Chris Beaumont wrote:
There's a lot of world-famous artists and musicians, living and dead, who kinda disprove that quite spectacularly.
Keith Moon seemed to do OK after more than even heavy drinkers have in a year.
And for the record, if it's genuinely offered, I've got all the "must have" shots out of the way, and it's just 3 hours of dancing ahead of me...Maybe it's because we got the whole puritanical thing out of our system 400 years ago and became a Nation second only to the Irish when it comes to a reputation for drink, but to me it seems borderline hysteric that anyone could possibly think joining 2 very happy newly-weds for ONE drink because they enjoy your company and think you've worked damned hard for the last 12 hours is somehow going to ruin their special day......talk about first-world problems man, there's a severe lack of perspective going on somewhere....Show more →
To use Keith moon as an example that it's ok to take a couple of drinks while you are working is just ridiculous. He passed out many times on stage after drinking. his nickname was "Moon the Loon" because of his self-destructive behaviour when drinking. He was banned from Holiday Inn, Sheraton,Hilton Hotels,and the Waldorf Astoria because of his behaviour when drinking. He used physical violence against his wife when drinking.
Yes he was a great drummer. And he would have been even greater if he had stayed away from drinking
KetchamPhoto wrote:
Glort and Littlebike, before you make fun of the people who choose not to drink at weddings, take a look at the way you are coming off here. You are so defensive of your decision to drink, it seems that perhaps you aren't totally comfortable with it yourself.
So if I drink the groom dies?
I heard kittens die when one masturbates, is that true too?
I have also learned people die at airshows, that does not mean I will not attend an airshow.
On a serious note: I was broadsided by a drunk driver in 1993. He ran a red light going 70, if my car had been another 5 feet into the intersection I would be dead. I was not driving and neither of us were drinking. So I have some experience with the potential consequences but I am not going to let that single experience shape the eternity of my existence, it can inform it but not be the singular influence.
I am not defensive, I am entertained, I am laughing because this thread is insane.
There is a vast difference between getting drunk and a glass or two of wine, or champagne, or beer, or cocktails; especially when those two drinks are spread over the 4-5 hour period that is a wedding reception.
One of my mantras is I want to work as little as possible and enjoy life as much as possible, to this end, I do not do work I do not enjoy. And before you say it, drinking does not equal enjoyment nor is it required.
Chris Beaumont wrote:
then I feel bad for you, hope you're happy and wish you all the best, but please don't judge those with clients less pious/uptight/open/whatever adjective doesn't upset your sensibilites
As RDKirk has pointed out, the most judgemental comments are actually coming from those who think drinking on the job at weddings is OK. You sure are a defensive bunch.
dmacmillan wrote:
As RDKirk has pointed out, the most judgemental comments are actually coming from those who think drinking on the job at weddings is OK. You sure are a defensive bunch.
There have been some comments to the effect that drinking is mandatory--if you don't drink, you won't get hired by anyone because you're a stick in the mud.
RD (ignoring rest as apparently even hyperbolic examples don't get the point across...)
You are, of course, self-evidentally and totally correct, anyone who ever thinks the extreme example of anything is wrong about 99% of the time, of course drinking isn't mandatory, you're there to do a job, drinking because you want one, I'm sure any reasonable person would see isn't a good idea, and probably is borderline unprofessional even IF you know the couple's attitude will be OK, but by the same token anyone who thinks having a beer, when offered, at the end of the night, is a total no-no under any circumstances, cannot be serious, even Oliver Cromwell wasn't that strict........
Seriously? Where's the moderation? I know it's the internet but aren't we all grown up enough to see that not everything in the world has a yes/no answer that must be defended more than your Mother's honour?
Look...@Ketchum, if I put on my blog (in fact I think I have on a couple of occasions) that it was "an amazing wedding, an amazing day and big thanks to Joe and Josephine for everything, that beer you bought me at midnight really hit the spot"
You think I'd lose work for it? Jesus, what kind of judgmental asses do you hang around with? I've bought/given from my fridge plenty of cool ones for workmen if they've done a long day's work, I've also (in another life in the computing world) done a week's subcontracting working under a guy charging £2000 a day for his time where 2 bottles of wine between 4 of us at lunch was de rigeur and sociable before an afternoon 'getting the job done' (miraculous how it's still possible really eh?) Joined by his client who positively encouraged it, I've also done jobs where my contract made it explicit that one pint at lunchtime is instant dismissal, and shot for a guy on this forum doing Ultra Orthodox Jewish weddings where alcohol is very very rare and for me to have a drink would (quite rightly) have resulted in him kicking my ass across the parking lot, I don't see why you feel the need to view all 4 of these scenarios under EXACTLY the same criterion.
like I'm trying to say, it's not all black and white, obviously sometimes it's a very bad idea, sometimes it's a great way to bond, I'm trying to be rational and moderate,but you seem to just want to argue with me rather than debate an interesting issue, and I don't want some sort of flame war, so please excuse me if I stop replying to you.
KetchamPhoto wrote:
Glort and Littlebike, before you make fun of the people who choose not to drink at weddings, take a look at the way you are coming off here.
Apparently I am a pariah for having the nerve to note I have a cocktail or two then defending that position against those who say it is totally and wholly unprofessional.
I am not making fun of anybody not drinking, feel free not to drink but do not ridicule those who do. If somebody is going to flip their lid and start making accusations then yes, I am going to laugh at them but I am not going to call them unprofessional nor put them on a pedestal.
KetchamPhoto wrote:
Look yourself Peumont, I hang with GROWN-UPS, who do not NEED alcohol to enjoy themselves...not "judgemental Asses".
My clients choose me because I am a PROFESSIONAL, not their buddy. I work for them. I would never presume to be anything else. I am asked to have a drink at every wedding. And I politely decline. Because that's the PROFESSIONAL, GROWN-UP thing to do. Acting in a professional manner is not something that varies from day to day. I choose to hold myself to that standard. In a social setting, hey drink up. But I will not while working.
And NEVER did I say someone couldn't "get the job done" after a drink. Why so defensive eh?
The Blog comment was directed at Littlebike.
"One of my mantras is I want to work as little as possible and enjoy life as much as possible, to this end, I do not do work I do not enjoy."
Not exactly the kind of person I would hire, nor would many people I know. ...Show more →
So....it's impossible to be friends with someone paying you, presumptuous to have a friendly relationship with the big boss client (very 1880's master/servant retro cool! Kudos!) impossible to have both a drink AND have fun without NEEDING (again, your emphasis) alcohol in an addictive, dependant way and doing anything else is "unprofessional and childish" (opposite of your emphasis)
Well I'm glad we cleared up that you're not being judgmental at least.
Anyway, as you're basically about 4 messages away from invoking Godwin's Law, if you reply to me you'll just be shouting to the breeze, I'm gonna hang with anyone who doesn't make Bachmann look tolerant who wants to actually debate not name-call.
Littlebike wrote:
Apparently I am a pariah for having the nerve to note I have a cocktail or two then defending that position against those who say it is totally and wholly unprofessional.
KetchamPhoto wrote:
The Blog comment was directed at Littlebike.
"One of my mantras is I want to work as little as possible and enjoy life as much as possible, to this end, I do not do work I do not enjoy."
Not exactly the kind of person I would hire, nor would many people I know.
And you clearly misunderstood the meaning of my statement just as you misunderstand what it means to be a grown-up.
I do not do work I do not enjoy. This means, as a professional, if somebody approaches me about a shoot that I know does not fall into one of my strengths then I refer them to people I know who do phenomenal job with that subject matter. Things I do not shoot:
- senior portraits
- babies
- head shots
- models
I know those subjects do not fall into my realm so I refer them to other photographers I know who specialize in it.
I professional knows their strengths and their weaknesses, a good professional has the integrity to admit that and send the client to correct photographer for the job.
I spend to much of my life working to be miserable doing it, so I do work I enjoy and it shows and those who work with me see it and enjoy it. We all get better results from it.
Littlebike wrote:
The Blog comment was directed at Littlebike.
"One of my mantras is I want to work as little as possible and enjoy life as much as possible, to this end, I do not do work I do not enjoy."
And you clearly misunderstood the meaning of my statement just as you misunderstand what it means to be a grown-up.
I do not do work I do not enjoy. This means, as a professional, if somebody approaches me about a shoot that I know does not fall into one of my strengths then I refer them to people I know who do phenomenal job with that subject matter. Things I do not shoot:
- senior portraits
- babies
- head shots
- models
I know those subjects do not fall into my realm so I refer them to other photographers I know who specialize in it.
...Show more →
I would have never been able to glean your explanation from "One of my mantras is to work as little as possible."
Don't we all aspire to work as little as possible?
Does anyone here think "I wish I spent more time editing and less time outside/with the kids/with my partner/abroad/powersliding the Lamborghini that my ludicrously high wedding prices bought?"
Assuming you get enough work to actually pay the bills....surely all of us want MORE free time?
dmacmillan wrote:
I would have never been able to glean your explanation from "One of my mantras is to work as little as possible."
The way you edited my comment down to a sound bite I must believe you work for Fox news. Hopefully you did not attend college only reading cliff notes.
My entire quote is:
"One of my mantras is I want to work as little as possible and enjoy life as much as possible, to this end, I do not do work I do not enjoy."
ok Chez, I'm saying this without aggression or sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested to know what part of what I've said about drinking at weddings is "unprofessional" ?
Engage, don't just make snide remarks, how does that benefit anyone or the debate?
Littlebike wrote:
The way you edited my comment down to a sound bite I must believe you work for Fox news. Hopefully you did not attend college only reading cliff notes.
My entire quote is:
"One of my mantras is I want to work as little as possible and enjoy life as much as possible, to this end, I do not do work I do not enjoy."
OK, point taken. I understand your meaning now and I'm all for efficient work doing what I enjoy, then getting home to family and friends, and who knows, maybe have a drink or two!
Actually, I could never find Cliff notes for the assignments I received in photo school, nor could I find shortcuts to creating the applications I had to develop when I was getting my second degree in computer science.
That was harsh! No-one deserves the Glen Beck treatment, that might be the NEW Godwin's Law - "sooner or later during an internet argument, someone will bring up Fox News"
We could call it the macmillan law
Impressed that you went to photo school too, I know and admire your work, my experience with "formally educated" photographers has....well it's not been inspiring shall we say.
