trolling, trolling, trolling
through the threads a swollen
keep them fanbois rolling raw shooter
rain and wind and weather, I've got a bent for leather
wishing a Nikon was by my side
my AF has me pissing, my outer points keep missing
all I got is bitchin' awaiting at the end of my day
Just had a funny experience. Friends of mine shoot Nikon. One of them started a FB discussion about the D800... and there was a great deal of consternation and hand-wrining by the Nikon folks about the potential disappearance of the D700 and how they would prefer its feature set over the 36MP sensor of the D800.
I second the observation about the irony of a post like the one I reference going on and on about irrational fanboy behavior. Again... slow down. Breath deeply. Relax. It isn't the end of the world... ;-)
gdanmitchell wrote:
I second the observation about the irony of a post like the one I reference going on and on about irrational fanboy behavior. Again... slow down. Breath deeply. Relax. It isn't the end of the world... ;-)
Dan
You haven't been around long enough to witness it Dan...and it's okay if your center point works fine for you. Note there just a "few" photographers out there who use their outer points like you use your centerpoint, and have been bashed repeatedly on this forum over the years for wanting a legit AF system. No one is breathing hard except for you
Canon, a self-proclaimed class leader, isn't going to sit around forever doing nothing and watch Nikon banking in with their recent release like the D800, it's just a matter of time before they do something about the gap...the come back better be shock and awe dammit.
I can't believe the number of people that are blindly defending Canon for putting a crappy AF system in a camera that was released in excess of $3K, when Nikon had a a better AF system in their D200/D300 series cameras.
Frankly, I really don't give a damn about having 36mp that the new D800 has. 21mp is more then enough for me. What i do find frustrating is the AF in the 5D and 5DII.
I was a big fan of Canon's ettl flash back when i was shooting with the EOS 3 and EOS 1vHS, however, Nikon's flash system that was introduced with the F4 has blown away Canon's flash and metering system and it took what, 8 years for Canon to respond with a better flash/metering system upgrade now with the 1DX. But I can live with both the metering and flash exposure system, because I know how it works and have gotten used to it.
There are other nitpicks, I liked having the 1/300 flash synch on previous pro bodies, now Canon has reverted back to 1/250. Again, it would be nice to have the higher synch (not just in the High speed flash mode), but as i've said, these are nitpicks i can live with.
The AF difference is inexcusable. When Nikon offered the same or very similar AF in their D200/D300/D700 and now D800 as their flagship, it was inexcusable for Canon giving the AF that the 5DII had. i could understand Canon in their arrogance of limiting the AF on the original 5D, since their really was no competition from Nikon at the time. however, by the time the 5DII came out, there is no way in hell that they should have released the 5DII with the AF system it has.
I'm a LONG time Canon user who switched from Nikon to Canon after only 8 months with Nikon, mainly because of reliability issues I had with the Nikon F-801 (had to send it in to Nikon Canada 4 times - they had it for around 4 months, but refuesed to replace it). I've had the following Canon cameras over the years:
-EOS 10s
-EOS A2E
-EOS 7e
-EOS 3
-Eos 1vHS
-EOS 1D2N
-EOS 5D
-EOS 1DIII
-EOS 5DII (two of them)
-EOS 1DIV
So its not like I'm a canon basher. I'm also not blind fanboy who isn't afraid to call a spade a spade. The AF they released in the 5DII is inexcusable.
The only time i've been more pissed at Canon was with the 1DIII which couldn't focus worth shit and then everytime I sent it to Canon, they had their head in the sand in denial mode. It took them around 9 months to admit the mistake and when I finally sold the lemon before the last recall they had.
That was the only time I thought long and hard to go to Nikon and the only reason i didn't was that I had experienced the same frustration with the one Nikon camera I did own.
Despite the huge hit i took when selling my 1DIII, I'm more pissed off about the AF in the 5DII. Love everything about the camera, except the AF. I ended up getting a second one, after selling my 1DIII, becuase I needed two bodies. But hated the AF so much, that I sold it after the 1DIV came out and I was comfortable that they addressed the 1DIII AF issues.
Now that they have finally released a 1D series full frame that isn't $9k-10K, I will replace my 5DII with the 1DX. But it would be nice to have a smaller full frame that has a PRO AF system. If the next 5DII doesn't have an AF system at least as good as the 7D, there should be some majore firings at Canon.
trolling, trolling, trolling
through the threads a swollen
keep them fanbois rolling raw shooter
rain and wind and weather, I've got a bent for leather
wishing a Nikon was by my side
my AF has me pissing, my outer points keep missing
all I got is bitchin' awaiting at the end of my day
3 years ago I decided to buy a new body that fits my needs (15-20MP and usable ISO 3200). I had to purchase a 5D MK II, because no other manufacturer offered what I needed. There was 5D MK II and ... nothing (D3X was ISO 1600 and more than 3 times the price).
Today there is no more gear outside. It is exactly the same situation for me. We just saw 3 new bodys "announced" within those years. 1D X, D4, and yesterday D800. Two of them could fullfill my three year old needs and the grown new ones. D4 and 1D X in specs. Iso 25k usable (and yes, I take better AF, better seal, even faster FPS).
Now Nikon showes they put stuff in a body at about $3.000. Nice. Canon should and will follow, I guess. Maybe one of them does it at 20MP (or even 24 or more) and ISO 25K?
That would fullfill my needs, my wishes, and my money bag.
Just because Nikon offers gear now that can compete even at lower prices that does not mean that they have something for me. Canon still has. My 5D II is still great. And for the moment if it would break I just would have buy a new one (at an unbeatable price).
D800 has changed the game at the 5D series price point. Changed it utterly as any new full frame body released by any manufacturer will be judged against the price and feature set of the D800.
In a way you could see affordable full frame DSLR history in terms of the release of the original 5D which created the sector, and the release of the D800 which represents the full maturing of the sector.
I am not a Nikon fanboi but the D800 looks unbeatable at anything like its price point. We await the release of the 5D3 with great interest. What is clear is that 18 mpx isn't going to cut the mustard!
I'm still surprised Sony let Nikon use their high MP sensor before they will use it themselves. Nikon must pay them a lot for this. In the end it may make business sense for Sony if Nikon manages to crush Canon.
Yes it sucks that Canon has refused to put 1 series AF in a body since EOS 3. But I do think they will remedy this with 5D III. I remember all the angst before 7D was announced and how they would never offer something like the D300. They need to be dragged kicking and screaming sometimes to change their entrenched conservatism, but they do seem to get there eventually, although it may take 2-3 generations. However, I would still be surprised if they offered much better than 7D AF, which would be disappointing. Anyway this is great news from Nikon and will bring a lot of pressure on Canon. My worry is just like the D700/D3 caught them off guard, this will maybe be too much to overcome in this refresh cycle.
D800 is obviously fantastic value for money and it'll take a lot from Canon to stop my eye wandering and I may consider it for landscape and macro work and some wildlife if 5D III is 18MP with 7D AF.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes it sucks that Canon has refused to put 1 series AF in a body since EOS 3. But I do think they will remedy this with 5D III. I remember all the angst before 7D was announced and how they would never offer something like the D300. They need to be dragged kicking and screaming sometimes to change their entrenched conservatism, but they do seem to get there eventually, although it may take 2-3 generations. However, I would still be surprised if they offered much better than 7D AF, which would be disappointing. Anyway this is great news from Nikon and will bring a lot of pressure on Canon. My worry is just like the D700/D3 caught them off guard, this will maybe be too much to overcome in this refresh cycle.
D800 is obviously fantastic value for money and it'll take a lot from Canon to stop my eye wandering and I may consider it for landscape and macro work and some wildlife if 5D III is 18MP with 7D AF....Show more →
ViscaB wrote:
I'm still surprised Sony let Nikon use their high MP sensor before they will use it themselves. Nikon must pay them a lot for this. In the end it may make business sense for Sony if Nikon manages to crush Canon.
From what I read on the Nikon page, it's a "Nikon-developed" FF sensor.
Now, what that means I don't know, but it could be similar to Cosina making some Leica (or is it Zeiss?) lenses -- they lens is most certainly Zeiss, but Cosina just puts the thing together.
Perhaps the same thing applies here - Nikon has developed this chip in-house and only gets Sony to fab the chip for them.
Let's remember, not all Nikon sensors have been Sony-designed or fabbed. Maybe Nikon didn't see Sony making a huge MP move any time soon and decided to design their own, then contracted Sony (or whoever) to fab them.
It will be interesting to see how much whining comes from the Nikon camp once the D800 starts shipping... this will be their first amateur DSLR with enough resolution to judge whether or not images are actually in focus...
kakomu wrote:
In all fairness, they put the 3-series AF in a 1 series body. The EOS-3 came out several years before the 1V and the 1N had a 5 point AF system.
You are 100% correct! I bought a new EOS 3 in 1998. It had a 45 point AF array with 7 cross points whereas the current pro model, 1N, only had a 5 point array with a single center cross. The 1V and 1D inherited the EOS 3 AF array years later...
molson wrote:
It will be interesting to see how much whining comes from the Nikon camp once the D800 starts shipping... this will be their first amateur DSLR with enough resolution to judge whether or not images are actually in focus...
I'm curious to see how lenses hold up at that high of MP count as well.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
I remember all the angst before 7D was announced and how they would never offer something like the D300. They need to be dragged kicking and screaming sometimes to change their entrenched conservatism,
You over-estimate the power of the squeaky wheels using the Internet Amplification Device. The only screaming is from the screaming ninnies who think Canon (and every other manufacturer) owes them a camera.
Canon does things in their own time, quite successfully.
They didn't make the first AutoFocus cameras. They didn't make the first Through-the-Lens metering systems. And so forth.
