p.10 #1 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
SKumar25 wrote:
Would you mind sharing such an example. Also please mention the weight of the lens and body. How does it compare in size too? Really curious.
It's not really a surprise that the "uber expensive" Leica lenses can be good
But I would like to learn something here.
1 What's the point of using those lenses on a Nex c3 instead of a better body?
2 And why not use a Leica body for those lenses ? Wouldn't the image quality be even better then?
p.10 #2 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
photoomaha wrote:
Dan,
Thank you for your very insightful post, and I believe you and I are on the same page with this. I do primarily shoot weddings and portraits. I would love to have a smaller, incredible image quality, camera to work with. Having to carry a 5DII, with a 24-70 and 70-200 all day to cover a wedding or get thru a Sunday afternoon of family portraits can be a bit of a drain. Also, for just random family images of my kids, it would be great to have a single camera that would work for all these situations! It used to work with film, why can't we have that with digital? I have been looking a lot harder at the X-pro 1, I really just wish canon would come out with something like this. They, or Nikon, with their research and development, could knock this out of the park. ...Show more →
What film camera could do all those things with very good IQ and had pocket size
p.10 #3 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
gdanmitchell wrote:
That final statement is always true when it comes to photographic equipment. We pick the gear that gets us closest to our ideal for the type of photography for which we'll use it.
Many of the arguments that Camera Type A is better than Camera Type B come down to arguing about the photographer's personal choices about these compromises. Bridging from that to some sort of objective truth about which camera is generically better is pretty darned silly.
Depending upon what and how you are shooting, I can understand how any of the following could be the best option:
1. Big ol' DSLR with honkin' big lenses.
2. DSLR with smaller lenses.
3. "Rebel" style small form DSLR with smaller lenses or even a single prime.
4. Fuji's "classic" rangefinder-style fixed lens camera
5. Various and sundry four-thirds cameras in mirror less and non-mirrorless versions.
6. Canon's G1X.
7. Others I could add to the list if I wanted to keep going.
Whether a camera is or is not "pocketable" (and/or how large your pockets are) doesn't define the camera's value in a general way - this discussion makes that completely clear. Whether the camera has interchangeable lenses or not does not define its value in a general way, either - some prefer (at least for certain types a shooting) using a single prime, while others don't.
My feeling is that all of these new "takes" on quality camera design are very interesting and they provide lots of powerful and useful options - with options being the key word here.
p.10 #4 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Lasse Eriksson wrote:
It's not really a surprise that the "uber expensive" Leica lenses can be good
But I would like to learn something here.
1 What's the point of using those lenses on a Nex c3 instead of a better body?
2 And why not use a Leica body for those lenses ? Wouldn't the image quality be even better then?
If you owned those lenses then yes it would make sense to have a better body, maybe even a Leica one. But even people with those bodies look at smaller form cameras for a backup or travel option.
The point I made is budget aside, you can achieve amazing IQ with those cameras, at a fraction of the weight and size of SLR, and that is what interests me about them.
p.10 #5 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Lasse Eriksson wrote:
How can it be a lot better than DSLRs flashes when you loose EVF
The quality of flash is better than dslr built in..and given I shoot the nex from waist level most of the time evf is unnecessary. As a tall guy I actually find shooting with a tilting evf is saving my knees quite a bit, which is good as one is torn.
Again an argument is made outside of the original question, which is..what the flash quality like... You've made it about evf. To some the evf is unimportant..the question was about flash.
I'd rather have a small flash that can bounce and has good output at a party, than an evf. But to the original point evf has nothing to do with flash quality..I mentioned it for those who must use evf... But the output of tilt screen and good flash is better than optical or evf and shitty flash.
p.10 #6 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
curious80 wrote:
You are not just saying that YOU dont need it. You are saying that NO ONE needs these systems and these are just marketing gimmicks. If you say "I dont need it because the size difference is not significant for me" then I would say that sure thats a valid perspective. But you are trying to argue that the size difference will not matter for anyone. That my friend is the presumptuous part.
Please stop trying to put words into my mouth that aren't written by me. I never said that NO ONE needs these systems. Or that the size difference will not matter for anyone. All I am saying is that in pratical terms there isn't much difference between carrying a DLSR system and EVIL system (beyond pancakes / alt glass) because both don't fit a pocket. This is MY OPINION. Others agreed with this. You don't... which is silly. But maybe you have really big pockets
p.10 #7 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
h00ligan wrote:
The quality of flash is better than dslr built in..and given I shoot the nex from waist level most of the time evf is unnecessary. As a tall guy I actually find shooting with a tilting evf is saving my knees quite a bit, which is good as one is torn.
Again an argument is made outside of the original question, which is..what the flash quality like... You've made it about evf. To some the evf is unimportant..the question was about flash.
I'd rather have a small flash that can bounce and has good output at a party, than an evf. But to the original point evf has nothing to do with flash quality..I mentioned it for those who must use evf... But the output of tilt screen and good flash is better than optical or evf and shitty flash. ...Show more →
But if being fair and comparing against a DSLR. Then you should compare an external flash for DSLRs also. And nearly all are a lot better than the Nex.
p.10 #8 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
photoomaha wrote:
Lasse,
You made do some digging! But I did manage to find a couple of cameras that I believe were the first to touch my hands! I would love to have something like this with a solid sensor, from Canon....
There already exist about one hundred of those P&S in digital
p.10 #9 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
The flashes for a dslr weigh abou 25x more... I'll weight my 430 ex ii and the nex..
Look man, if size and weight aren't important to you at all, then get medium format or greater and call it a day.
For people who want a relatively versatile kit...the new mirror less offerings are great.. The iq is not far off from ff and the weight and size are much much less.
p.10 #10 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
I do not own or tested a NEX. I am also aware that the new C3 and 5N are a step ahead the Olympus MFT offerings.
BUT...my E-P2 with Leica glass is MILES away from my 5D+35L.
If using the E-P2 at ISO 1600 (usually needed in party's when i tend to get lazy and not take the 5D) the results are just lame. Too much noise on that tiny sensor. So my P2 is not a substitute. Its better than a P&S, but really far away from FF.
Wake me up when a mirrorless camera equals FF at High ISO.
p.10 #12 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
safcraft wrote:
I do not own or tested a NEX. I am also aware that the new C3 and 5N are a step ahead the Olympus MFT offerings.
BUT...my E-P2 with Leica glass is MILES away from my 5D+35L.
If using the E-P2 at ISO 1600 (usually needed in party's when i tend to get lazy and not take the 5D) the results are just lame. Too much noise on that tiny sensor. So my P2 is not a substitute. Its better than a P&S, but really far away from FF.
Wake me up when a mirrorless camera equals FF at High ISO.
5n is half a stop worse than my 5d2. I just shot a side by side test, and the 5d2 has slightly more detail, as expected..and it would be irrelevant until printing at 20x30 or larger. IMO.
Also IMO, the nex 5n is miles ahead of the old mft sensors..and when paired with good glass the results are fantastic.
There's no point in posting images..go look at the nex images thread.
p.10 #13 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
h00ligan wrote:
The flashes for a dslr weigh abou 25x more... I'll weight my 430 ex ii and the nex..
Look man, if size and weight aren't important to you at all, then get medium format or greater and call it a day.
For people who want a relatively versatile kit...the new mirror less offerings are great.. The iq is not far off from ff and the weight and size are much much less.
The smallest nikon external flash for DSLR weight 70 grams. So your flash must be less than 3 grams then
p.10 #14 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
We are in the canon forum right? We want to bounce right?
I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or argumentative, or if you are just so single minded you won't even try it.. But I give up, you aren't looking for a real answer to the questions posted, you are looking to argue.
5d2 +35L + 430 ex ii 4.336 lbs. no accessories, no bag, one lens.
Add a bag and memory card, a couple more lenses.. 1/3 the weight maybe 1/4 or less!
95 % of the quality in the right circumstances (not sports or tele)
Nex flash (the big one) .146 lbs
430 ex ii .930 lbs
The upside is the 430 ex ii swivels, unfortunately not 360 which I usually ned when swiveling. So we could go up another 30 %
I don't have a 270 to test, I don't know if it bounces.
Out of interest I'll shoot a comparison with a 24-105 and 5d2 vs a couple of nex lenses... On light tele could offset the weight a bit...so there may be an argument for a single light lens on ff instead of a kit for mirror less...though you'd be losing volume, and some other advantages, like discreetness.
p.10 #16 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
So it's ok with Sony here, but not Nikon
And the Nex is not even close to the 5D2. Compare it against a Rebel instead. And why should I have f/1,4 lenses on the Canon. But slower lenses on the Nex. Just so you can get a higher weight on the Canon. A voigtlander 40/2 for Canon is about 200 grams instead of the 35L that is 3x that. a 50/1,8 is 130 grams and still faster than any lens on your kit. And you need a couple of adapters for your kit also
p.10 #17 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
safcraft wrote:
I do not own or tested a NEX. I am also aware that the new C3 and 5N are a step ahead the Olympus MFT offerings.
BUT...my E-P2 with Leica glass is MILES away from my 5D+35L.
If using the E-P2 at ISO 1600 (usually needed in party's when i tend to get lazy and not take the 5D) the results are just lame. Too much noise on that tiny sensor. So my P2 is not a substitute. Its better than a P&S, but really far away from FF.
Wake me up when a mirrorless camera equals FF at High ISO.
p.10 #18 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Daan B wrote:
Please stop trying to put words into my mouth that aren't written by me. I never said that NO ONE needs these systems. Or that the size difference will not matter for anyone. All I am saying is that in pratical terms there isn't much difference between carrying a DLSR system and EVIL system (beyond pancakes / alt glass) because both don't fit a pocket. This is MY OPINION. Others agreed with this. You don't... which is silly. But maybe you have really big pockets
I do not want to debate your opinion. Your needs and/or tastes do not dictate that you carry a mirrorless system and that's fine.
But, when you state that an EVIL system beyond pancakes or alt glass will not fit in a pocket, you are not making a statement of opinion. So, once more:
#1 A NEX with a kit lens does indeed fit in the jacket or coat pocket of essentially every jacket or coat I own (even the small ones). A DSLR with kit lens does not fit in any of them. This is indeed a huge practical difference for me.
#2 Why do you keep wanting to exclude pancakes and alt glass from the discussion? These are excellent real world, practical options to both reduce the size of the camera and improve the image quality.
p.10 #19 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
artd wrote:
I do not want to debate your opinion. Your needs and/or tastes do not dictate that you carry a mirrorless system and that's fine.
But, when you state that an EVIL system beyond pancakes or alt glass will not fit in a pocket, you are not making a statement of opinion. So, once more:
#1 A NEX with a kit lens does indeed fit in the jacket or coat pocket of essentially every jacket or coat I own (even the small ones). A DSLR with kit lens does not fit in any of them. This is indeed a huge practical difference for me.
#2 Why do you keep wanting to exclude pancakes and alt glass from the discussion? These are excellent real world, practical options to both reduce the size of the camera and improve the image quality....Show more →
Well... I guess it boils down to how big your pockets are
p.10 #20 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
The coat pocket excuse is not really an option unless you live in colder climates. Half of the world's population lives in the tropics and don't wear coats, so you really need to use a messenger or camera bag (or geek out with a neck strap all day) to tote mirrorless. Summers in moderate climates are the same.
For walks and outings, I carry my E-P3, EVF clip-on & pancake in a Billingham Stowaway, sorta a camera purse with plenty of room for a spare lens or two, iPhone, flask and assorted knickknacks. When going to work, it resides in a small Crumper insert (Haven) in my Fossil messenger bag. Since we suffer from a lack of pockets in Hawaii, almost everyone carries a messenger bag or daypack, so toting a small camera all the time is no biggie.
