p.4 #1 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
calvininjax wrote:
Given your photographs, Bob, and Philber's hands-on experience, one wonders what Lloyd Chambers was thinking to make the statement that he did. I have often thought he was more of Nikon man. I guess tribal loyalties got the better of him on this occasion.
It just goes to show you can never believe what is written on the Internet.
+1
He has blasted Canon for years now. He doesn't like the M9 because it doesn't have liveview but doesn't understand the problems with CCD sensors having LV, they would have to do something like the Phase One backs do now.
He doesn't like that the LV zoom buttons got moved to the left side but doesn't check the manual where he would find out that you can program/customize the buttons to change their function, or at least that is what I read somewhere you can do.
Way to much drama over ergo things, I understand people get set in their ways but let's have some perspective on it.
I think the best thing is to try these new cameras out yourself because everyone has their own value system and I rather just see how it works in my hands and see the results myself.
I am renting hopefully a D800 in a few weeks and see if it works for me and is worth getting.
I have 1ds3 now and 7D and old 5D and have more of an idea about the 5d3's performance and its would be pluses for me.
The only thing I am missing is a high iso solution, for which I may get a 5d3 sometime in the future. The 5d3's improvements in fps,AF, and dual card slots, are not as enticing to me since my 1ds3 has all that and 1ds3 is probably still a better low iso performer IQ wise, better color, no banding, etc.
Concerning the D800 I will see if the extra 8% increase in rez from 21 to 36 is worth it and whether its worsening color response numbers are really a concern. I wish they had made the D800 have a better color response (metamerism index) as I would only use it at low iso for landscape, which I want it optimized for. Screw the high iso performance, just use another camera for that purpose.
Maybe someone here in the forum who has both 5d3 or 5d2 and a D800 can post detailed landscape shots with both cameras using a Z* 21/2.8 lens. That difference is what I want to understand.
p.4 #2 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I've only had a few interactions with Lloyd, and they've really left me cold.
A couple years ago I asked if he tested lenses for coma in DAP and he wrote back to tell me that every modern lens is well corrected for coma, and what I call coma is actually a combination of other aberrations. He talked down to me and didn't answer my question at all.
Recently, he started pushing B&H's house brand gear (Vello/Pearstone/Impact/etc.) really hard and I wrote in to tell him that I had a Pearstone charger that overheated and melted (and no doubt would've set my book shelf on fire if I hadn't moved it the day before), and that personally I wouldn't buy any B&H house brand gear that ran on AC power. He posted my comment, but removed the bit about how I wouldn't buy any B&H stuff that ran on house current.
p.4 #3 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
wayne seltzer wrote:
Concerning the D800 I will see if the extra 8% increase in rez from 21 to 36 is worth it...
Of course there is more to it than just the numbers but I do believe you will certainly see the resolution difference with a good lens and technique as it's closer to a 30 percent increase, than 8 percent.
sq. root of (36/22) = 1.279
Mar 29, 2012 at 09:28 PM
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p.4 #4 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
calvininjax wrote:
Given your photographs, Bob, and Philber's hands-on experience, one wonders what Lloyd Chambers was thinking to make the statement that he did. I have often thought he was more of Nikon man. I guess tribal loyalties got the better of him on this occasion.
It just goes to show you can never believe what is written on the Internet.
Lloyds first hands-on experience with the ZE 35/1,4 was about the same. With that lens it was also nearly impossible to get correct focus when using large apertures
p.4 #5 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Of course there is more to it than just the numbers but I do believe you will certainly see the resolution difference with a good lens and technique as it's closer to a 30 percent increase, than 8 percent.
sq. root of (36/22) = 1.279
Yes, 28%, sorry I blew the calculation,was remembering the formula wrong, long day at work.
Anyway, you mostly only see it at large print sizes, probably not with forum posts. .
I remember seeing side by side 24 inch prints made with 1ds3 and Phase One P40 and the difference seemed more about the better tonal and color response of the P40 and less about the extra resolution even though you could obviously see that too
. We will see with the 36MP D800 and D800E.
Lastly why doesn't Canon or Nikon make two versions of a camera, one with the best and thickest CFA's for landscape and then one with the thin CFA's that they are using this generation for high iso shooting? Couldn't this be done similar to D800/E with/without AA?
p.4 #6 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
magiclight wrote:
My previous camera was a 1DS3. The focus confirmation on the 5D3 is great. much more accurate than the 1DS3. You can also use the center focus point as confirmation too. Not just the green dot.
It sounds like you didn't find CF III-12 = 2, which makes the 1Ds Mk III do that. The focus points are then invisible but light red when AF is attained, going out if you overshoot. The green dot stays on longer, for what seems to be a fixed period ~ 0.5s.
One edge case use which may still be a problem with using AF confirmation instead of the screen is lenses which focus shift. The 1Ds Mk III disables AF confirmation when the depth of field preview is held down. Those with the ZE lenses with focus shift should probably check what the 5D Mk III does! (I don't consider it a problem with my Canon 50mm f/1.2 because I would never shoot at the distance and aperture it occurs at. Canon probably think the same.)
p.4 #9 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
wayne seltzer wrote:
He doesn't like that the LV zoom buttons got moved to the left side but doesn't check the manual where he would find out that you can program/customize the buttons to change their function, or at least that is what I read somewhere you can do.
Way to much drama over ergo things, I understand people get set in their ways but let's have some perspective on it.
Hasn't every single Canon DSLR since or even before the D30 had the zoom buttons on the right, combined with the AEL and * buttons? I don't understand why Canon felt it was necessary to move them to the left in an array of buttons where you can't find it by touch, so I agree that it's a stupid move. The thumb buttons have always worked fine to zoom when viewing your shots or when using Live View. The only thing I can imagine is that it was done to somehow tune the camera even more for video shooting.
p.4 #10 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
wayne seltzer wrote:
Yes, 28%, sorry I blew the calculation,was remembering the formula wrong, long day at work.
Anyway, you mostly only see it at large print sizes, probably not with forum posts. .
I remember seeing side by side 24 inch prints made with 1ds3 and Phase One P40 and the difference seemed more about the better tonal and color response of the P40 and less about the extra resolution even though you could obviously see that too
. We will see with the 36MP D800 and D800E.
Lastly why doesn't Canon or Nikon make two versions of a camera, one with the best and thickest CFA's for landscape and then one with the thin CFA's that they are using this generation for high iso shooting? Couldn't this be done similar to D800/E with/without AA?
Yes, I'm curious to see if I will notice the difference in color between my old A900 and the D800. If one goes by DxO, the MF cameras are not really better than the D800 in color response. The Sony's seem to do the best by comparison. I guess the market does not demand better and perhaps the gain in color response is not easily noticeable versus the lower noise.
With proper technique, I do expect you will easily see a difference in smaller sizes - certainly in 24 inch prints - with a good higher resolution image downsampled versus an image at close to native size. The gain comes from the jump in dynamic range, better tonal transitions and better detail that results when a large image is downsampled. Joakim/ TheSuede has noted this many times and shown examples that were easily visible even at web sizes.
p.4 #13 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
obik wrote:
I've only had a few interactions with Lloyd, and they've really left me cold.
A couple years ago I asked if he tested lenses for coma in DAP and he wrote back to tell me that every modern lens is well corrected for coma, and what I call coma is actually a combination of other aberrations. He talked down to me and didn't answer my question at all.
Recently, he started pushing B&H's house brand gear (Vello/Pearstone/Impact/etc.) really hard and I wrote in to tell him that I had a Pearstone charger that overheated and melted (and no doubt would've set my book shelf on fire if I hadn't moved it the day before), and that personally I wouldn't buy any B&H house brand gear that ran on AC power. He posted my comment, but removed the bit about how I wouldn't buy any B&H stuff that ran on house current....Show more →
p.4 #14 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
rji2goleez wrote:
I haven't tried this yet but I have taken some quick pics in live view and reaching AF Confirmation with the green square. Seemed to work fine. That's not the same as what you (Lloyd Chambers) are saying but I will be shooting with live view and seeing for myself.
Here's two images using AF confirmation with Live View. ISO 12800 with the 24-105 kit lens
p.4 #16 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
When in LV, half press the shutter until the big rectangle goes green. When it turns green, it indicates AF confirm. It's s-l-o-w! Better than the 5D2 but think of the autofocus of a camcorder . . . I don't use it very much but for static objects or where I am trying to be discrete, it can work well.
p.4 #20 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
wfrank wrote:
Thanks Bob for all samples. If it had a swivel screen I wouldnt have hesitated anymore. Star-button or not
You may (or may not) want to have a look on this hands-on comparison 5D3 / D800
Thanks, for this link! I found some of his jokes pretty funny, especially the part about the resolution of the D800 being so good that you can zoom in and see Lady Gaga's man sacs!
