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Archive 2011 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!

  
 
tonywong88
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p.31 #1 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


n0b0 wrote:
When I saw this thread I was wondering what people will whinge about... I guess it's the f8 lack of AF. If you can afford this camera, surely you can buy the 200-400L.


Totally works if your idea of birding is shooting ostrich.



Oct 19, 2011 at 12:49 AM
Schlotkins
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p.31 #2 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


Pixel Perfect wrote:
How many birders using them?


Probably zero.

Maybe with the drop of the 1.3 crop Canon can put out a killer 1.6 crop cam. Same AF, better IQ, etc for the 7D MKII. Raise the price to $2500. No one that is really planning on buying the X would consider a 1.6 crop instead. That's what I am hoping for. Actually, this would work for me. I'd have an X and then the best cropper.

EDIT: How awesome would it be to put the 45 point in the 7D and get f8 AF on top of the crop?



Oct 19, 2011 at 12:49 AM
Tony Ross
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p.31 #3 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


EB-1 wrote:
The ISOs seriously need to be reset to the original progression, i.e., multiples of 16, 25, 32, 40, 50, 64, 80, and 125. There should be 1600, 2000, 2500, 3200, 6400, 125,000, 160,000, 200,000, 250,000, and so on. The crazy fractionalization is meaningless compared to the accuracy of the photo sensitivy. After all, the exact mathematically progressive increments (cube root of 2) are not used for the lower speeds.

EBH


You are wrong. Every full stop of ISO is a power of 2 multiplied by 100 - there is no inconsistency in the steps.

The full stops are: 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, 12800, 25600, 51200, 102400, 204800. All the other ISO settings are fractional stops in between.



Oct 19, 2011 at 01:11 AM
kewlcanon
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p.31 #4 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


It will sell like hotcakes.

gpgt1998 wrote:
Totally agree and think this will be a flop.




Oct 19, 2011 at 01:14 AM
melcat
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p.31 #5 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


1. The new LP-E4N battery should not be charged in the old charger. How long before the LP-E4 is discontinued, meaning owners of 1D Mk III and IV and 1DS Mk III cameras have to buy a new charger? Batteries don't keep, so you can't even stockpile them.

2. What do people think about the new depth of field preview buttons? The old one could be operated with the 4th finger of the left hand curled around the the lens, although not when held vertically or with long lenses. The new ones can only be used with fingers of the right hand, and it looks a stretch if you use back-button AF.

3. Cropping from full frame isn't the same as composing in the finder on a 1.3 crop camera.

4. The 1DS Mk III is actually noticeably heavier than the 1D Mk III - for me, it crosses the line of comfort (I use both). It seems the 1D X is heavier than either.

5. Some people aren't going to like having to power on the camera to look through the finder. And I don't like the sound of "will function substantially better [than the 7d] in temperatures below 0 C". How about functioning perfectly, like the current 1 series finders?

6. The new Quick Control button is one more thing that could be bumped - and enter a different mode. This isn't a camera for novices, so it's a basic interface design mistake. The existing 1 series are textbook-correct - it's hard to believe this comes from the same designers.

Maybe the "X" stands for "marked wrong".

Edited on Oct 19, 2011 at 01:55 AM · View previous versions



Oct 19, 2011 at 01:48 AM
Xavier Rival
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p.31 #6 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


uz2work wrote:
According to Chuck Westfall, who should know more about Canon products than any Canon employee in the US, the AF cut off for the 1D X is, in fact, f5.6.

Below, I've pasted Westfall's reply to Arthur Morris, who was asking about the AF cut off.

"AF is unavailable on the EOS-1D X if the maximum aperture reported to the camera through the electronic lens mount is smaller than f/5.6. This is a lower specification than previous EOS-1 series DSLRs. On the plus side, consider the fact that with most f/4 lenses including the 400 DO, 500/4L IS and IS
...Show more

This is exactly what I feared, as I did see this description of what AF points can do with f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6 lenses but no mention of f/8. I hope we eventually learn that this is not the case, as quite a few people rely on this feature (I cannot afford a 1D series body myself, but tried one with a 1.4x and my 100-400, and was extremely impressed with its ability to AF with an f/8 set up).



Oct 19, 2011 at 01:52 AM
wickerprints
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p.31 #7 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


Are any Nikon bodies capable of AF @ f/8?


Oct 19, 2011 at 01:56 AM
ausemmao
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p.31 #8 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


wickerprints wrote:
Are any Nikon bodies capable of AF @ f/8?


Nope.

Well, not supported officially. They will still attempt to focus though the reliability of it is questionable at best.

You guys have the best D4 yet announced. Seriously.



Oct 19, 2011 at 01:59 AM
alundeb
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p.31 #9 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


ausemmao wrote:
Nope.

Well, not supported officially. They will still attempt to focus though the reliability of it is questionable at best.


The choice of attempting to focus or not with f/8 aperture is a decision implemented in firmware. Canon have the possibility to change this before the 1D X hits the shelves. They have probably tested focus with f/8 and found it problematic. Instead of receiving critical tests and bad reputation when the camera comes out, they have gone the safe route.

Maybe Canon could distribute an unlock patch if you sign a written agreement that you will use it at your own risk and never complain about the performance of it, publicly or directly....



Oct 19, 2011 at 02:13 AM
ausemmao
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p.31 #10 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


alundeb wrote:
The choice of attempting to focus or not with f/8 aperture is a decision implemented in firmware. Canon have the possibility to change this before the 1D X hits the shelves. They have probably tested focus with f/8 and found it problematic. Instead of receiving critical tests and bad reputation when the camera comes out, they have gone the safe route.

Maybe Canon could distribute an unlock patch if you sign a written agreement that you will use it at your own risk and never complain about the performance of it, publicly or directly....


It's firmware implemented on Canon, it is not so on Nikon, which is why they still attempt AF.. You just have the statement in the manual about being designed for f/5.6. Nikon's AF implementation is different - there is no use of points that become active with wider aperture lenses.



Oct 19, 2011 at 02:27 AM
ViscaB
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p.31 #11 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


Not for me unfortunately. Canon is playing the waiting game on the high res models to see what Sony/Nikon cooks up. The 5D mark II is still a trump card. Only when a high resolution D800 is released will we see fireworks. Canon clearly regards the Nikon D3x as a niche product.


Oct 19, 2011 at 02:33 AM
justruss
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p.31 #12 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


I think the 1Dx makes a lot of sense.

(Obviously, just my opinion... only saying that since the FM crowd seems to be in one of its snappy phases.)

The 1-series body (size/weight/sealing/bombproofness) mainly makes sense for shooters who don't need miles and miles of resolution (even for most professional DSLR uses, by volume, 12 MP is probably more than enough) anyway. It's for sports, crazy weather conditions, daily high-volume shooting, and long lenses.

In my opinion-- since at least the DSLR days-- the 1Ds series has been moving ever more closer to odd duck status. The 1D always made more sense: faster, lower MP... for people who need to get the shot, not people who are going to take their time to set up the shot and soak up as much resolution as possible. The 1D, and now the 1Dx, is about getting the shot not matter what: AF, DR, ISO. The 18 MP is enough for almost all uses one can envision with a DSLR for professional purposes.

And let's remember that the 1-series are squarely aimed at professional uses-- though plenty of amateur shoots (specially on a gear board) use 'em anyway. That's part of the reason I think the 1DSIII doesn't make a lot of sense.

I see the 5-series follow-up, whether it's a mkIII or a new camera altogether (3D, or some other name) taking over the high-megapixel crown in the Canon lineup. I expect it to retain and improve on the video performance for up to moderate (previously ultra high) ISO, but shine in the lower ISO ranges (an area where Canon has made compromises in the past because it tried to make the 5-series a low-light wonder). The 1Dx will be the new low-light video and still king. The 5D follow-up will be the normal to moderate light pure image quality king. I expect the 5D follow-up to get better AF-- but not 1-series quality. There's plenty of complaining about the 5Dmk2 here in terms of AF... but for the vast, vast majority of uses, even those professional ones-- and notably those this camera is designed for (not sports)-- the AF is great.

New lineup would look something like:

(Potential MF; doubtful, but possible in the 2 to 5 year range)

1DX - "get the shot" with great but not "pure IQ" king. This is a pure utility, professional shooter's camera. Studio photogs will either be OK with the 5D follow-up, or be in the category where a MF (phase 1, leaf) is the go to equipment. This is how the 1-series should be. Fewer deep-pocket amateurs will buy it, because it will be even less suited now than before for what they do. It will confer fewer bragging rights-- but do what pros need better than ever before. Perfect! (Upshot is that Canon might keep developing this camera with pros in mind, and stop this nonsense of trying to please amateur shooters; ultimately... better for almost everyone.)

5D-follow-up - pure IQ king, in still and video (at normal to moderate light/ISO levels). It will not be the "get every shot no matter what" camera, and while it will continue to shine in low-light, it really won't be able to compete with the 1Dx in this area. Those amateurs who flocked to the 1-series before will move down to here, in a camera that suits them better (I'd argue that highly skilled amateurs are, on the whole, more skewed towards technical perfection in IQ than pros; pros are more skewed towards getting the shot... and composition of the shot... than technical perfection). Many pros will continue to use this camera too, those like me, who travel, and have an emphasis on IQ over "getting the shot" every single time. Video will be superb for when you can set up your shots and control the environment; 1DX will be better for video where you are going in with no idea what you're gonna be shooting in (or when you go intending to shot only stills, but you decide you need some moving images).

7D - Some kind of crop, I'd guess 90% it stays 1.6 and not 1.3 (EF-s lenses, and "reach"). It'll be a mini 1Dx in a lot of ways. Perfect for higher-end family, travel shoots. Fine for weddings. Fine as a backup/2nd for many pro shooters who don't go 1D/1D or 1D/5D. Wouldn't be surprised if it continues to have better moving AF than the 5D-follow-up.

And below that, the ever shifting world of XXD, XXXD, and XXXXD.

The end result is a simpler camera line-up at the top. Better differentiation regarding whom each camera is for (1Ds/5D confluence was a bit crazy IMO). Better development in the future, aiming at specific uses rather than trying to make each camera a master of everything-- while crippling counter-parts in certain areas to retain rounded sales, and fuller price-points, along the full line-up. It's a win.



Oct 19, 2011 at 04:27 AM
Beni
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p.31 #13 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


When actually are the Olympics? Will there be enough time for the pro's to try, test and get comfortable with the new AF (and believe me they will be wary) before trusting it to such an important event?


Oct 19, 2011 at 04:29 AM
Beni
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p.31 #14 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


Next question, is there finally a real auto iso?


Oct 19, 2011 at 04:31 AM
thw2
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p.31 #15 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


Beni wrote:
When actually are the Olympics? Will there be enough time for the pro's to try, test and get comfortable with the new AF (and believe me they will be wary) before trusting it to such an important event?


27-July to 12-Aug, 2012. London, UK.



Oct 19, 2011 at 04:33 AM
Fred Relaix
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p.31 #16 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


justruss wrote:
I think the 1Dx makes a lot of sense.

(Obviously, just my opinion... only saying that since the FM crowd seems to be in one of its snappy phases.)

The 1-series body (size/weight/sealing/bombproofness) mainly makes sense for shooters who don't need miles and miles of resolution (even for most professional DSLR uses, by volume, 12 MP is probably more than enough) anyway. It's for sports, crazy weather conditions, daily high-volume shooting, and long lenses.

In my opinion-- since at least the DSLR days-- the 1Ds series has been moving ever more closer to odd duck status. The 1D always made more sense:
...Show more

+1, could not agree more.



Oct 19, 2011 at 04:59 AM
PhilDrinkwater
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p.31 #17 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


Fred Relaix wrote:
+1, could not agree more.

Me too.. although I still wondering which of those cameras would be perfect for the mid range wedding photographer:

1dx - too expensive
5diii - we'll see what the high ISO is like. If it's as good as the current 5dii or better and AF is at least 7d quality, this would probably be the most popular
7d - *most* wedding photographers prefer full frame for high ISO capability and the wide angle capabilities

So... really it would mean the 5diii will have to be able to do a good job of being a wedding photographers camera. To be fair I have a 5dii right now and I love it. It produces amazing files. If it focussed fantastically I'd be totally happy.

Personally, if the weight isn't an issue for me, I think I'll get a 1dx for the key reason specified - it's the "get it no matter what" camera. With my style of wedding photography that's key. I need to focus INCREDIBLY fast and accurately. I need great high ISO up to 3200. I need brilliant prints up to A3. That camera will do all of this for me.

However, I'd happily take a camera which was £1000 less and only did 5fps... that's the one feature I don't expect I'll use much. That said, if I expect it to last me 5 years (and it will), it'll cost me £1000 per year effectively. Even if I choose to upgrade in 3 years, I suspect it'll still bring £2000, so it'll still cost me £1000 a year.

All in all, it's a great addition to the canon lineup in my view, but it does leave some holes and gaps for other people which maybe Canon need to sort out with other bodies.



Oct 19, 2011 at 05:34 AM
Sp12
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p.31 #18 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


alundeb wrote:
The choice of attempting to focus or not with f/8 aperture is a decision implemented in firmware. Canon have the possibility to change this before the 1D X hits the shelves. They have probably tested focus with f/8 and found it problematic. Instead of receiving critical tests and bad reputation when the camera comes out, they have gone the safe route.

Maybe Canon could distribute an unlock patch if you sign a written agreement that you will use it at your own risk and never complain about the performance of it, publicly or directly....


What evidence do you have of this? There are hardware changes in the setup of the actual AF sensor that determine ability to AF with different apertures.



Oct 19, 2011 at 05:37 AM
alundeb
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p.31 #19 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


Sp12 wrote:
What evidence do you have of this? There are hardware changes in the setup of the actual AF sensor that determine ability to AF with different apertures.


The evidence is very simple, you can trick an f/5.6 AF system on any Canon camera to attempt focus with f/8 optics just by fooling the camera with the reported aperture. The taping pins on a TC trick is an example of that.



Oct 19, 2011 at 05:41 AM
Hrow
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p.31 #20 · EOS 1D-X! March 2012!


I agree in general. However, I think you will see Canon "just" drop a 36 MP sensor into this body, add $2 - 3 K and call it an "S". Now that the 1D lines are merged there is virtually no reason not to take advantage of the R&D that is already done. The only change needed would be a reduction in FPS.

This move does allow them to add some features (better AF and extra FPS) to the 5D and make it a more usable camera without stepping on the 1DXs toes too much.


Fred Relaix wrote:
+1, could not agree more.




Oct 19, 2011 at 06:03 AM
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