Todd56 wrote:
If we are all Monkeys, I believe you should have signed up on PCB forum a long time ago and not come back here. But I see you are back.
Not back, just new on the Lighting & Studio Techniques section as of this week. I've recently had an interest in learning about strobes and such. I was getting a feel for what's here when I came across the remnants of the PCB issue. How many times did you threaten to leave in that one thread alone?! From what I can tell, yeah, you're one of the monkeys. Or at least you answered when that name was called.
I'm about to enjoy the use of the "Hide Me" button for sure.
Crash10 wrote:
You missed the best part. Paul was challenged on a flash duration comparison yet the dude posted specs that were LONGER then Paul gave his competitor credit for...then the dude posted that he's melted his cap on...absolutely hilarious!
There were no challenge. I did not post duration either, others did and even confused different products. You are the one who missed the point on that one. Buff got it right away and would not answer but instead got all mad. You need to figure it out on your own.
As for melting a cap, yes I posted I melted one. Even Ellis admitted that this could happen to any one who actually shoot and pack/unpack their stuff on location all the time. One cap over hundreds of shoots x so many heads and you condemn me. Sorry for honestly admitting I melted a cap, may be I should keep inconvenient details for myself like some do.
lsuber wrote:
Not back, just new on the Lighting & Studio Techniques section as of this week. I've recently had an interest in learning about strobes and such. I was getting a feel for what's here when I came across the remnants of the PCB issue. How many times did you threaten to leave in that one thread alone?! From what I can tell, yeah, you're one of the monkeys. Or at least you answered when that name was called.
I'm about to enjoy the use of the "Hide Me" button for sure.
I did not threaten, I said I'm gone unless someone attacks me again. They came back I came back like I said. I was just being honest and did what I said I would. I was insulted too but you do not weight this in. No problem.
lsuber wrote:
I've since registered on his tech forum and look forward to learning as much as I can over there..
Enjoy as long as it lasts..
I thought PCB only visited here because he couldn't control the mayhem on his own forum - and he even had to shut that down because of it?
You can also try POTN, TPPF, PNET, FLICKR, DPR and numerous others.
Flash durations.. moot point really. Paul offered to buy some guy a flash meter to measure duration (after he had already owned 2 or 3 and found them all to be useless). Then, nobody would agree a realistic testing procedure.
Result: Silence. Was that because it never happened or because the results were inconvenient like lots of other evidence which fails to appear?
Something tells me you are missing the complete point of this thread...Let's just say that I am all for manufacturers being on the lighting forum.
I'd hide you but I don't think it's fair that you get to rewrite history..
Oh, you are the guy! The Scoro is the top of the line and from the manufacturer web site it's flash duration 1/8000 s (t 0.1) like I wrote and maintain. The Grafit is 1/7500s and my link goes to the manufacturer web site, not a dealer or any other non official link. Not sure where Buff found 1/8000s unless he confused products like when he mixed the Verso to all this. Absolutely not my fault. But if I correct him and it turns out to be what you would call "his advantage", I am a still a basher. Total non sense. Your link to the Grafit instruction book is of 2004 and out dated. The product was upgraded with the RFS version (V2 or may be something like that). An other link of yours point to 1/7000s then 1/6000s and of course you had to pick the slowest. Again, it's not from the source but from a dealer. Did you have hard time picking all these inaccurate and outdated links?
I never had a problem selling his Einstein. In fact I even helped him improve it and he refused. That sort of back fired on him however and with smoke! See there is no agenda on my side, it's all made up by a specific crowd. I give him help on technical issue, help on sales and even pointed out his product has shorter duration than he thought compared to the Grafit and you tell me I'm a basher. Why do you guys always attempt to make me look like a bad guy, I don't know.
lsuber wrote:
I've since registered on his tech forum and look forward to learning as much as I can over there. In a PCB vs the Forum Monkeys situation, I sure wish the industry leader would have won out. I probably won't or can't gain as much knowledge from the monkeys.
Off you go then, until he closes it down again. Or bans everyone because they don't suck up to him enough, or ask him perfectly valid questions about claims he makes and can't substantiate.
Your POV, coming from your position of almost complete ignorance of what actually happened, is most valued. Thanks for sharing it.
You'll enjoy it over there, you're exactly the sort of poster Paul loves, given your recent statements here.
lsuber wrote:
I, as a new-to-the-Lighting-Forum guy, really really hate to find out that a manufacturer and CEO used to actively participate in this forum and was run off.
To be fair, Paul was not "run off." After many warnings from the moderator to check his attitude at the door, and after refusing to do so, he was banned for his breaking -- many, many times -- of the forum rules of conduct.
Was he the only violator? No; but he was one of the most flagrant.
(He was actually suspended a few times and then allowed back a few times, but each time could only last a short time before reverting to his old behaviors.)
Good engineer? Maybe. Good marketer? Definitely. Good forum member? Nope.
ukphotographer wrote:
As long as they don't state their preference or have an opinion eh? - I get the idea.
..... the idea is that everyone has an opinion be it based on facts or not, agree with it or not, its just an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Conversations can happen without each and every topic and posting turning into a debate or jihad.
However there are those who will irrationally defend or ridicule: a product, a company, business model/practice, technique, someones work to the point of making the "ignore", "hide" and "complain" buttons found in many forums a welcome and useful function. On the positive side many are called "fanboys" and on the negative side many are called "trolls". (IE: trolling for an argument)
The trouble is, if you complain about something - you'd better be sure to have the balls to stand and be counted and if making a point, try to make that point obvious and ensure your base your point on facts.
If I were paying someone for their opinion, maybe I'd hope or wish that the opinion that they gave me was based logically on facts. I'd might even wish to have evidence and supporting arguments from other sources.
However, none of us get paid for posting our opinions and while surely all opinions posted are at least worth what we paid for them, I do know that personally I'll give more weight to opinions which have supporting evidence from multiple and verifiable sources. The seemingly irrational ranting and whining of those that sound like that tend to get ignored or otherwise filtered out and disregarded.
Of course there is no requirement to spend a few extra minutes, hours or days researching and formulating a "article" which states and supports my opinion or the opinion of anyone else.
Most times all I have time for is a sentence or two or paragraph or two.
The self appointed "opinion police" (fanboys and trolls included) are quick to squash any opinion or belief that is outside of their collective "normal thinking".
Your point is ??
The quietness of the forum reflects that the uneducated neanderthals with questionable heritage have found somewhere else to babble their nonsense.
ukphotographer wrote:
A forum is a two way street, unless you actually post something, (once a week is a little low) the forum will be dead. If you want to learn something - sign up on a course, you'll then get somebody who your paying telling you how 'The ONLY way to pose, light, frame, and select camera settings, etc. is the way THEY do it'. Funny, I suspect you wouldn't argue with that. If things are not fast enough for you, you'll need to wait until those same people come back and tell you the way THEY do it, because THEY are actually doing it, and who are quite happy to justify why they do it in a public forum. ...Show more →
I don't consider that coming here to learn from many varied people who will substantiate their position, or opinion, is less valuable than paying an individual for private lessons based on their one opinion rests any case. That just limits your horizons.
Being able to challenge the 'The ONLY way to pose, light, frame, and select camera settings, etc. is the way THEY do it' and discuss the reasons is a much better arrangement. Valuing it seems to be sorely lacking, but heckling from the back benches can easily be found.
It is odd given the huge popularity of strobist type stuff this forum is so quiet.
I do not miss PCB at all, he would fly off the handle at any criticism or suggestions for his products (yes even the screw in a plm) which wasn't really workable for a forum presence.
ukphotographer wrote:
I don't consider that coming here to learn from many varied people who will substantiate their position, or opinion, is less valuable than paying an individual for private lessons based on their one opinion ...
+1
Hardly ... it's the bargain of the day.
Valuing it seems to be sorely lacking, but heckling from the back benches can easily be found.
+1
IMO ... the REAL VALUE of FM is having the ability to hear from such variety of opinion & technique & alternatives to the "tried & true" ... in addition to the "tried & true". Also, having the wealth of individuals who can provide technical "gobbledygook" explanations is something that is very difficult to find elsewhere ... BOTH available in on source. Yet, it is the tone that often overshadows that immense value.
Sadly, the back bench heckling has no value and simply discourages participation / contribution. There is no need to try & restrict/censor alternative perspective or opinion. Readers can & should discern for themselves which / what of the posted material they desire to retain / utlize and which to disregard / dismiss. Just because one or two (or ten) readers doesn't find the info valuable, doesn't mean it isn't valuable to others ... either now or future. Just because it doesn't "work" for you presently, doesn't mean it doesn't work and that it isn't of value for future use. If you don't want to use it ... don't use it ... but the heckling just creates ill-will amongst ourselves and retards the free exchange.
While heckling serves little value, offering up counter position does have purpose. I have appreciated most counter positions when they have been offered in a non-heckling, non-ridicule, non-belittling manner ... and even though it might take a while to get through my 'thick head' sometimes before the "light comes on", correction / alternate expansion is growth of understanding ... and that has tremendous value.
The level of membership runs from total newbies to science geeks to weekend warriors to seasoned pros. EACH & EVERYONE of our members should be able to freely offer up their perspectives, experience, technique ... but please do so without the heckling, ridicule, belittling and condescending context. Today's newbie can be tomorrow's pro ... especially if encouraged rather than heckled. We all have room to expand and most of us come here to do just that. Being heckled or ridiculed ... or having to wade through others being heckled or ridiculed simply does not foster an encouraging & respectful environment.
I have been corrected many times by other members ... and when the light finally came on, I was appreciative of that information / growth. Those members who strive to help you learn are well respected & greatly appreciated, those who heckle your ignorance (i.e. lack of knowledge, for which you came here to improve) do little to provide value. All too often, we forget that we are fellow MEMBERS of FM, and should treat each other with the dignity & respect ... even a respect for ignorance (i.e. newbies or astray), which imo warrants explanation ... not ridicule or heckling. BTW ... "I've been doing it this way since before the dinosaurs hatched." & "I'm rich, famous & ultra-busy, so you should listen to me." isn't explanation ... it might be justification, but it isn't an explanation.
There are those who think I write too much and should be more succint ... to which I agree I have difficulty with. I appreciate the input that they find my writing unnecessary ... and yet, I can't help but wonder if efforts to be more explanative has value for some others ... even if only to offset some of the terseness that exists otherwise.
Mark_L wrote:
It is odd given the huge popularity of strobist type stuff this forum is so quiet.
.
I'm new here as well (like a few of the previous posters), and this is my first post. Just felt like the obvious needed to be pointed out.
Mark_L: It's not that hard to figure out....
For as long as this particular forum is mostly dominated by the jerks like Todd56, miccullen (just to name the most recent from this thread) and the rest of the peanut gallery, it'll continue to be quiet, or dead as the OP put it. Then there's the handful that like nothing better than a good argument over who's right and who's wrong and the semantics of an internet message board conversation. You're those guys that contribute nothing to the community but trouble. A quick check indicates that few, if any, of you ever actually post photographs anywhere on FM. Just snide comments and argumentative statements. If this board is anything like the others I've been on, then I suspect a few of you will be responding shortly and proving my point, and your identity.
Lloyd Grace hit the nail on the head with his post earlier, and RustyBug just now makes similar points. Until the jerks are reined in, this will continue to be their bully pulpit. If that's what the majority wants for it to be, then have at it, and leave the other subforums alone. At least you're all contained here. But if you want it to be a more open discussion where the experienced can help the inexperienced, well, there's some housecleaning that needs to happen first.
heelsfn wrote:
I'm new here as well (like a few of the previous posters), and this is my first post. Just felt like the obvious needed to be pointed out.
Mark_L: It's not that hard to figure out....
For as long as this particular forum is mostly dominated by the jerks like Todd56, miccullen (just to name the most recent from this thread) and the rest of the peanut gallery, it'll continue to be quiet, or dead as the OP put it. Then there's the handful that like nothing better than a good argument over who's right and who's wrong and the semantics of an internet message board conversation. You're those guys that contribute nothing to the community but trouble. A quick check indicates that few, if any, of you ever actually post photographs anywhere on FM. Just snide comments and argumentative statements. If this board is anything like the others I've been on, then I suspect a few of you will be responding shortly and proving my point, and your identity.
Lloyd Grace hit the nail on the head with his post earlier, and RustyBug just now makes similar points. Until the jerks are reined in, this will continue to be their bully pulpit. If that's what the majority wants for it to be, then have at it, and leave the other subforums alone. At least you're all contained here. But if you want it to be a more open discussion where the experienced can help the inexperienced, well, there's some housecleaning that needs to happen first. ...Show more →
Well you are the first one for a while to actually point at names, not vaguely refer to members that people have to figure out on their own. I like that.
I don't know you, I don't name call you, so if I'm a jerk, I would expect to get more details on what makes me a jerk with specifics. Name calling is easy to do. Oddly Buff has name called me too and even insulted me a few times. Any associations?
No I do not post pictures and I don't plan on it. In fact I did not know it was mandatory. Is it? I don't ask you either and I did not try to make up that rule either.
Honesttly, I don't know why you are mad. I'm sure it's related to Buff one way or an other but you don't provide details. I had no power over getting Buff banned and I did not ask for it like he did ask for me to be removed but I' don't mind his departure. I suggest you go see his forum over limiting access of those "subforums" to specific individuals on Fred's forum.
To sum it up, this is your first post, you've already name called people, argue and requested people you dislike to post pictures. In fact as you put it, "You're those guys that contribute nothing to the community but trouble"
..... the idea is that everyone has an opinion be it based on facts or not, agree with it or not, its just an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Conversations can happen without each and every topic and posting turning into a debate or jihad.
