Schlotkins wrote:
I agree with the comparison and complaint. With that said, the new 5D hasn't been announced yet so perhaps it's a bit premature. It wasn't as if the 5DII didn't have any advantages over the D700 (mpx, video, etc).
Chris
+1
Yes it's really funny when they compare the new Nikon with the old 5DII. Compare it against the Canon replacement that we don't have the specs for yet.
Feb 07, 2012 at 08:12 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
gdanmitchell wrote:
Stop. Breath slowly and deeply. Relax. Chill.
You are comparing a three-year-old camera model with one that has been announced today and is not yet available. Unless you don't believe in product evolution, there are explanations besides incompetence and misleading/cheating customers that would account for the camera released three years later having improved features.
The Nikon sounds like a really great camera, and if I were a Nikon shooter I'd be all over it.
Pavel wrote:
Poor M Vers. Nothing inteligent to add and strong denial of the fact. Perhaps we could raise some money for him - as is the custom for the "slow" and and apparently disadvantaged among us is society?
And they're out in droves! Way to spell intelligent correctly, btw...
Yes it's really funny when they compare the new Nikon with the old 5DII. Compare it against the Canon replacement that we don't have the specs for yet.
Hey, Canon's the one that didn't bother to update the AF system in the 5d2.
michael49 wrote:
Hey, Canon's the one that didn't bother to update the AF system in the 5d2.
Not to argue, but what does that have to do the with D800? Again, the D800 isn't going to end up competing with the 5D MKII. The D700 did. And the 5d MKII had several advantages over that camera. For some people AF was more important than Mpx. That's fine - to each their own, but it wasn't a 'no brainer' to get the D700.
Why doesn't everyone wait to see what Canon announces in the next few weeks? If it's a POS, then free feel to complain away. I'm sure I will. But, it seems to me that Canon isn't stupid. In fact, the last rumor was that the 5D MKIII would have the 1DX AF. Would that make people happy?
This entire thread is rediculous. We don't have any idea what the specs or PERFORMANCE will be on Canon's repacement for the 5DII. Furthermore, if you are one of those folks, for whom a camera is nothing more than a piece of jewlery, by all means indulge yourself! It's good for Canon, the dealers and everyone else.The camera fans comprise an important market segment and Canon and Nikon know it. Without these folks there would be less inovation and competition and less good used equipment for sale.I for one hope that there is a mass exodus from Canon, before the new model is introduced. That will put a lot of good used Canon stuff in play and when the new Canon model arrives some folks will be swithching back. I used Nikon for 45+ years and swithched when the 5dII came out.I was very loyal to Nikon, having been one of their first tech reps. I'm very pleased with my current equipment, which fits my needs to a T. I don't envision swithching back any time in the future. Canon and Nikon will be leap frogging each other long into the future. The grass always looks greener on the other side until you can learn to tell the difference between what you want and what you need.
This thread is the perfect definition of "first world problems." Personally, I dont like it when Canon updates their products because they atomatically go from being just within reach for me to being way out of reach. I guess when they update the 5DII it'll drive the 5DII prices down and I'll happily pick one up. Must be the beers talking because I usually just read these and laugh....
I agree with Schlotkins and Jim Allison entirely. For all we know, Canon may currently be developing their version of the D800. Sure, it's fun to speculate and compare the two big brands but I don't see one company being 'better' than the other.
Canon is a company whose aim is to make a profit. I'm certain they're capable of making a compact do everything digital version of the 1V at a price point to suit everyone, but if we all had one camera that didn't need upgrading then Canon wouldn't have the profits to reinvest in designing the modern photographic tools we have today.
Also, I don't see what was so crippling with the 5DmkII. Moving from a 1N I find it's centre focus point and build are decent, it has excellent battery life, and a sensor capable of producing among the best 35mm format shots to date. If you want better AF go for a 7D (with its limitations) or a 1D series (lose resolution). If you want the best combination of frame rate, autofocus, build and image quality then buy a 1Ds3 or 1DX. Even the D800 doesn't have a particularly high frame rate and we don't know how good the autofocus is until the reviews start rolling in.
You get what you pay for and both Canon and Nikon both realise this. Horses for courses as they say.
Yeah, I always go back to the picture in my mind of the guy I saw in Chengdu, China last year that was strapped to a cart and pulling a load of bricks down a busy highway with a bicycle wheel on the back so it wouldn't tip over. Kinda puts that $3,000 camera in perspective for me.
Well said, mweddle. There's been too much bickering about what products big corporations should spoil us with. We should work more on being artists than gearheads and appreciate the lucky position we have in today's world.
chez wrote:
Dan, are you saying you would not love to have a 36mpix camera for large landscape prints? I know I would love it.
Oh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. If Canon produces one, there is a very good chance that I'll get one since I feel that the current 21MP resolution tends to start pushing the boundaries of really high quality prints above about 20" x 30".
(That said, I also feel that the full frame format is limited by other factors at some point, and if one want to go a lot larger in prints merely increasing sensor MP won't get you there. Eventually it is useful to move to larger formats, though doing so requires the photographer to make certain other sacrifices. But, frankly, this is a moot point for most folks, who will never make a high quality 20" x 30" print, much less anything larger.)
It really looks to me like the D800 is going to be a dynamite camera for Nikon shooters who can make use of the new 36MP sensor - e.g. those who are very careful shooters, working from the tripod, using excellent lenses, and making prints at the upper boundary of what can be done with full frame DSLRs.
I won't be buying one. Not because I think Canon is better than Nikon or some such silliness. In reality I'm confident that both Nikon and Canon make great camera equipment. It happens that I use Canon, but I'd be equally happy if it happened that I used Nikon. The reasons include:
1. I've got a full set of lenses, etc. for my Canon gear, and I'm not up for replacing all of that stuff.
2. While the D800 approaches my "double the MP and I'm interested" rule, the real effect on my prints would not be as big as some might imagine.
3. Brand switching is generally not very rewarding or productive. While today brand x may introduce some really fine and enviable technology, soon brand y will counter with something equally compelling. In the long run, both are excellent.
Please note that I'm not raving that "Canon is better than Nikon," or "who needs 36MP?" or any of the rest of it. And when any brand produces an improved product, all photographers potentially benefit when other brands have to complete on features.
I agree with the OP in general. Canon has continued to worry about segmenting their market at the expense of amateur photographers who can't afford the top end gear. The 7D was probably the first big change in that strategy, but I don't believe it would have even existed if not for the XXD series being seriously beaten by the D300.
I agree that the 5D Mark II was purposefully limited when released for market segmentation. I also believe that it sold exceptionally well due to its strengths and despite its limitations. I definitely believe that it would have truly made history if it would have taken a similar approach to the D700, but with the same great sensor and video.
Pavel wrote:
Poor M Vers. Nothing inteligent to add and strong denial of the fact. Perhaps we could raise some money for him - as is the custom for the "slow" and and apparently disadvantaged among us is society?
Oh, there you go, once again raising the level of discourse in these forums.
Jim Victory wrote:
I have stated before that I have shot Canon for 46 years and I really like the glass Canon offers but they seem to be off track with their body development.
I have watched the leap frogging over the years with Nikon and I have stayed on board knowing that it would swing around again but the gap is starting to get too big.
Yes my current arsenal works just fine but I'm always interested in something better and it has nothing to do with how good a photographer I may be but rather staying competitive in the market place for my customer's sake and mine.
Artsupreme has a point about the fact that Nikon has two generations of the D700 and now D800 with features found in their Pro line and Canon has yet to introduce any camera with these features except their Pro line. I simply don't understand why Canon continues to follow this trend and I'm not the only long time user that is getting fed up.
Canon is not behind. The d800 is only anounced, its not out.
-- the 1dx will likey meet or exceed the D3s in ISO capability. It already has more mpx.
-- a new 5dii will likely match the d800 in mpx. It already matches the d3x in ISO.
-- the 1div has more reach than any of the high end Nikons. Nikon does not have a competitor here.
Nikon has moved ahead in peoples minds because:
-- the have produced ff cameras to compete with 1div. The tigher spacing on 1div pixels means it has more reach but less iso capability. Compariing 1div vs d3s its a trade off between more reach/pixels on canon vs 1 stop advantage on Nikon. Anyone who compares and concludes d3s is better is spending much much more on lens to get 30% more reach. Its just a design choice.
-- comparing D3x to 5dii, its marginal difference on ISO, and marginal difference on mpx. Most of the difference is in timing of when they were introduced.
-- The new D800, is just upping the mpx, which will likely mean ISO stays flat with d3x. Canon can easily match this with an updated 5diii.
Its all about reach, mpx, and iso. Larger mpx reduces iso. More reach reduces ISO. Reach is reach.
So Nikon is not ahead in their current line up but just has a different strategy. Better ISO and less mpx. With the d800, they are offering a choice of mpx or ISO capability - you choose. Canon has a response, idx (ISO) and 5diii(mpx), and 1div (reach).
I just hope thier delay is waiting for Nikon to fix their production line so Canon can one up them in their retooling rather than Canon has a challenge in beating or matching them.
he 1div has more reach than any of the high end Nikons. Nikon does not have a competitor here.
1D4 is longer than D800 at 15.XMP in 1.5x crop mode? I don't think so (but definitely wins the FPS race).
Unless you were talking about current bodies available...but nobody moans and complains about the old stuff, it's all about being mad about the new stuff!
coffeyboy wrote:
You get what you pay for and both Canon and Nikon both realise this. Horses for courses as they say.
Except that Nikon now has a horse that is suitable for many courses that makes Canon's current horse look like a tired old nag. I'm eagerly awaiting Canon's next horse. I would like to be able to ride it on many courses as well.
And they're out in droves! Way to spell intelligent correctly, btw...