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Archive 2012 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
  
 
Sven Jeppesen
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p.9 #1 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


chez wrote:
The difference might be small, but significant. My x100 fits into my jacket pocket. There is no DSLR with a pancake lens that will fit into my pocket. Thus I either have to lug around a case for the camera or hang it like a noose around my neck. For me, that is a big difference.

And of course you never like or need to change lenses What's the point of have a camera that is made for changing lenses if only using one lens? And you always use a jacket with big pockets. Even in the summer or in tropical countries?
Mirrorless camera owners are obsessed with this "pocket thing" even if most of them didn't even talk about it the first 20 years they where shooting with other bodies


Jan 22, 2012 at 10:05 AM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.9 #2 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


chez wrote:
Does it fit into your pocket or briefcase. No. That is the excitement.

A Rebel fits without any problem in my briefcase. But is that the most important thing about Photography......
Jan 22, 2012 at 10:09 AM
chez
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p.9 #3 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


Sven Jeppesen wrote:
And of course you never like or need to change lenses What's the point of have a camera that is made for changing lenses if only using one lens? And you always use a jacket with big pockets. Even in the summer or in tropical countries?
Mirrorless camera owners are obsessed with this "pocket thing" even if most of them didn't even talk about it the first 20 years they where shooting with other bodies

If I feel I need to change lenses and have that option...that is when I take my DSLR with me. When I am going out either on a business trip or just out for a walk, I will not carry around my DSLR with me. Too much of a burden. I used to take a p&s, but was never happy with the image results. Now the x100 has changed that, it is both compact and the quality of images is very impressive. I will be taking the x100 everywhere I used to take my p&s...which is everywhere I don't take a DSLR outfit.

And yeh, I wear a jacket basically 9 months out of the year and always on business.
Jan 22, 2012 at 10:11 AM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.9 #4 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


chez wrote:
If I feel I need to change lenses and have that option...that is when I take my DSLR with me. When I am going out either on a business trip or just out for a walk, I will not carry around my DSLR with me. Too much of a burden. I used to take a p&s, but was never happy with the image results. Now the x100 has changed that, it is both compact and the quality of images is very impressive. I will be taking the x100 everywhere I used to take my p&s...which is everywhere I don't take...Show more →

So the other 3 months it's not important that the camera doesn't fit in any pocket


Jan 22, 2012 at 10:14 AM
chez
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p.9 #5 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


Sven Jeppesen wrote:
A Rebel fits without any problem in my briefcase. But is that the most important thing about Photography......


I shoot landscapes and always take my DSLR outfit for that purpose. I deliberately get up at 4:00am, hike out to my destination, setup my gear and wait for the right light. The entire purpose is to get that shot.

Now when I go on a business trip, my entire focus is my business. If I have an hour or two before my flight, I can pull out my x100 and have some fun shooting city life. Nothing planned...many times I don't have time to pull out the camera. I don't want to carry the bulk or weight around with me just in case I might have an hour to shoot. It is in these conditions I want a small pocketable camera that can still capture great quality images. The mirror less cameras, in particular the x100, makes this possible...at least for me.

If you are happy lugging around a small DSLR with you, that is great...for others it is just too much weight and bulk.
Jan 22, 2012 at 10:18 AM
chez
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p.9 #6 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


Sven Jeppesen wrote:
So the other 3 months it's not important that the camera doesn't fit in any pocket

Sven, I don't understand you. Yes, it is still important to me to have a small light camera even though i don't have a jacket with me. I still do business trips and put the small camera into my briefcase. I still take walks were I would much rather carry a light compact camera rather than a bulky heavy camera. Nothing changes.

Why does all this surprise you?
Jan 22, 2012 at 10:22 AM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.9 #7 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


Because suddenly this "pocket thing" is the most important aspects of photography for some people here at FM. The same people never talked about it a couple of years ago............
Jan 22, 2012 at 10:28 AM
chez
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p.9 #8 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


Sven Jeppesen wrote:
Because suddenly this "pocket thing" is the most important aspects of photography for some people here at FM. The same people never talked about it a couple of years ago............

A couple years ago the pocketable camera, p&s, did not produce the image quality these new mirror less cameras do. Now many people are excited to not only be able to take a camera with them everywhere, they also do not have to give up image quality when doing so. Is that hard to understand?
Jan 22, 2012 at 10:32 AM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.9 #9 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


chez wrote:
A couple years ago the pocketable camera, p&s, did not produce the image quality these new mirror less cameras do. Now many people are excited to not only be able to take a camera with them everywhere, they also do not have to give up image quality when doing so. Is that hard to understand?


The P&S, DSLRs and all other cameras have of course also improved. And the DSLRs have gone smaller also.

But what's the point of trying to convince everyone in the Canon mount forum how good and really small your pocket sized Fuji is What do you think will happen if I do the same in the Alt forum and tell them to use a Canon DSLR instead


Jan 22, 2012 at 10:40 AM
nads
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p.9 #10 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


Sven Jeppesen wrote:
Because suddenly this "pocket thing" is the most important aspects of photography for some people here at FM. The same people never talked about it a couple of years ago............

I didn't talk about it a few years ago, but life changes. It turns out that when hauling around diapers, strollers, and other child related ancillaries, I not only want a smaller camera that performs like a DSLR, but I am more disappointed to be without than ever before.
Jan 22, 2012 at 10:44 AM
garydavidjones
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p.9 #11 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


The EVIL pocket-size craze is counter-productive for much of photography.

Photography is still dependent upon the optics of big glass for optimal results.

For macro and other types of photos, you get better results with, for example,

a Canon 180 mm macro lens than some pancake lens. I have been seen

superior results with my Canon 70-200 mm IS II lens compared to what I got

with the Canon 24-105 mm. Quality is still dependent on optics and big glass.
Jan 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM
artd
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p.9 #12 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


garydavidjones wrote:
The EVIL pocket-size craze is counter-productive for much of photography.

Photography is still dependent upon the optics of big glass for optimal results.

For macro and other types of photos, you get better results with, for example,

a Canon 180 mm macro lens than some pancake lens. I have been seen

superior results with my Canon 70-200 mm IS II lens compared to what I got

with the Canon 24-105 mm. Quality is still dependent on optics and big glass.
A mirrorless camera is not always appropriate for all types of photography. No one is disputing that.

But, there are plenty of rangefinder lenses out there that prove you don't need big glass to have great optics.
Jan 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.9 #13 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


thw2 wrote:
True but the X100 comes with a FIXED PRIME lens. The Canon G1X with its FIXED ZOOM lens is also extremely compact. DPReview says this about the G1X: "no other kit zoom for mirrorless systems comes close to this degree of compactness".

It's all about compromises.

That final statement is always true when it comes to photographic equipment. We pick the gear that gets us closest to our ideal for the type of photography for which we'll use it.

Many of the arguments that Camera Type A is better than Camera Type B come down to arguing about the photographer's personal choices about these compromises. Bridging from that to some sort of objective truth about which camera is generically better is pretty darned silly.

Depending upon what and how you are shooting, I can understand how any of the following could be the best option:

1. Big ol' DSLR with honkin' big lenses.
2. DSLR with smaller lenses.
3. "Rebel" style small form DSLR with smaller lenses or even a single prime.
4. Fuji's "classic" rangefinder-style fixed lens camera
5. Various and sundry four-thirds cameras in mirror less and non-mirrorless versions.
6. Canon's G1X.
7. Others I could add to the list if I wanted to keep going.

Whether a camera is or is not "pocketable" (and/or how large your pockets are) doesn't define the camera's value in a general way - this discussion makes that completely clear. Whether the camera has interchangeable lenses or not does not define its value in a general way, either - some prefer (at least for certain types a shooting) using a single prime, while others don't.

My feeling is that all of these new "takes" on quality camera design are very interesting and they provide lots of powerful and useful options - with options being the key word here.

Dan
Jan 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM
artd
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p.9 #14 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


Daan B wrote:
Nope, I am just saying that the differences between a small DSLR and EVIL camera with lenses other than pancakes and alt glass is pretty small in practical terms. Both won't fit into a pocket.

First of all, what is wrong with alt glass?

Secondly, a NEX with the kit zoom will still fit in my jacket pocket. Call me a liar if you want but I've done it and walked around with it and used it that way.


Jan 22, 2012 at 11:31 AM
h00ligan
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p.9 #15 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


garydavidjones wrote:
The EVIL pocket-size craze is counter-productive for much of photography.

Photography is still dependent upon the optics of big glass for optimal results.

For macro and other types of photos, you get better results with, for example,

a Canon 180 mm macro lens than some pancake lens. I have been seen

superior results with my Canon 70-200 mm IS II lens compared to what I got

with the Canon 24-105 mm. Quality is still dependent on optics and big glass.

So Leica lenses aren't the best in the world because they are small?

IMO a high quality zeiss prime will give better result than almost every zoom..but again, depends on if one needs flexibility.

Edited on Jan 22, 2012 at 11:55 AM · View previous versions
Jan 22, 2012 at 11:52 AM
h00ligan
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p.9 #16 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


melcat wrote:
I'm curious what the mirrorless users here think of the built-in flashes. It seems to me the situations where you don't want to carry a DSLR tend to be the ones where you'd want a flash, at least for fill. And I'd have thought that means something with at least 2 AA batteries and capable of bounce. Adding that to the mirrorless kit tends to reduce its size advantage compared to something like a 5D. Or are you all "available light" hardliners?

It's true that the lack of a focal plane shutter reduces the battery power requirements somewhat for HSS.


I pleasantly surprised by the larger nex flash for the 5n, it works well indoors at parties and such..and weighs next to nothing, although it does add some dimension. I don't leave it mounted all the time, but I'll put it on at the beginning of a party. Or for other specific purpose.

The one downside is no evf at the same time..but it bounces pretty well..and it's a lot better than most built in flashes, including dslr.


Jan 22, 2012 at 11:54 AM
SKumar25
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p.9 #17 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


thw2 wrote:
Funny... you can achieve similar image quality with a D Rebel camera. Much lighter weight and smaller than the 5D2 body too.

Would you mind sharing such an example. Also please mention the weight of the lens and body. How does it compare in size too? Really curious.

Edited on Jan 22, 2012 at 12:04 PM · View previous versions
Jan 22, 2012 at 11:58 AM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.9 #18 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


h00ligan wrote:
I pleasantly surprised by the larger nex flash for the 5n, it works well indoors at parties and such..and weighs next to nothing, although it does add some dimension. I don't leave it mounted all the time, but I'll put it on at the beginning of a party. Or for other specific purpose.

The one downside is no evf at the same time..but it bounces pretty well..and it's a lot better than most built in flashes, including dslr.

How can it be a lot better than DSLRs flashes when you loose EVF


Jan 22, 2012 at 12:03 PM
photoomaha
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p.9 #19 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?


Dan,

Thank you for your very insightful post, and I believe you and I are on the same page with this. I do primarily shoot weddings and portraits. I would love to have a smaller, incredible image quality, camera to work with. Having to carry a 5DII, with a 24-70 and 70-200 all day to cover a wedding or get thru a Sunday afternoon of family portraits can be a bit of a drain. Also, for just random family images of my kids, it would be great to have a single camera that would work for all these situations! It used to work with film, why can't we have that with digital? I have been looking a lot harder at the X-pro 1, I really just wish canon would come out with something like this. They, or Nikon, with their research and development, could knock this out of the park.


Jan 22, 2012 at 12:09 PM