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Leica M/X/T Picture Thread
  
 
rscheffler
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p.661 #1 · p.661 #1 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Thanks guys!

Edward, thanks for taking the time to shoot those and post the crops! That's about what I'm seeing with the ZM 35/2 I have on loan.

Some more from Toronto:

50 Lux ASPH:



























tulaev wrote:
http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1634/compact-leica-m-bruit-electronique-12.html


I think it looks OK. over at the.me there is an ISO test range by Dr. Rohde along with access to an ISO 6400 D600 file from him at the same location posted in a thread on LUF. Comparing the two cameras at ISO 5000/6400, there isn't a huge difference. Where there is, it's in slightly higher chrome noise from the M. While the M does become fairly grainy at that ISO, my opinion is it's attractive grain (other than hints of banding from his preproduction camera). Having used the RX1 in some low light situations, with in-camera NR turned off, it's also fairly grainy feeling. Bottom line is I have yet to see terrible high ISO performance from the M, but then, I'm fairly tolerant of luminance noise. One thing they comment on in that article that I've observed while shooting the M9 and RX1 side by side, is that the RX1 does appear to be somewhat brighter when the same ISO, shutter speed and aperture are set. In the first samples I posted, I would say on average I had to push the M9 files about a half stop in post and pull back the RX1 slightly to get a close match.



Mar 11, 2013 at 07:32 PM
redisburning
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p.661 #2 · p.661 #2 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
I wouldn't shoot landscapes with the Biogon wide open, but there are no reasons whatsoever not to shoot it at f/2.8.


well it's not exactly the best the biogon can do but honestly that's better than many of the slr lenses I've personally owned ever got. I assume that your landscape shooting, like my rare forays, is going to give us situations where we can shoot at whatever aperture we want.

Edward, is the biogon actually optimized for infinity? Im curious how much sharpness drop off there is as you come in closer to more normal RF working distances.



Mar 11, 2013 at 07:57 PM
zhangyue
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p.661 #3 · p.661 #3 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Andrew, nice set. I like #1, #5 the most.
Ron, Fantastic BW image.
Ryan, now I know you are that Dad with Leica M and 50 noct I ran into all the time at tech museum Nice portraits as always.

Here are some everyday shots I think I never post.

M3 with 50lux WO

Sister's Dancing class






M9 with 50cron rigid at Wuzhen






35cron at Qingdao f2.8







Mar 11, 2013 at 08:30 PM
rscheffler
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p.661 #4 · p.661 #4 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Luka (denoir) seemed to feel the ZM 35/2 was one of the best landscape 35mm lenses available for the M mount, stopped down to around f/4-5.6. The impression seems to be it's infinity optimized, but I'm not sure if that's based on actual statements from Zeiss, or simply from forum discussions.

Michael - great set! Amazing colours in the last one.

On another tangent, over on LUF someone posted a couple comparison DNGs from the M9 vs. the M. I found the results interesting for a couple reasons... First of all, the differences in the look of each file/camera are not that big, especially after equalizing overall WB and tint. This will upset some who want the M to be substantially 'better' than the M9 and will be another argument against needing to upgrade. But looking closer, there are some slight differences in how fine details are shown, which seems to boil down to the additional resolution of the M's sensor. In the crops below, you can see that the M9 creates a lot of false details, especially in the roof tiles crop. In the very small crop, you can see the difference in the vertical bank of windows, that I assume is correctly rendered in the M version. Also a lot more false colour and colour moire in the crop with the tree branches and shutters. Also, the crops were from the files viewed at 200% to make the differences more obvious. Likely once in print, the differences shouldn't be as dramatic.

For the comparison crops I resized the M file down to the M9's dimensions. Other than WB and tint adjustments to get them close, all other LR settings were the same, which implies to me it should be relatively easy to match up the two cameras in post for a unified look. But we'll need more samples to see how the two compare for skin tones, where I think there might be more differences.

M on the left side:


















Mar 11, 2013 at 08:33 PM
zhangyue
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p.661 #5 · p.661 #5 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Ron, interesting about Sharpness observation.

I feel the difference especially for color are less noticeable at normal light condition. And less noticeable for people with good/restricted color work flaw, or do color tweaking PP for individual image. But for most people, this color/contrast or I should say whole file difference will start to be obvious once shooting thousands of frames over all kinds of lighting condition.

From my experience, shooting the same scene with D700 and M9 at day light (during several Lens test I did for myself), I can match their output close enough to not be able to tell. But in everyday shooting under all lighting condition, unless you try to matching Canikon file purposely, I can feel the difference instantly, especially skin tone. I never say I prefer Leica M9's file/color over Nikon D700's, might be other way around at some cases, but I never deny there is a difference. M9's file characteristic can been seen from this thread and all other online forum. The less PP in picture, the more obvious it can be seen. The color/clarity/contrast profile is very different to Canikon's file from what I see and deal with.

Though, I don't know it is from CCD or just this M9's embedded profile. But closer to film characteristic is there.

I feel this kind of A/B test will not lead us to truth. I am waiting to see more images to join my conclusion. but for now, difference is there.

To be clear, I don't even have a preference yet before seen more M works showing up.




Mar 11, 2013 at 08:58 PM
Taylor Sherman
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p.661 #6 · p.661 #6 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


That's a great comparison! On the M9, the pixel-level aliasing is creating completely false patterns on the rooftops like you point out. It's like the tiles are infected and growing alternate geometry!

In the M, the pixel-pitch is fine enough that aliasing occurs only at the sensel-level, and then there is resultant aliasing in the Bayer process and you just get moire, but no false luminosity detail.




Mar 11, 2013 at 09:59 PM
dalegaspi
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p.661 #7 · p.661 #7 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Re: comparison between M and M9

Wow...I was expecting a tad more improvement in resolution on the M...and that warm tint on the M is just really bothering me a bit...

...not kidding myself, though...I'm sure I'll succumb to the M one day... but I think I'll buy a MM first...or my wife kill me first...



Mar 11, 2013 at 10:04 PM
dalegaspi
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p.661 #8 · p.661 #8 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


rscheffler wrote:
90 Summarit (I liked the starburst )
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fmm9/20130206/20130206_0266.jpg


I really like that first shot...reminds me of one of my M8 shots of the Guggenheim...


guggenheim-01 by Dexter Legaspi, on Flickr



Mar 11, 2013 at 10:09 PM
rscheffler
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p.661 #9 · p.661 #9 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Dexter, thanks. I really like the starburst quality I can provoke from all of my rangefinder lenses vs. what I've gotten from my SLR lenses.

Regarding the color difference between the M and M9, there are a couple things to keep in mind: First, I processed these with LR 4.3 which doesn't have an M240 profile. The beta of 4.4 does and in the comparison images I've seen posted from it and LR 4.3, it appears the M240 profile somewhat reduces yellow saturation and slightly changes the hue characteristics. If you head to that LUF thread, the OP stated both cameras were set to daylight WB manually. In LR, the M9 file reported a WB value of around 4500K, whereas the M was at 5050. I found to equalize the two, I had to set the M9 around 5400 (and it's still a touch cooler) and the M at 5000. There are definitely differences in the way the cameras interpret WB and tint.

Michael: My feeling is the image characteristic differences we're going to see between the M and M9 and vs. Canikon are less to do with CMOS vs. CCD than how each manufacturer prefers to tweak the look of the files. Leica definitely leans towards a higher contrast, more film-like rendition than the flatter SOOC tones of most of the Japanese brands (perhaps Fuji and Olympus are exceptions). Wider dynamic range will also be an influence. I'm also looking forward to seeing more M images with skin tone.



Mar 11, 2013 at 10:39 PM
charles.K
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p.661 #10 · p.661 #10 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Edward, very nice examples with the ZM 35/2, and excellent sharpness and detail
Ryan, very neat shots from the Science center!
Ron, the first shots are superb, in design and composition Excellent side by side comparisons with the M9/M240 files. What I think I will enjoy most about the M240 IQ, is the richness of color and the ability to have about another 1 1/2 stops over the M9. I have always loved the Oly and Fuji colors, and I feel this is where the M240 will be once they have finalized the color profiles!
Michael, wonderful shots of your family! #2 is a beautiful pensive portrait



Mar 12, 2013 at 02:02 AM
 

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zhangyue
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p.661 #11 · p.661 #11 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Ron, I am kind of lazy that haven't download any M file play by myself yet. I am just draw some conclusion based what I see so far from web. I think you might be right about manufacture profile difference instead of CCD. but I get similar feeling of M9 file when I browse MF digital picture thread. I will see with more M240 coming.

Charles, Thanks for your kind comments.

Here are few from Qingdao with 35cron V1.































in case you have doubt about this 40 year old lens see 100% from last image. I thought that was a spot on sensor then figure out is a airplane I could not see by eyes.








Mar 12, 2013 at 07:22 AM
ryankarr
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p.661 #12 · p.661 #12 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Thanks for the comments zhangyue, edward and charles!

zhangyue, you should post more of your day to day shots. You're beach series with the 21mm a few months back was fantastic and your kids are very photogenic.

Quick question for Ron/Andrew or anyone who has used a 75mm Summilux, what's the focus ring feel like? Would it be similar stiffness to a 90mm summicron?



Mar 12, 2013 at 03:18 PM
rscheffler
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p.661 #13 · p.661 #13 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Michael, yes, I've often found airplanes in my images this way. I like the first and last.

Ryan, Charles could answer that question. I've only used the 75 Lux once during the meeting with Andrew and I thought the focusing ring feel was very good. It was nicely dampened and smooth without being too light. The focus throw is also suitably long for such a lens where focus precision is required. I believe one complaint many have with the 90AA is the focus throw is too fast?

And coincidentally, here are a couple random Toronto shots with the 75 Lux stopped down:












90 Summarit:







Mar 12, 2013 at 03:49 PM
ryankarr
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p.661 #14 · p.661 #14 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Thanks Ron that helps. I like the focus throw feel on my 90AA, but it could be because I use it side by side the Nocilux, which is quite stiff. It would be nice if it was a little longer of a throw as it is pretty touchy.

I think the 75 lux is officially on my 2014 wish list. The shorter MFD and speed is very appealing, as are all the wonderful photos in this thread.



Mar 12, 2013 at 04:16 PM
Toothwalker
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p.661 #15 · p.661 #15 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Taylor Sherman wrote:
That's a great comparison! On the M9, the pixel-level aliasing is creating completely false patterns on the rooftops like you point out. It's like the tiles are infected and growing alternate geometry!

In the M, the pixel-pitch is fine enough that aliasing occurs only at the sensel-level, and then there is resultant aliasing in the Bayer process and you just get moire, but no false luminosity detail.


The M is a little less objectionable, but I prefer any camera with a decent AA filter in place.





Mar 12, 2013 at 05:23 PM
rscheffler
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p.661 #16 · p.661 #16 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Take a look at this post on LUF where the conversions were made with C1 instead and the M9 doesn't look nearly as bad as with LR 4.3. FWIW, I also tried it with RPP and it looked similar to LR (a couple posts farther down in that thread).


Mar 12, 2013 at 05:40 PM
zhangyue
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p.661 #17 · p.661 #17 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Toothwalker wrote:
The M is a little less objectionable, but I prefer any camera with a decent AA filter in place.



I doubt if leica want to do that or just have to do that for good enough performance at corner. But it gives another what Leica need badly: Niche.



Mar 12, 2013 at 05:58 PM
zhangyue
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p.661 #18 · p.661 #18 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


rscheffler wrote:
Take a look at this post on LUF where the conversions were made with C1 instead and the M9 doesn't look nearly as bad as with LR 4.3. FWIW, I also tried it with RPP and it looked similar to LR (a couple posts farther down in that thread).


In his version, I definitely prefer M9's output. it seems has better sharpness per pixel. (hopefully, I put it right for what I mean) His M240 file looks over sharpened.

Leica M9's file has crisp look I don't see in my D700 or even D800E.(in this case M240) But I guess I need work on my sharpening skill



Mar 12, 2013 at 06:07 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.661 #19 · p.661 #19 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


More great work everyone

Ryan grrrrrrreat captures of the cute little boy...
Ron #2 above TERRIFIC....
Z....love the shots from sisters dancing class

I haven't shot anything lately for myself. Busy shooting for work. Been busy mounting, matting and framing and I'm so sick of it.....

Had lunch with a good bud today and I took this.
I think this illustrates the range of the MM . Very fast edit.




Mar 12, 2013 at 08:04 PM
charles.K
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p.661 #20 · p.661 #20 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Ryan, my 75 Lux's calibration is now spot on, and is one of last ones from Germany. IMO it has the best focus throw of any lenses I have had to date. For this reason alone, when shooting portraits, I will take out the 75 Lux over the 90 Cron AA. Purely ergonomics and MFD, and you have the ability frame near portraits identical to the 90 Cron AA.

Michael, wonderful color palette to your shots!
Ron, very nice shots with the 75 Lux compared to the 90 Summarit! I find your comparisons with the M and M9 very interesting! I still have C1 Pro, and have used it exclusively for the M9 files, until LR4 came out. Looking at some of the results I may still it for PP'ing the M9 files!!
Allen, excellent portrait I think the M-M will be around for along time to come, as no camera will achieve quite the same look. I do hope they come out with profiles for the M-M as this will extend PP'ing ability of the DNG files!!

A shot from the archives with the 75 Lux, even at f/5.6, it is important to have the calibration accurate at near, mid and far. ( PP'd with C1 Pro)









Edited on Mar 13, 2013 at 02:27 AM · View previous versions



Mar 13, 2013 at 12:31 AM
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