p.14 #1 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Sorry hijack this interesting discussion - just a question on AF confirm with dandelion chipped adapters and old lenses. Is this still as good, or is it much less accurate than a built-for-canon MF lens?
p.14 #2 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I completely, fully and wholeheartedly agree with the below summary!!!!
People photography, especially street photography is very different to photographing landscapes and static objects where you can allow for not-so-super perfect focus. Eyes should be in focus and with WA lens, such as 35 mm on a FF and without ability to see precisely where your focus is, it is almost impossible.
There is a big difference between a portrait photographer with 100mm and 35 mm. With 100 mm you isolate the subject and so you have a lot less distracting items in your frame to judge how accurate the focus is. With 35 mm you frame a bigger scene and so judging whether eyes of a person are in focus is super difficult.
With EG-s it was a bit easier, but AF-assist was completely useless on MKII.
So...if people say that it is easy to rely on AF-assist of MKIII, I would love to see images of people and specifically be able to judge whether eyes are perfectly in focus, when photographed wide open.
Siddhu wrote:
I'm going to jump into this discussion to point something out that is a crucial difference between Philber's and Lars's experiences on one side and Light Pilgrim's position (which I agree with):
Light Pilgrim is specifically speaking about shooting with the 35 f/1.4 wide open in a fast moving reportage/portrait style
Shooting static objects at f1.8, f2, or above, is not at all comparable. When I was testing the 5D3 with my ZE's, as soon as my aperture was above f2, the keeper rate was almost comparable to my old school shooting style of just using a VF.
The moment my 35 f1.4 was wide open, the keeper rate was practically non-existant compared to my 90% plus keepers (in terms of focus) with the 5D2 with the EG-S screen.
Arguing with Light Pilgrim about the suitability of the 5D3 for his style of shooting is pointless since shooting static objects stopped down, or even static object wide open is completely different.
It's obvious that there is, and/or there potentially can be an issue with the 5D3 and the ZE 35 f1.4 when shooting dynamic subjects wide open since two separate shooters are reporting the identical problem(s).
So I say to the naysayers who say that this is due to us being luddites, inexperienced, not wanting to learn technology or cheap i.e go out and buy a 1Dx body (Yeah, I'm talking to you Lars), spend a few days shooting in our style with the 35 f1.4 wide open, and then report back as to what was your keeper rate using the AF confirm on the 5D3.
BTW; Why would we go out of our way to trash the 5D3? I was ready to buy a 5D3, but since my experience using the 5D3 for my style of shooting, I repeat MY style of shooting was abysmal, I've held off. Yes it works fine above f2 with my 100mm Makro Planar, my Summicron R, and the 35 1.4 stopped down, but for my favourite way of shooting, my preferred subject matter, it's does not work for ME. ...Show more →
p.14 #3 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Being France-based makes it difficult to do reportage, because French law prevents one from taking pictures of people unless they have given you a signed release. But, in order to verify what Light Pilgrim contends, I will try. It will be another opportunity to shoot the ZE 35 f1.4 wide open. At the time I got mine, from the first batch delivered by Zeiss in Europe, I wrote in my review that it was actually much easier to focus wide open than I feared. Let's see if this statement stands the test of time and the switch to 5D III. But, in any case, getting perfectly focused eyes is a really tough level of expectation from an MF lens. If Light Pilgrim got a good keeper rate at this with his 5D II and ZE 35 f:1.4, my hat off to him!
For the EOS 5DMKIII as well as for the MarkII, we recommend to use a better focusing screen. Such focusing screens (with split-screen image and microprism collar) are offered by Brightscreen for both camera models.
The new AF system of the MarkIII allows a more detailed micro adjustment, but the accuracy of any AF system is still not good enough to focus a f/1.4 lens (at full aperture) precisely enough for high expectations.
p.14 #5 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I personally find being re-tied to AF points as a positive being a weird one. My way of shooting since getting into MF lenses has changed so much that I compose and focus in a way that is at odds with using AF points. Its good to hear that they're accurate though but if I was to buy a camera that doesn't correctly represent Depth of Field at larger apertures and you find you're totally reliant on AF points to nail focus I'd rather get an AF lens.
p.14 #7 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
joxang wrote:
Sorry hijack this interesting discussion - just a question on AF confirm with dandelion chipped adapters and old lenses. Is this still as good, or is it much less accurate than a built-for-canon MF lens?
p.14 #8 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
bluetsunami wrote:
I personally find being re-tied to AF points as a positive being a weird one.
BT, what I represented on this thread is that the new accuracy of the 5D III AF confirm lets me do things that were impossible with 5D II, and, in particular, shoot wide open even when it is too dark to focus by eye. I did quite a bit of that in Patagonia rainforests, for example. I said that, for me and my style of photography, it increased my keeper rate at wide apertures to the point that it was a game changer. But it doesn't mean that the camera is a answer to everyone's every need.
But, in your case, while I understand that being tied to AF points is not ideal, when it is just plain too dark for a VF, it's all you got, and, with 5D III, it is all you need...
p.14 #9 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
philber wrote:
... I understand that being tied to AF points is not ideal, when it is just plain too dark for a VF, it's all you got, and, with 5D III, it is all you need...
Being tied to AF points is a huge negative for me. Might as well use AF
p.14 #10 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
philber wrote:
BT, what I represented on this thread is that the new accuracy of the 5D III AF confirm lets me do things that were impossible with 5D II, and, in particular, shoot wide open even when it is too dark to focus by eye. I did quite a bit of that in Patagonia rainforests, for example. I said that, for me and my style of photography, it increased my keeper rate at wide apertures to the point that it was a game changer. But it doesn't mean that the camera is a answer to everyone's every need.
But, in your case, while I understand that being tied to AF points is not ideal, when it is just plain too dark for a VF, it's all you got, and, with 5D III, it is all you need... ...Show more →
Not to disparage how others shoot and that does sound very useful in that scenario. Just wishing Canon didn't feel the need to take a step forward and then back. Fortunately it sounds like the screen itself can be switched out and that would certainly be the best of both worlds.
p.14 #12 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Light_Pilgrim - that's a simply beautiful shot of your daughter!
I have been reading this thread from the start.
After owning my 5D Mk III for one week, and with only shooting at weekends here at this time of year due work, I have shot about 1100 images. I should also add that it is only half way through this second weekend! I love this, my first full-frame digital!
From this large number of shots, only about 10 of these have been with a 135/2 L lens, and about 400 with my converted Contax N 70-300, many shot with MF.
I have rarely received an audible tone when using MF lenses and I have seen an AF point light up even more rarely. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? Advice sought!
p.14 #13 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Do you mean all your shots are out of focus?
You need to set the diopter really carefully, and then with chipped lenses, you can use the AF adjust to set the deviation very carefully under controlled conditions for each lens. After that, it should work. You could also get a better focusing screen, but for the 5DIII I don't know what to recommend.
p.14 #14 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
No, just that I seldom get the focus confirmation of either a green dot, AF point lighting up, or audible chirp. I do however seem to achieve focus in a high percentage of my shots.
I am happy with my results re focus, however from the trend of the discussion on this thread I'm just not getting that same feel good factor re focus confirmation. I shot with a 1D Mk III before this with an Ee-S (?) screen retrofitted.
p.14 #15 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Allow me to jump in with some trivial lens information.
Absolutely love Samyang 85 on the 5D MkIII.
Additionally, now trying to master CY 45/2.8. While it doesn't cause mirror slap as it would on 5DC and 5D MkII at infinity, it does cause mirror hang. Shooting in LiveView mode works a treat.
PS I also shoot CY35/1.4 WO in clubs (a lot of pole dancing and go-go performances) and am quite satisfied with keeper ratio. What buggers it up, is my obsessive compulsive re-focusing after each shot.
But I am in therapy for that atm..
p.14 #16 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
First of all, I need to say THANK YOU for running the test:-) Very kind of you:-) At the same time, I hope you are enjoying it yourself and not only doing it for us/me for the sake of this test:-)
I will need to gently and politely disagree - it is not the same. Yes, I can say what is in focus and what is not, but eyes, are so small compares to the total frame considering the fact that you are using 35mm and you also need to think about the composition overall. All in all, I still think it is much more complex to get eyes perfectly in focus time and time again.
I have also written a question to"thedigitalpicture.com" as they have PHENOMENAL review of 5D MKIII and also Zeiss 35 f/1.4 ZE. They promised to test them together and come back in few days. Let's see:-)
philber wrote:
In deference to Light_Pilgrim's issue, I tried ZE 35 f:1.4 wide open in street shots, without the very limiting parameters allowed by French law.
Here is one, which is fully legal, because the person cannot be identified. However, detail on the head-scarf allows control of where the focus was. And, lest you think this was a stationary shot where I had all the time in the world to focus, the person only held this position long enough to beg from each passer-by before "unfolding" again.
I focused it by AF confirm, and it was easy, at least as easy as with ZE 85. Though, I should say that the depth of field exceeds an eyelash, so I can say that I would have gotten the eye in focus, but cannot say if I would have gotten "the eye and the eye only" if such had been my intent. I will take my camera to my church year-end barbecue today to see if I can get more experience "a-la-Light_Pilgrim". But weather sucks.....Show more →
p.14 #17 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Actually, Light_Pilgrim, I only shoot ZE35 @1.4 when I need it, because of the fairly visible vignetting and reduced contrast. I much prefer shooting it at f:1.8. But that is just me.
Though, as promised, I did it in church yesterday. My keeper rate was around 50%, meaning every second shot was not perfectly in focus for whatever reason (subject moVed, I moved, poor focus). As I shot around 4 pics of each person, I am fine with this. I cannot say that it would have been better with 5DII. And definitely easier than ZE 85 IMHO. You are right in saying it is easier to find focus with the 85, but it is so much harder to keep it, that the overall keeper rate is lower.
p.14 #18 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
philber wrote:
Actually, Light_Pilgrim, I only shoot ZE35 @1.4 when I need it, because of the fairly visible vignetting and reduced contrast. I much prefer shooting it at f:1.8. But that is just me.
Though, as promised, I did it in church yesterday. My keeper rate was around 50%, meaning every second shot was not perfectly in focus for whatever reason (subject moVed, I moved, poor focus). As I shot around 4 pics of each person, I am fine with this. I cannot say that it would have been better with 5DII. And definitely easier than ZE 85 IMHO. You are right in saying it is easier to find focus with the 85, but it is so much harder to keep it, that the overall keeper rate is lower....Show more →
Thanks for the work!
Depending on the light conditions, my keeper rate is around 50% at f/1.4-f/1.6 with this lens and 5D MKII, but I only rely on what I see, so no AF-confirm as it is super useless.
When I select f/1.8 of f/2.0 and I have good light, I think I will be around 70% with keepers.
In any case, it is not easy to photograph people with this lens, regardless on what you have (EG-s or not perfect AF-confirm)
p.14 #19 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I have contacted "thedigitalpicture.com" as I find their review the best of the best (personal opinion) and have asked a specific question regarding the combo (5D MKIII and Zeiss 35 f/1.4 ZE) and specifically how it works together with the new AF (AF confirm in this case).
So here is the answer and it is consistent with what Lloyd Chambers said:
"The testing shows that the 5D III is, overall, equivalent to the 1Ds Mark III in this regard. So, no improvement. The 5D III did perform slightly better when focusing from MFD toward infinity. The 1Ds III was slightly more balanced in its reading."
So with no opportunity to replace the standard focusing screen, 5D MKIII is a step backward.
Jun 05, 2012 at 11:13 AM
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p.14 #20 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Light_pilgrim wrote:
So with no opportunity to replace the standard focusing screen, 5D MKIII is a step backward.
Sorry, can't get ur point. Do u have any last gen. 1Ds/1D?
5D3 is a step backward compared to what - 5D2? What a nonsence? Or did 5D3 evolve from 1Ds line?
