deadwolfbones wrote:
I would surely have welcomed that if they'd chosen/been able to go that route. I can only assume they had reason not to, though.
I guess that is the real question, or least an interesting academic one.
I'm sure there was a reason, the question is was it a good reason! I know we all expect a fair bit of rational decision making to go into products and business decisions, but there are plenty of surprising examples in which this isn't the case. And of course examples of naysayers being wrong too...
Anyway, I think the reaction is pretty clear so far. Most "photographers" just aren't seeing the point to this. If Pentax can find a market for it and make it a business success more power to them!
kwalsh wrote:
Just stupid corporate thinking on their part. Create two still born lines that can only fail.
Ken
Yes, two big strikes by Pentax. I'm betting the next ball across the plate could be a solid triple when Ricoh comes out with the K mount module for the GXR. It would be pretty handy to have a camera with M mount and K mount modules - and maybe the new 24-85 zoom module for those times when only a zoom will do.
douglasf13 wrote:
I can't help it. I feel a bit of extra compulsion to criticize this camera, because it's one of the least desirable cameras that I've seen. I was hoping for more from Pentax/Ricoh, as I generally think they make good products.
And I was hoping for more from Pentax because I have six Limited lenses.
Personally the absolute size of an APS-C (or FF) "compact" camera doesn't matter all that much to me, as long as it is a significant size savings as compared to comparable DSLRs.
I find the NEX-5N a little cramped; even the GXR which has better control layouts could use some ergo improvements / tweaks. The size feels about right though - having experienced it I wouldn't want something too much bigger without receiving some benefit in return.
This Pentax doesn't intrigue me much; I can't use my M mount lenses on it; buying it would force me to pick up Pentax K mount or some of these new lenses and somehow I doubt I'll like the IQ of an ultra-thin f/2.8 40mm lens anyway.
To me this camera seems aimed at the Pentax faithful to keep them from straying. "They want mirrorless, we'll give them mirrorless" was no doubt spoken in some sales or design meeting.
If we agree on the forgoing we can also then agree that this camera does not look like a camera system designed to draw new camera users or users of other systems, quite the opposite proposition offered by cameras like the NEX or even m4/3s compacts or Ricoh GXR (in particular the M mount module). In the APS-C space Sony certainly hits the mark here - their camera is attracting users of many different DSLR / SLR systems since most of their existing lenses can be re-purposed on the Sony. Once in the family... they become potential buyers of new Sony products. Pretty smart for a company losing billions.
On the bright side this camera quells any fear I had that it may usurp the GXR, so I'm hoping they've decided to aim the K-01 at existing Pentax fans and the Ricoh GXR can continue to be the jack-of-all-trades camera aimed at other user communities... hopefully continuing along their path of support for rangefinder and rangefinder glass users.
PS: Yellow? Interesting. I don't mind it really but would want to stick with the black blob... lots less inconspicuous, which I prefer.
Looks more absurd the larger the lens attached and also certainly couldn't handle very well. Good luck trying to hold 200+mm focal lengths with both arms outstretched
michaelwatkins wrote:
To me this camera seems aimed at the Pentax faithful to keep them from straying. "They want mirrorless, we'll give them mirrorless" was no doubt spoken in some sales or design meeting.
Yeah, it's sort of like Toyota responding to people wanting an all-electric car by ripping the gasoline engine out of a Prius.
michaelwatkins wrote:
....I find the NEX-5N a little cramped; even the GXR which has better control layouts could use some ergo improvements / tweaks. The size feels about right though - having experienced it I wouldn't want something too much bigger without receiving some benefit in return.
This Pentax doesn't intrigue me much; I can't use my M mount lenses on it; buying it would force me to pick up Pentax K mount or some of these new lenses and somehow I doubt I'll like the IQ of an ultra-thin f/2.8 40mm lens anyway.
To me this camera seems aimed at the Pentax faithful to keep them from straying. "They want mirrorless, we'll give them mirrorless" was no doubt spoken in some sales or design meeting.
.... ...Show more →
Agreed.
Now, what if they had released a FF universal mount mirrorless camera with in-body IS? Now that would have shaken things up.
But this? And I don't care who Marc Newson is either. Its a silly looking camera with some designer's signature on it. Is it a new pair of heels? And, once again, peaking but no EVF?
They would have been better forgetting Marc Newson, hiring some real photographers and created the first FF mirrorless universal mount digital camera. But no, they hired a "contemporary designer" instead. Really?
this has been about all that the last three generations of Pentax DSLRs have been about, churning the base, especially with the lousy sensors in the K20D and K-7 and the flawed image processor in the K10D turning random luminance noise into lots of faint vertical lines. which is a shame since they have some really good lenses.
Herb....
michaelwatkins wrote:
To me this camera seems aimed at the Pentax faithful to keep them from straying. "They want mirrorless, we'll give them mirrorless" was no doubt spoken in some sales or design meeting.
i actually find the look of this camera much less ugly than most modern cameras (excluding some silly colors). the designer signature is super tacky though.
as for how it looks as a photographic tool – what a disappointment. i generally really like pentax, but this is useless. it's just a dslr without a viewfinder. the lcd doesn't even articulate, wtf?
Personally I think all you size & weight freaks are nuts. OMG, it's 100g heavier that camera X - it's the end of life as we know it. May the mountains fall on me and my being be extinguished for all time - it's 8mm fatter than a Nex. Heh... I hope all youz types realize that youz all combined are such a tiny minority youz is barely a spec on a flea's nose.
I guess 70% of the buying public will go to the store and ask the guy what they got in a compact with interchangeable lenses and this will be one of the one's shown. And when the guy explains about the Pentax line of lenses available for it that will make a VERY STRONG and compelling reason for getting it. No other mirrorless can even come close to touching that! And even after all this time I guess adapter users still represent less than 25% of the mirrorless market. I get so many people still asking me how the hell I can possibly say an OM (or whatever) lens can be used on µ4/3 it's not funny. And when I mention adapters or MF they're immediately turned off. If this K-01camera also delivers nice videos and HQ stills I'd say it'll sell well enough. It won't matter if the potential customer is a previous Pentax owner or not when they learn they can buy 3 KAF lenses with awesome IQ for the same money as only one lens for any of the others - and in Nex's case especially these are lenses that don't suck! Pretty much all the salesman has to do to sell one of these is break out the pentax lens catalog - done. It's probably not the case but I would also hope that people would be interested in a camera made by Pentax over one made by evil Sony.
The other 30% will likely combo on what they can afford and/or what looks good in web photographs.
On Nex which everyone seems to want to compare, I think it may just be a freakish fad. I bet the majority of Nex users are hating life. The Nex w/lens as carried to the car and onto the soccer field or into the friend's birthday party is not really smaller than something like a K-x, Kiss X5, Nikkon 3100, or GH2 etc.. But it sure is harder to handle and the GUI sure is a lot more goofy with it's play-school like theme. OK, this K-01's styling is kinda lame but not much more-so than the GF3 or some others I can think of. And this is their first camera too. So the next version(s) will no doubt only improve. At least I would hope so; no EVF and no articulated LCD? Still I think it's not as bad as all youz miniature camera junkies are making out.
Pentax lenses have always been small, and the camera isn't all THAT big, though it is quite heavy. The question we detractors keep asking is "why?" Why would you buy this over a Pentax DSLR? There is ZERO size and weight savings over DSLR lenses, there is minimal size and weight savings over the SLR body, which leaves you with the merits as a camera alone. I'm sure image quality will be great, but so will a K-5. You basically give up a viewfinder and speedy PDAF and gain NOTHING in return.
I am good with micro 4/3 because the image quality is easily good enough for my purposes, I have access to good EVFs and the body and lenses are much smaller than what I can have with an SLR kit of similar capability. I'm giving up a little in image quality and giving up an OVF for an EVF (though frankly I view that as an upgrade), and I'm giving up better focus tracking capability. However, I'm gaining portability, gaining faster and more accurate single shot autofocus, and gaining the use of much more adapted glass. To me, those tradeoffs are well worth it.
Bif, as someone who spends a lot of time in camera shops, and who worked for many years in one I can offer one point of contention to your argument.
When considering an expensive camera a newbie often asks the sales assistant which they think is better or which they would buy. Unless there is a special sales incentive on a particular brand, or the salesperson is totally disinterested they will recommend the one THEY prefer. Often the camera salesperson is an enthusiast and a bit of a gear nut, it goes with the territory.
JMan13,
Yeah, but my point is that only a few freaks would think so. I guess myself at least partially included.
Non-DSLR cameras are like cloths. They're a fashion. This is a compact which can also has interchangeable lenses. And the one which has the most lenses! And the one which has the best lenses - I guess no one can argue.
So they can have levies now instead of slacks and also use some of the best lenses ever. Makes good marketing sense to me! I just wish it had an EVF.
thrice,
Tru dat. Oh well. Maybe Pentax should give a K-01 to all camera shop employees all around the world. Anyway you're right... that is usually the first round of questions. But then the plot thickens.
Bifurcator wrote:
Personally I think all you size & weight freaks are nuts. OMG, it's 100g heavier that camera X - it's the end of life as we know it. May the mountains fall on me and my being be extinguished for all time - it's 8mm fatter than a Nex. Heh... I hope all youz types realize that youz all combined are such a tiny minority youz is barely a spec on a flea's nose.
I guess 70% of the buying public will go to the store and ask the guy what they got in a compact with interchangeable lenses and this will be one of the one's shown. And when the guy explains about the Pentax line of lenses available for it that will make a VERY STRONG and compelling reason for getting it. No other mirrorless can even come close to touching that! And even after all this time I guess adapter users still represent less than 25% of the mirrorless market. I get so many people still asking me how the hell I can possibly say an OM (or whatever) lens can be used on µ4/3 it's not funny. And when I mention adapters or MF they're immediately turned off. If this K-01camera also delivers nice videos and HQ stills I'd say it'll sell well enough. It won't matter if the potential customer is a previous Pentax owner or not when they learn they can buy 3 KAF lenses with awesome IQ for the same money as only one lens for any of the others - and in Nex's case especially these are lenses that don't suck! Pretty much all the salesman has to do to sell one of these is break out the pentax lens catalog - done. It's probably not the case but I would also hope that people would be interested in a camera made by Pentax over one made by evil Sony.
The other 30% will likely combo on what they can afford and/or what looks good in web photographs. ...Show more →
as usual bif, the degree to which you are out of touch with the masses amazes me (i thought i was bad). 95% of the buying public (for interchangeable lens cameras) will never look at the lens catalog because they don't want to change lenses. this isn't actually because these people are idiots so much as it is that there aren't really consumer oriented fixed lens large sensor cameras (though now there is the canon g1x). the problem with this offering is that size is the only reason to buy a milc versus a dslr, and this doesn't have a size advantage.
Bifurcator wrote:
On Nex which everyone seems to want to compare, I think it may just be a freakish fad. I bet the majority of Nex users are hating life. The Nex w/lens as carried to the car and onto the soccer field or into the friend's birthday party is not really smaller than something like a K-x, Kiss X5, Nikkon 3100, or GH2 etc.. But it sure is harder to handle and the GUI sure is a lot more goofy with it's play-school like theme. OK, this K-01's styling is kinda lame but not much more-so than the GF3 or some others I can think of. And this is their first camera too. So the next version(s) will no doubt only improve. At least I would hope so; no EVF and no articulated LCD? Still I think it's not as bad as all youz miniature camera junkies are making out. ...Show more →
to each there own, for my use the NEX handles better than most dslrs i've used, but this probably is because i only use manual focus lenses on adapters. it is definitely a lot easier to carry to.
sebboh,
I think you're still talking about us here. Us freaks. Lately moms, pops, and HS kids (cheerleaders or whatever) have noticed that compacts are now showing up with interchangeable lenses. So that's a pre-known advantage and a new type. That this pentax is the strongest in that advantage category for that type I guessing will mean something. And size in this regard is only a mental concept to most people. It most likely does not carry across to individual models but the type concept is there: DSLR, Compact MILC, Old style Compact. There are only 3 sizes to most buyers.
It's what I see most in Japan anyway. We're rare you have to remember. That you might surround yourself with our types here or in your personal life doesn't really change that. Of course without extensive research neither of us know for sure the average mind of the public for any country but...
For me personally you already know I don't think there's any actual size or weight different between GH1, Nex, and something like the K-5 . Only that the Nex is harder to hold with a long lens on.
Bifurcator wrote:
sebboh,
I think you're still talking about us here. Us freaks. Lately moms, pops, and HS kids (cheerleaders or whatever) have noticed that compacts are now showing up with interchangeable lenses.
no, i'm talking about the actual percentage of dslr and milc buyers that never buy any lens other than the kit lens as quoted by canon and nikon. i certainly use more than the kit lens and i know you do.
Pretty much all the salesman has to do to sell one of these is break out the pentax lens catalog - done. It's probably not the case but I would also hope that people would be interested in a camera made by Pentax over one made by evil Sony.
Still I think it's not as bad as all youz miniature camera junkies are making out.
!!!!