
"I am glad I shoot both Nikon and Canon— the Canon gear can stay in the drawer with silica gel for long term storage. Having recently reviewed the Canon 5D Mark III, the difference in color and detail isn’t even in the same league; the D800 is so far ahead that the 5DM3 simply does not merit consideration for those considering one or the other. I am reluctant to say that so explicitly, but because it is the best way I know to serve my readers, it must be said."
I know that Lloyd is a long-time Nikon fan, but this quote goes quite a bit further than his usual comments, making me wonder about the colour of the 5DIII. The recent Nikons, D3x excepted, have been nothing special with regards to colour, perhaps handling reds better than Canons in general, but handling greens worse. The D800 looks to be a departure from this state, which I am very happy about, since I have one on order, and was worried about the colour....Show more →
Lloyd has been a long time anti-Canon pro-Nikon guy. I remember back when the D3X came out he had a post where he tried to compare two landscape shots for color between the D3X and the 5d2. The lighting in the shots had obviously changed between the two shots (it was a mostly cloudy day looking shot with the sky color being reflected in the pond) and he obviously had used two different WB pts. for the two shots. When I sent him email on that he just brushed it off and said the D3x has better color and that was that.
I didn't renew my membership with his reviews because I didn't like him splitting things off his DAP to new separate paid review sections like he did with the Leica stuff. I also just got tired of his biases and usual lousy light not-too exciting test/review images.
He would be better served to be a little more objective and not always have this biased rating system like people have mentioned already above in this thread.
I am trying to follow the D800(E) performance and the 5d3 but since I already have 1ds3, the D800(E) is more what I am interested in getting for landscapes.
I have found this guy's blog and review of D800 to be excellent and his photography skills are obviously much better than Lloyd's (I know, that is not saying much. ) but he has given his thoughts on how various Nikon lenses and his one ZF 28/2 are working on the D800 with its tougher 36MP IQ requirements of lenses used on it.
Here is his blog site:
I asked him how he thought the D800 color compares to the D3x and he said it was better which I thought was interesting since I thought the opposite from just seeing the few D800 images posted so far on the web.
To me the 5d3 colors are the same as 5d2 and don't look much different.
p.10 #14 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Very cool link, Wayne, thanks for that. I am starting to be thankful that I didn't get a camera from the first batch, but if something needs modifying in the design, I might be waiting a while. Thankfully I didn't sell my D3 yet, although I did think I had a buyer at one point.
But the Nikon site say it only have the standard screen. (Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark VIII screen with AF area brackets and framing grid) And they don't have any other screens in the accessories either. So I don't belive that.
p.10 #17 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
DOF manipulation has been an integral creative and technical aspect of photography since it's early days.
So what I'm sincerely having a really hard time understanding is, how can Canon can bring to market a body that is targeted at serious enthusiasts and pros (who don't need the superfast shooting speeds of the 1 series or the large, heavy form factor), that does not allow you to accurately see your DOF if you are using an aperture than f/4?
At this point I'm not even talking about manual focusing ease, but about looking through the VF and being able to see the DOF for composition and shooting.
Can someone help me understand why Canon would think that having an accurate representation of your DOF is not important if shooting faster than f/4?
p.10 #18 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Lars Johnsson wrote:
But the Nikon site say it only have the standard screen. (Type B BriteView Clear Matte Mark VIII screen with AF area brackets and framing grid) And they don't have any other screens in the accessories either. So I don't belive that.
It does sound weird, but maybe they just don't have the screens ready yet? I guess when the second screen type shows up we will know for sure.
Apr 12, 2012 at 03:02 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #19 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Siddhu wrote:
DOF manipulation has been an integral creative and technical aspect of photography since it's early days.
So what I'm sincerely having a really hard time understanding is, how can Canon can bring to market a body that is targeted at serious enthusiasts and pros (who don't need the superfast shooting speeds of the 1 series or the large, heavy form factor), that does not allow you to accurately see your DOF if you are using an aperture than f/4?
At this point I'm not even talking about manual focusing ease, but about looking through the VF and being able to see the DOF for composition and shooting.
Can someone help me understand why Canon would think that having an accurate representation of your DOF is not important if shooting faster than f/4?...Show more →
This maybe can help you. And explain a bit also. It's a copy of some of stargazer78 posts in another forum here, where he explained it.
""The lack of interchangeable focusing screens is a direct result of the new viewfinder with on-demand grid & AF point overlays. That is the reason why almost all modern Nikon dSLRs do not support interchangeable focusing screens. The Nikon D300, D7000, D700, D800... even the new D4 does not support it.
So when Canon decided to copy Nikon's on-demand screen overlays for the EOS 7D, I was not at all surprised when the 7D also lost user-interchangeable focusing screens. The same limitations apply to the 5D3 now. There are a handful of exceptions: The 1DX supposedly allows for interchangeable screens, as did the Nikon D3s (but not the D4).
According to Canon, it is technically possible for replace the focusing screens on these cameras. However, the process is much more delicate than it was with traditional viewfinders, and the process renders internal components very susceptible to damage from user error. That is the reason why Nikon & Canon opted not to offer user-interchangeable focusing screens. However, this does not prevent 3rd party companies from offering to do it for you. This is what Nikon users have been doing for years.""
p.10 #20 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
EDIT (regarding potential AF issues of the D800)
It probably not solely an AF issue. An integral part is likely to be the pixelpitch. I have several lenses which I see performing better on the 5D2 (FF 21MP) than on the NEX 5N (APS-C 16MP, same pixelpitch as the D800 - ie much higher than the 5D2).
When Canon released the 7D I got it (APS-C with the same pixelpitch equivalent to a 44MP FF) and did not like what I saw when pixel-peeping the result some (good) lenses.
Several factors are involved, one being the resolution limit of a lens. Some lenses will cope, some wont. The second is a mix of usage factors. Nikon users used to 12MP are more likely to get more disappointed than e.g. 5D2 owners taking the step as it is - frankly - hell of a step going from 12 to 36MP. Nikon users with 12MP bodies claiming their AF is dead-on has no experience of high pixel pitch and dont know what it means.
The D800 will act like a strong magnification glass compared to e.g. the D700. Both for judging the precision in AF and also much more easily reveal less-than-perfect usage such as micro-shakes coming from slightly too long shutter times or too large apertures. Or in the case of MF, finally find out that the slight misfocus the D700 forgave the D800 wont tolerate. These things are exactly what the Canon 7D revealed compared to the 5D2.
Now, higher resolution is not a bad thing, as long as it does not cost ISO performance, DR or anything else which normally are considered paramount things. The final product, being it a websized image or a print will look as good. And - when the lens allows and a perfect handled situation - it will deliver a higher detailed image. The promo crops we've seen are of that nature. Real world - we have yet to see.
---
Siddhu, I can see no reason beyond cost (and perhaps ignorance for people like us) why Canon let go of the interchangeable screen. I guess most people (97%?) do use AF. EDIT: Lars had additional info..
Otherwise there's a new button on the left side of the body that does the zooming. And yes, I'm getting 8+ out of all photos I take, no matter what lens - and 8 of my 9 lenses are manual focus primes, of which two are f/1.4's (50+85). 
) but he has given his thoughts on how various Nikon lenses and his one ZF 28/2 are working on the D800 with its tougher 36MP IQ requirements of lenses used on it.