Chris Beaumont wrote:
ok Chez, I'm saying this without aggression or sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested to know what part of what I've said about drinking at weddings is "unprofessional" ?
Engage, don't just make snide remarks, how does that benefit anyone or the debate?
Chris, post was not directed at anyone in specific. Just looks like people are about to put the gloves on and duke it out.
From my viewpoint, everyone runs their business how they see fit. Some show up to a shoot driving a 95 civic and some show up driving a new BMW. Some wear jeans to a wedding, others a suit. Some will drink at a wedding, others not. It really is your own decision on what is important for your own business. There is no black or white answers here.
Chris Beaumont wrote:
my experience with "formally educated" photographers has....well it's not been inspiring shall we say.
I hear you. I actually went to a trade school.
chez wrote:
Some show up to a shoot driving a 95 civic...
Now you're talking trash. I'll have you know that until a month ago, when I traded it in for a new Civic, I drove a 95 Civic! It had 232k on the odometer at trade in.
As far as clothing goes, I bet some show up at nudist weddings completely devoid of clothing! Of course, the nice thing about nudist weddings is that it's easy to spot the best man.
chez wrote:
Chris, post was not directed at anyone in specific. Just looks like people are about to put the gloves on and duke it out.
From my viewpoint, everyone runs their business how they see fit. Some show up to a shoot driving a 95 civic and some show up driving a new BMW. Some wear jeans to a wedding, others a suit. Some will drink at a wedding, others not. It really is your own decision on what is important for your own business. There is no black or white answers here.
Fair enough, my apologies, it seems like a really strange thread to me, I find it SO bizarre that there's some people who really are treating it as a black/white issue, as a "no under any circumstances, that's just unprofessional" - which is fair enough if you believe that, more power to ya, I'm almost in the same boat about meals, I often get asked if I want to join them during dinner for the 3 courses, and always decline because that's the time I want to rest my feet for a bit, have a flick through what I've got, assess what's gone well, what's gone badly and plan the 2nd half of my day, I also try and do ring shots during dinner....but I would NEVER judge someone who wanted to socialise and network during dinner and dismiss them as unprofessional under any circumstances in the way things have been portrayed about drinking, almost like the bride/groom are going "do you want a drink?"
"no thanks"
"ah go on"
"nah I'm ok honestly"
"please, for us?"
"oh ok then"
"DID YOU SEE WHAT OUR PHOTOGRAPHER JUST DID??"
As if it's a trap! Maybe it's a cultural thing, I know the US tends to be more religious and/or (depending on whether you believe the two are inextricably linked) more conservative, but you ask your average British photographer and by 9/10PM everyone's pretty well oiled (in a shouting "WOOOOAAAAH WE'RE HALF WAY THEEERE...WOOOOAH LIVING ON A PRAYER" way, not a rolling on the floor dry-heaving way)
chez wrote:
Some wear jeans to a wedding, others a suit. Some will drink at a wedding, others not. It really is your own decision on what is important for your own business. There is no black or white answers here.
Great point. I work with a photographer who gets great results; he wears a black t-shirt and casual black pants and black tennis shoes. I was surprised at his apparent casual attire, his response was "I want to worry about the shot, not if I am going to scuff my shoes, stain my pants, or damage my shirt".
He is an old school photojournalist who has traveled the world for shoots, this is how he operates and he is a professional.
Personally, I am always a bit better dressed than he is and frequently people think I am the lead photographer - he prefers it that way, he can concentrate on his shots and not aunt nancy trying to get a family portrait on the brides dime.
dmacmillan wrote:
You may have missed the point. You're not there to have a good time, you're paid to be there to do a job. That doesn't mean you can't have a great time, I almost always did, but that's not why I showed up at a wedding of someone I didn't know until they hired me to cover it.
Edit - I do agree if you don't have fun shooting weddings then you should think about doing something else.
I know it's rude to hijack such an informative thread :-)
I disagree. I am there to have a good time. It's vital. If I'm not enjoying myself I don't do my best work. I, like many others, will say a polite no to any client where I think I won't have a great time. No one going to hire a photographer who looks like he/she doesn't want to be there. Heck, it's a part of my shooting style.
This thread and many of the comments are a hoot!
The analagys and what if's are so far fetched it makes me wonder if people are serious or just trying to get a rise from the stupid statements that are being made.
Please carry on wowsers and uber professionals.
It's hard to find comedy like this anywhere else.
I didn't remove the comments for any other reason than that I was tired of this ridiculous ongoing battle over what amounts to nothing. You do things your way, I'll do them mine.
SoloHiker wrote:
If boozing it up in front of clients is the height of professionalism for some, rock on.
So to you, 1 or 2 drinks is Boozing it up?
Seems to be the opionated but laughable belief here.
Dunno how many times people have said 1 or 2 drinks but the high and mighty keep wanting to turn that into people getting off their face and losing control and that they can't survive without having a drink and all the other stupid rot they have spun this into thread.
No one has said you HAVE to drink, no one has suggested getting chitfaced was appropriate, no one has said that they thought any more than 1 or 2 drinks was appropriate but those with the moralistic views have contorted and twisted their side out of reality and then blamed those with opposing opinions for doing that.
People should read what has been said before going off on irrelevant and foolish tangents.
Once again for the reformed alco's and do gooders, if you don't think it's appropriate to have a drink at a wedding, fine, but stop trying to make out everyone that can conduct them selves in a professional manner whilst having one or 2 drinks are in some way unprofessional or casting dispersions upon the way they go about their work.
I have never been drunk in my life, I wouldn't even average on drink a month but I bet I could be off my face and after 25 years shooting weddings, still give a lot of the johnny come latelys a run for their money with the work I could produce.
In that 25+ years I have had a drink at a wedding, sometimes 2 and I have yet to ever had anyone think that was improper or unprofessional or anything else. Given the amount of referals I get, it certainly hasn't hurt my business one little bit.
It's going to take a hell of a lot more than one or 2 drinks to make any difference to what I do and as for legalities, like a said a few pages back, forget the Internet forum paranoia, show my where it has ever happened that someone got sued for having one or 2 drinks.
The focus of this thread has gone from the original question to the ridicilous remarks and excuses people dredge up to try and push their views as being the only correct ones that anyone who dosen't follow is guilty of sub standard working practices.
"The focus of this thread has gone from the original question to the ridicilous remarks and excuses people dredge up to try and " push their views as being the only correct ones that anyone who dosen't follow is guilty of sub standard working practices."
The focus of this thread has gone from the original question to the ridicilous remarks and excuses people dredge up to try and push their views as being the only correct ones that anyone who dosen't follow is guilty of sub standard working practices.
Actually, the OP's initial (and only) provocative comment and your immediate and equally (and intentionally) provocative response did the exact same thing.
KetchamPhoto wrote:
"The focus of this thread has gone from the original question to the ridicilous remarks and excuses people dredge up to try and " push their views as being the only correct ones that anyone who dosen't follow is guilty of sub standard working practices."
Your are doing the exact same thing...
Really
Show me where I have compared photographers to brain surgeons, brought up grooms being killed, endless far fetched theroies of being sued without evidence of that ever actually happening despite the hundreds of thousands of weddings that take place every year or called having one or 2 drinks "Boozing it up in front of clients" to push my views.
What I have based my position on has been fact, evidence and experience.
None of which support the far fetched rubbish the wowsers have been pushing.
Just like my last post, the wowsers have ignored everything that shoots down their rubbish such as the repeated position of one or 2 drinks and equated that with loss of ability to do ones job properly and called it boozeing it up.
What I have said several times is if you think having a drink is such a detrimental thing, don't do it, I have never twisted having one or two drinks into people not being able to get by without one like they were alchos, I have never maintained that not drinking called a persons professionalism or ability to do their job into question nor have I ever said that one must have a drink which is something else those with opposing views have all twisted and maligned to try and push their views.
And just like so many times before, no dowbt the wowsers will take some small snippet of what I have said here out of context and ifnore all the facts which are not condusive to their position because reality does not support their position and they need to twist and bend things to promote their personal agenda's.
...Glort & Littlebike, I want to hang with you guys some time.
I've had a few drinks at weddings when it's appropriate and the timing is right. Do I shoot formals with a drink in one hand? Of course not. Toward the end of the reception I'll have a drink if I'm offered one. Does it affect my performance? Definitely not. I think I could do pretty much anything after only one drink. Hell, I could land a plane in instrument conditions after one drink. Would I? No, it's illegal.
If my Dr. wanted to have a drink with me after finishing my vasectomy... I think I'd be ok with that.
I'd certainly be happy to hang with someone else that had a grip on reality than was going to drive me nuts with stupid and twisted fear mongering and trying to make out something I have never seen in my 25+ years in the biz is such a terrible threat to all and sundry.
I think some people here I wouldn't be able to stand talking to for longer than 5 minutes before their overly pedantic and unrealistic drivel forced me to leave before I felt myself wanting to shake them to get them to wake up to themselves.
What I'd REALLY like to do would be get some of the wowsers in front on 10 potential clients, tell them I might have a drink or 2 at their wedding and then have the others tell them all about why they wouldn't and then see how many clients would want to go with each shooter.
I'm sure if the experiment was done in the Bible belt of the US then I'd loose but I'm more than confident in most other parts of the world, i'd have nothing at all to worry about.
Met the groom and his guys at the mancave of a professional pool player, it had all the amenities one would expect, snooker, pool, and billiards tables, pool related art, televisions, and (Gasp!) a bar!
Within 15 minutes I was offered a shot, beer, and cocktail - I declined all offers. I told the groom and his guys about this thread and they thought it was ridiculous. "Who cares if you have a drink, if you get sloppy drunk that is something different", says the groom.
Chris Beaumont wrote:
almost like the bride/groom are going "do you want a drink?"
"no thanks"
"ah go on"
"nah I'm ok honestly"
"please, for us?"
"oh ok then"
"DID YOU SEE WHAT OUR PHOTOGRAPHER JUST DID??"
