omarlyn wrote:
Let me clarify to some respondents who may not have read the entire thread...although Drew's initial opening post may or may not appear to be insensitive, it was actually ANOTHER member's reply that totally trampled the insensitivity line! I can see & understand Drew's initial post (even if I disagree with it) from a practicality/business point of view but he didn't outright call out anyone's religous views. It was another member's reply that equated religious views & policy with "disrespect"! That guy ...the one with the "disrespect" reply is a real idiot!
Omar
THANK YOU! I feel like everyone is going after me!
I meant nothing against B&H, they have received thousands of dollars of my business. Not because of loyalty, but because of price.
In this instance, they lost my business because they closed on a Wednesday through Friday. That is all I am saying. I know that their reason is due to religious holiday, but it has nothing to do with me, so therefore I am not saying anything about their reason. All I am saying is that from a business perspective, it is not a wise move no matter what their reason was. I am absolutely sure that they lost business. My business for example!
I do have respect for their reasons, I am a religious man myself...that is all I will say.
Just an observance, because I wanted to do my research about why they were closed.
senorjax wrote:
It has everything to do with religion. You obviously still don't realize why they are closing even though many folks have tried to explain it to you. Thankfully, there are still some businesses like B&H left.
I've many Jewish friends and have learned that Judaism is as much about respecting and keeping alive the "old ways" or traditions as it is religion.
Chris Cooke wrote:
Everytime B&H is closed, whether it be on Sabbath or a holiday, I wait and order when they are open, no loss of business.
Everyone wants 24/7 EVERYTHING. Do you get mad when you favorite restuarant isnt open at 3am? No, because all businesses have to be closed at some point. What about Home Depot? if your toilet breaks do you complain because they arent open at that exact time that you need a new one? No! you turn off the water and deal with it till you can fix it.
THANK YOU! I feel like everyone is going after me!
I meant nothing against B&H, they have received thousands of dollars of my business. Not because of loyalty, but because of price.
In this instance, they lost my business because they closed on a Wednesday through Friday. That is all I am saying. I know that their reason is due to religious holiday, but it has nothing to do with me, so therefore I am not saying anything about their reason. All I am saying is that from a business perspective, it is not a wise move no matter what their reason was. I am absolutely sure that they lost business. My business for example!
I do have respect for their reasons, I am a religious man myself...that is all I will say.
Just an observance, because I wanted to do my research about why they were closed.
Looks like the holiday is SUKKOT (Feast of Tabernacles)
Can anyone explain why this Holiday is so important that is would shut down a business for so much time? (I am serious, I want understand!)
- End Quote
I've watched this from the sidelines with some degree of interest and amusement, but casting that aside here are my thoughts.
First, if you are a religious man I would assume that you understand that some things are more important than business and that decisions that lose YOUR business are minor when compared with THEIR moral obligations as THEY see them.
Second, B&H have shown me that by placing their religious/moral beliefs above every last dollar that could possibly run through their store that I can trust them when I do spend money with them. So they have in fact earned more of MY business by showing that they are honorable, even though I am not a religious person.
Third, and I think this has been mentioned several times but it bears repeating - besides yourself,who cares that this observance has nothing to do with YOU? That's like saying the rotation of the earth has nothing to do with you and since you want to see the 2014 Winter Olympics live they need to schedule all events with YOU in mind. After all, it's not your fault that Russia is almost halfway around the world.
Hey, B&H observe their moral beliefs differently than you but why does that mean they (and perhaps all people of all beliefs, political persuasions, sexual orientation and business hours) must use YOU as a guide? Come on, it's a big world and it's time to be a big boy.
As for B&H, they act fairly, give good notice, do not obligate anyone to follow their practice and are willing to take the consequences of their own actions, even if it means losing some business. Good for them, and the world would be a much better place if more people did likewise.
"At Adorama we do appreciate that our closing times can be inconvenient to some of our potential customers.
Adorama's owner is an observant orthodox Jewish gentleman, whose beliefs prohibit him - his family and his business - from operating on the Sabbath and on many of the religious holidays (which all begin an hour prior to sunset the evening before the day of the holiday, which is why we close early on Fridays).
We can't employ non-Jews here during those days, because to do so would involve the company conducting business - which is forbidden in Jewish Law."
1KIND wrote:
Here is a blogpost by Helen from Adorama...
"...We can't employ non-Jews here during those days, because to do so would involve the company conducting business - which is forbidden in Jewish Law."
That's a point that some here may not understand, so it's good that you posted Helen's explaination.
I don't know all the sources/references that would cover this situation, but regarding the Jewish sabbath, for example, Exodus 20:10 in my Bible, which is taken from the Jewish Torah, says:
"...the seventh day is a sabbath unto the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates."
I assume that the same rationale applies to holy days other than the sabbath as well.
Wait you mean B&H have something deeper than capitalist greed at the core of their business structure? Sounds mighty rare and valuable to me in today's society.
After many years, it's almost funny to see the same posts arise every time B&H closes for their holidays. What's so strange about this? It's their business; they can close whenever they like. If I ran a business and closed it on Nation Talk LIke a Pirate day, it's my decision. The business will either sink or swim. You, as a customer, can support my business model or go elsewhere.
Ronald Reagan said people vote with their feet. They also vote with their dollars. If you don't like the business practices of B&H, then don't buy from them. They advertise their schedule a year in advance. It's not a surprise when they close.
If this were a business closing for some funky holidays, like the one mentioned earlier, would there be so much blather about it, or is it because it involves religious holidays?
The bottom line remains - their business, their decision. Get over it; stop whining.
DanBrown wrote:
After many years, it's almost funny to see the same posts arise every time B&H closes for their holidays. What's so strange about this? It's their business; they can close whenever they like. If I ran a business and closed it on Nation Talk LIke a Pirate day, it's my decision. The business will either sink or swim. You, as a customer, can support my business model or go elsewhere.
Ronald Reagan said people vote with their feet. They also vote with their dollars. If you don't like the business practices of B&H, then don't buy from them. They advertise their schedule a year in advance. It's not a surprise when they close.
If this were a business closing for some funky holidays, like the one mentioned earlier, would there be so much blather about it, or is it because it involves religious holidays?
The bottom line remains - their business, their decision. Get over it; stop whining. ...Show more →
BrianO wrote:
"Religion" may not automatically deserve respect, but what about the respect of the individual as a person? Should we not respect a person and not rise up against his or her actions taken as a result of his or her beliefs so long as they don't infringe on our own?
Further, while you may believe that [unspecified] religion(s) doen't respect other religions, the truth is that most religions teach respect for others, even those who believe differently. We may believe that another person is incorrect in their beliefs, but we still respect them as a person. In fact, love of our fellows is why we attempt conversions...to save others....Show more →
I do indeed agree that we should respect an individual as a person! I completely agree that as long as someone else's actions do not infringe upon our rights, we can let them believe what they like.
Unfortunately, you have contradicted yourself in your last sentence: attempting to convert someone, trying to convince them of your beliefs, is not avoiding infringement upon theirs. (For example, I think telling someone they will be banished to hell and tortured for eternity if they don't believe the same, is a horrible thing) How can you say that religion teaches respect for others, when even members of the same so-called religion cannot stop killing one another (Shia and Sunni Muslims, for example)?
@Grant: Perhaps the argument is not intended to be the right or wrong of religion. However, many people have "praised" or told of respect for the store closing because of its religious beliefs, so I felt justified in pointing out my disagreement with those sentiments. A store or two closing certain days does not really disturb me, but basing your life and actions on religious books (which include rules and acts only a psychopath would deem acceptable) does. Again, we should not forget that when the church was basically all-powerful, they did not have any regard for people who disagreed with any of their beliefs; and the mercy shown to those, well, non-existent.
laurapalmer wrote:
A store or two closing certain days does not really disturb me, but basing your life and actions on religious books (which include rules and acts only a psychopath would deem acceptable) does. Again, we should not forget that when the church was basically all-powerful, they did not have any regard for people who disagreed with any of their beliefs; and the mercy shown to those, well, non-existent.
I couldn't agree more. It's time for the owners of B&H to publicly apologize for the Inquisition. Rabbi Feinstein, you've got some 'splainin to do.
Wow. This certainly turning in to a discussion. There are numerous manufacturing companies in Europe that decide to shut down for vacation for the entire month of august. You just have to plan for it.
I am aware of several Photo Studio's that are only open for business Monday through Thursday by appointment only. They are still surviving.
You do your research and make your decisions from there. It is a well know fact that B&H has their times of being open. It is their business model.
I feel sorry for those that want access to buy or do anything 7x24. It must be a sad and lonely life. There are just some things that are worth more. Family life is one of them.
BrianO wrote:
I don't know all the sources/references that would cover this situation, but regarding the Jewish sabbath, for example, Exodus 20:10 in my Bible, which is taken from the Jewish Torah, says:
"...the seventh day is a sabbath unto the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates."
I assume that the same rationale applies to holy days other than the sabbath as well.
This is correct. There are a number of holidays for which the Torah says "you shall not do any work". Those are 7 days in September/October (Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, and Sukkot), 4 days in April (Passover), and two days in June (Shavuot). These are the days B&H and Adorama are closed.
There are certain legal loopholes that certain businesses (like J&R) use to get around having to close. But not everyone believes in those loopholes.
