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Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

joakim
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p.626 #1 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

This thread has really moved fast in the last couple of days!

Thanks for the comments guys.

From p 623 and onward:
Jonas, great way to capture the cold.
Edward, I like the (yellow) set with the ZM 18/4. I also prefer the colors in the first portrait
Ash, I like the last one from the desert.
Ryan, great capture (p623) and also very nice set with the Ferrari.
Charles, nice portrait
Douglas, interesting rendering with the 50 cron. Makes me want to try out some old lenses myself.
Ryan, I like your street set.
wstam, I like the first one from the restaurant in Melbourne
Michael, great mood in the b&w photo (Kite)
Joe, very nice film photos. The last one in the last set is my favorite
Edwin, great set with the 75 Lux.

Jan 23, 2013 at 07:06 PM

joakim
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p.626 #2 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Mistified with 50 Lux.

2013 © joakim

Jan 23, 2013 at 07:07 PM

zhangyue
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p.626 #3 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

edwardkaraa wrote:
I have thought that I've settled the problem of Adobe standard vs. embedded camera profiles, having chosen embedded as Leica's own enterpretation of how the colors should look like. But lately I discovered Adobe standard gives bluer skies, but more yellowish skin tones, and somewhat screws up the purple color making it bluish. I am bit hesitant now, as I usually like to adopt one profile, as I don't like too many choices. Here's an example of bluish sky and yellowish skin. What do you think guys?

Edward, I usually use a profile I download from corner fix website. I got that link from Overggard review of M9. I feel it almost like embedded one with slightly tweak on orange/red hue.

I have complain about Leica color for a while. sometime it is great, sometime it is not. it is not as stable as canikon Color dealing with difficult lighting condition. Simple WB correction won't make it. The problem is a simple profile won't make as well. The color spectrume/hue change with exposure and lighting. It has a lot more impact than Canikon system.

If you just try to deal with sky, that is easy, you can simply turn down lumi of blue and turn up/down saturation at LR4 as your will. Skin tone is difficult, you need play with Yellow, Orange, Red, saturation and Luminance, and some time hue as well.

So, That is why I feel hesitate to recommend M to any people who asking me which system should get even those with cash. I think Luka mentioned that at the beginning he got the camera. I had to PM Ron complain about it when I first got it. He might be able to give you some suggestion on this.

I just have to learn to deal with it since I like the system so much.

Jan 23, 2013 at 07:09 PM

carstenw
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p.626 #4 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Great, moody shots, Joakim!

Jan 23, 2013 at 07:12 PM

joe88
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p.626 #5 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Thanks Joakim. Excellent set with the boat and ship! #2 and #3 are my favorites, really nice.

Jan 23, 2013 at 07:21 PM

douglasf13
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p.626 #6 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

zhangyue wrote:
edwardkaraa wrote:
I have thought that I've settled the problem of Adobe standard vs. embedded camera profiles, having chosen embedded as Leica's own enterpretation of how the colors should look like. But lately I discovered Adobe standard gives bluer skies, but more yellowish skin tones, and somewhat screws up the purple color making it bluish. I am bit hesitant now, as I usually like to adopt one profile, as I don't like too many choices. Here's an example of bluish sky and yellowish skin. What do you think guys?

Edward, I usually use a profile I download from corner fix website. I got that link from Overggard review of M9. I feel it almost like embedded one with slightly tweak on orange/red hue.

I have complain about Leica color for a while. sometime it is great, sometime it is not. it is not as stable as canikon Color dealing with difficult lighting condition. Simple WB correction won't make it. The problem is a simple profile won't make as well. The color spectrume/hue change with exposure and lighting. It has a lot more impact than Canikon system.

If you just try to deal with sky, that is easy, you can simply turn down lumi of blue and turn up/down saturation at LR4 as your will. Skin tone is difficult, you need play with Yellow, Orange, Red, saturation and Luminance, and some time hue as well.

So, That is why I feel hesitate to recommend M to any people who asking me which system should get even those with cash. I think Luka mentioned that at the beginning he got the camera. I had to PM Ron complain about it when I first got it. He might be able to give you some suggestion on this.

I just have to learn to deal with it since I like the system so much.

I've found a group of color settings (used with the Adobe Standard Profile) that I like, but I'm still getting used to the blotchiness that can show up, especially in skin tones under artificial light. Adjusting WB is super important with this camera, in that case, because sometimes even just a little tweak makes the blotches go away. This camera is interesting in how it handles color.

Jan 23, 2013 at 07:45 PM

joakim
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p.626 #7 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Thanks Carsten and Joe.

Jan 23, 2013 at 09:26 PM

charles.K
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p.626 #8 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Thanks Joakim

Jabberwockt, cool graffiti shot!
Edward, nice portrait shot! I prefer skin tone in #1, but #2 is more rich in film like color. Depending whether the accent is with portraits or scenery, I do tend to adjust the colors both in WB and the color profile tab. I have always found the WB with the M9 to be somewhat off, so it really depends on the feel you wish to portray.
Joe, excellent film set again!
Joakim, wonderful misty shots!

Jan 24, 2013 at 12:58 AM

Gary Clennan
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p.626 #9 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

First and third are very nice Joakim. Great mood!

Jan 24, 2013 at 01:31 AM

michael49
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p.626 #10 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

joe88 wrote:
Ektar 100 and M6 TTL. Thunder Hole Acadia. I can't remember which lens, either 35Lux ASPH or 50Lux ASPH
....

Nice. I need to get back to Acadia this year.

I don't care what they say - you just can't emulate film with digital - love the colors and tones here.

Jan 24, 2013 at 01:40 AM

joe88
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p.626 #11 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Thanks Charles & Michael.

Jan 24, 2013 at 02:52 AM

Jabberwockt
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p.626 #12 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Nice atmospheric shots of the boat. The film shots also are quite interesting .

I'm still struggling a bit with the M9's colors but as an additional data point, I've found that the colors when processed through Lightroom using both the Embedded and the Adobe Standard profile to be a slight bit different than what a custom profile built with a Colorchecker would produce. I tried making an animated GIF but failed, but if you open each in a separate tab in your browser and flip through these, you can see the colors change slightly, even after having been converted to sRGB.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Larger

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Edited on Jan 24, 2013 at 05:27 AM · View previous versions

Jan 24, 2013 at 04:39 AM

charles.K
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p.626 #13 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Jabberwockt, initially I had made profiles for the M9, for different lighting scenarios with the X-Rite, and even then found the skin tones did not look natural with the X Rite profiles. In the end, I chose the profiles that suited my style and how I felt the perceived image should look. Maybe the Adobe standard for portraits, tweaked, or landscapes the embedded maybe better. This is very subjective of course, and depends whether you like the film like look, or prefer a more muted, pastel color and with higher contrast. There is no correct profile, except the one that emulates the look you wish to present.

Edited on Jan 24, 2013 at 06:34 AM · View previous versions

Jan 24, 2013 at 04:45 AM

Jabberwockt
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p.626 #14 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Charles, that's really informative, but that probably means back to square one for me

I was really hoping this would solve my color peeves.

At this rate i may start carrying the colorchecker with me.

Jan 24, 2013 at 04:48 AM

charles.K
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p.626 #15 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Jabberwockt, not really back to square one, but just have a consistent color managed workflow. Your style of profile may have a unique look, and something you then maintain that look for most of your work. Sometimes the correct profile, is not the most appealing

I still keep a color checker in my bag where the lighting is difficult and mixed.

Jan 24, 2013 at 06:31 AM

zhangyue
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p.626 #16 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

charles.K wrote:
In the end, I chose the profiles that suited my style and how I felt the perceived image should look.
+1, there is no right color or wrong color. Just how you want it to be. Unless we are talking about in studio, everything under control. I don't think ultimate fidelity is the goal and don't feel Canikon will be more accurate but might be more pleasing sometime, especially for skin tone. Leica M9's file is most film like I feel compare to any other Digital file in the market.

So, Andy, I won't worry absolute accuracy as a must. But consistence is difficult to achieve as M9's color can be all over the place, which require your attention.

Sometime, I feel I just so used to my D700's clean, pleasing file, which is not necessary better but with some expectation for M9 in my mind. Anyhow, I feel Leica's DNG require a lot work than my Nikon to get what I want.

Joe, your film set is wonderful. I love those color. I need start shoot my M3 again

Joakim, very nice set. I especially like the first one.

Here are two from Hang zhou.

Xihu
21biogon

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Xihu
35cron 8 Element

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Jan 24, 2013 at 07:44 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.626 #17 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Thank you Joe, Joakim, Charles, Zhangyue, Douglas for your comments.

Very nice shots from Joe, Joakim, Zhangyue.

Yes, definitely there is no correct answer in regards to color. It is so subjective. I myself prefer simple solutions, so tend to stick with one profile.

I mostly prefer the embedded M9 one, even though it is more tricky to get the right WB. I often find it nicely saturated and with a look reminiscent of color slide film (which is no surprise knowing that Leica emulated the Kodachrome look with its sensor toppings and demosaicing algorithms).

Very often, I find Adobe standard profile to be somewhat more pleasing, but more digital to my eyes. The skin tones, the saturated blues, and the flat mid-tone curve are imo very digital, and not very different from other cameras using the same profile. In fact the Adobe standard tries to make all cameras look alike, so it is sort of an equalizer.

The biggest advantage that I find with the Adobe standard is its superior demosaicing algorithms in colored light sources like car break lights or neon signs. Also under some difficult lighting conditions the embedded profile goes berserk while the Adobe standard produces normal looking results.

I have received very often positive comments about my photos as having film like colors. In fact, most have received very little to no PP, just choosing the esthetically most suitable WB with the embedded profile.

I am a person who doesn't like multiple choices. I wish we had only one profile to deal with

Jan 24, 2013 at 09:05 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.626 #18 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

Jabberwockt wrote:

I'm still struggling a bit with the M9's colors but as an additional data point, I've found that the colors when processed through Lightroom using both the Embedded and the Adobe Standard profile to be a slight bit different than what a custom profile built with a Colorchecker would produce. I tried making an animated GIF but failed, but if you open each in a separate tab in your browser and flip through these, you can see the colors change slightly, even after having been converted to sRGB.

Comparing the embedded and adobe standard shots, they correspond exactly to my own findings. Adobe is more pleasing but less natural. For example:

Blues and greens are lighter with embedded, darker and more saturated with adobe.
Purples are very unnatural with adobe, too dark.
Reds are pinkish with embedded, and more natural with adobe (slightly too warm).
Orange is darker and warmer with embedded, while yellow is darker and warmer with adobe.

Based on the above, the adobe produces darker more staturated blue skies and green plants. Purer reds, and more natural skin tones (though too yellowish to my taste). Embedded produces healthier skin tones (good for Asians and Africans, but not that good for Caucasians), lighter blue skies and green plants. It has a more contrasty tone curve.

Which one is better, I haven't got a clue

Jan 24, 2013 at 09:18 AM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.626 #19 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

joe88 wrote:
Thanks Michael & Charles. Film can be fun for the experience but I think at least for 35mm format, we have moved on to digital. Medium and large format is another story for now.

I might have posted this comparison back when I took these pics in 2011, but here we can compare the highlight roll off on a similar scene. First shot, my M6 with Ektar 100 (35mm lens) and below that, M9 with 28Cron. You can see the difference in the highlight retention. Digital sensors will keep improving and I hope soon enough we can have sensors with much better DR or at least some way to control the highlight signal amplification and retention?

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nice and simple comparison. thanks.

Jan 24, 2013 at 10:12 AM

douglasf13
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p.626 #20 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread

ken.vs.ryu wrote:

nice and simple comparison. thanks.

The problem with this comparison is that the digital version has the highlights blown out. A comparison where the highlights weren't blown out, and the shadows were brought up in post, would be a more telling comparison. That's especially true with an "ISO-less" camera like the M9.

Jan 24, 2013 at 04:23 PM

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