agreed, though it does seem to have some imaging characteristics similar to fast sonnars. e.g. the CA and SA/focus shift, which actually look similar to what i see from my (actual) sonnar.
It is very odd naming a wide angle lens a Sonnar, particularly when one looks at the traditional Sonnar designs. Most Sonnars are telephoto lenses with the one exception I'm aware of with a "true" Sonnar based design being the ZM 50 1.5. Of course, Zeiss uses Vario-Sonnar for many zooms.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
It is very odd naming a wide angle lens a Sonnar, particularly when one looks at the traditional Sonnar designs. Most Sonnars are telephoto lenses with the one exception I'm aware of with a "true" Sonnar based design being the ZM 50 1.5. Of course, Zeiss uses Vario-Sonnar for many zooms.
there is also the original zeiss sonnar the zm is based on as well as the 50/2 sonnar and the rollei 40/2.8 sonnar.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
It is very odd naming a wide angle lens a Sonnar, particularly when one looks at the traditional Sonnar designs. Most Sonnars are telephoto lenses with the one exception I'm aware of with a "true" Sonnar based design being the ZM 50 1.5. Of course, Zeiss uses Vario-Sonnar for many zooms.
rollei 40/2.8
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Good catch. I'm guessing all those normal fov Sonnars are based on the traditional Sonnar design as well?
the sonnar design seems to be more poorly defined than planar (but better than distagon). all the 50mm lenses are very similar in design, not sure about the 40/2.8. there is much more variation on the telephoto end, but nothing that looks like the 24/1.8.
looks as if the designers had intimate low-light scenarios in mind, and the lens is fantastic at a meter--as sharp as anything I've seen---correct me here. Bokeh--normally moot at 24--but not so with close shots at 1.8--is pleasant or better. In its way it is a truely great lens, but it is not versitile. I think the Kit is better for landscape work at 24 no?
funny but the 30 has the same issue.
Jury is out on the 50, but it is quite sharp close too--I have seen that.
sebboh wrote:
the sonnar design seems to be more poorly defined than planar (but better than distagon). all the 50mm lenses are very similar in design, not sure about the 40/2.8. there is much more variation on the telephoto end, but nothing that looks like the 24/1.8.
Distagon's are all retrofocus designs, no? They have traditionally been wide angle lenses though there are examples which Zeiss mention that are telephoto (but still retrofocus in design).
"A Distagon is a wide-angle lens with a large distance to the image." Quoted from Zeiss in this paper (the same article mentions the special case telephoto Distagon):
It seems many of these traditional lens names, originally based on the lenses design and implementation, have been relaxed somewhat in recent times. Biogons were once true wide angles but current versions are often also slightly retrofocus. With most of these though, whether Biogon, Planar, Sonnar or Distagon, one can still often see at least a vague similarity to the design of the traditional versions. I'm sort of having trouble seeing that similarity with this wide angle Sonnar (but of course that does not mean it's not there - I'm not a lens designer afterall!).
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Distagon's are all retrofocus designs, no? They have traditionally been wide angle lenses though there are examples which Zeiss mention that are telephoto (but still retrofocus in design).
yes, but that is their only defining characteristic whereas planar, tessar, and sonnar designations actually say something about the layout of the elements.
sebboh wrote:
yes, but that is their only defining characteristic whereas planar, tessar, and sonnar designations actually say something about the layout of the elements.
Except apparently for this Sony E Sonnar wide angle 24 1.8 or do you see something in it's design which resembles other Sonnars?
Zeiss tend to use the names willy nilly as they see fit with zoom lenses. This is the first fixed focal length which I have seen which clearly doesn't conform to its name.
For me a Sonnar is large high power front convex group(s) with a correction in a small group at the rear and a close exit pupil relative to focal length. A relatively large effective aperture relative to size is also a characteristic.
I think the names are so classic that Zeiss doesn't want to disregard the design designation on a new lens, nor do they want to come up with something new.
actually, if you turn it around backwards it looks more sonnar like. maybe zeiss though it would be good to specify that the type of of telephoto they were reversing to make this particular distagon was a sonnar in order to indicate how it draws and what it's good for.
edit: i actually think it looks pretty good for what my primary use for it would be. i am just having troubled with the size and price given it's weaknesses. also, i find auto aperture/autofocus lenses much more ergonomically challenging on sony cameras (and kinda in general) than fully manual lenses.
sebboh wrote:
actually, if you turn it around backwards it looks more sonnar like. maybe zeiss though it would be good to specify that the type of of telephoto they were reversing to make this particular distagon...
I just wonder why they did not name it a Distagon. Perhaps someone at Sony screwed up when it came time to name it. I do think the rendering looks pretty good for the subject matter Jae has taken with it. I particularly like the way it has rendered light sources in the frame.
sebboh wrote:
actually, if you turn it around backwards it looks more sonnar like. maybe zeiss though it would be good to specify that the type of of telephoto they were reversing to make this particular distagon was a sonnar in order to indicate how it draws and what it's good for.
edit: i actually think it looks pretty good for what my primary use for it would be. i am just having troubled with the size and price given it's weaknesses. also, i find auto aperture/autofocus lenses much more ergonomically challenging on sony cameras (and kinda in general) than fully manual lenses....Show more →
Yeah, it looks to be a reverse Sonnar. To quote Iliah Borg, "Reversed Sonnar is still a Sonnar. Distagon is a reversed tele with a huge negative in front."
Feb 26, 2012 at 06:55 PM
