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Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread
  
 
rscheffler
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p.613 #1 · p.613 #1 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Hey guys, haven't had much in the queue to contribute lately... Lots of great stuff from everyone else though!

I got ahold of a loaner RX1 for a few days, along with a ZM 35/2 and plan to run a bit of a comparison between the two. I will also throw in the ZM35C and the CV35/1.2 II on the M9. Unfortunately I don't have any Leica M series 35mm lenses and Andrew isn't currently available to offer his vast inventory.

For the time being, here are a few snaps around the house just before it got dark. Sorry, these are handheld, so framing is only approximately similar and focus might be slightly different as well:

Tell me which is which. I'll make it easy for you with the first one!













































After only a few images, my initial impression is RX1's Sonnar is it's slightly wider and definitely sharper wide open at very near distances where the ZM has a fair amount of SA. Distortion though is worse from the Sonnar:












The ZM feels like it has better background blur, or shallower depth of field. Not sure if some of it is due to slight focus mismatches though, as the ZM appears to slightly front focus on my M9. The Sonnar though has calmer background blur and a feeling of more roundness and form to out of focus objects.

Also just an FYI that the files have had minimum PP in LR. Primarily WB adjustment to get each set fairly close. Some might also have minor exposure and/or curves adjustments. No clarity, saturation, etc.



Mar 09, 2013 at 05:16 AM
sebboh
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p.613 #2 · p.613 #2 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


rscheffler wrote:
Hey guys, haven't had much in the queue to contribute lately... Lots of great stuff from everyone else though!

I got ahold of a loaner RX1 for a few days, along with a ZM 35/2 and plan to run a bit of a comparison between the two. I will also throw in the ZM35C and the CV35/1.2 II on the M9. Unfortunately I don't have any Leica M series 35mm lenses and Andrew isn't currently available to offer his vast inventory.

For the time being, here are a few snaps around the house just before it got dark. Sorry, these are
...Show more

the first one (which i'm assuming is the zm) has terrible bokeh in these close up shots. for these types of shots i definitely prefer the second camera/lens. i await the landscape test where i expect things to be reversed (though whether that will be noticeable at internet sizes remains to be seen.



Mar 09, 2013 at 06:11 AM
philip_pj
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p.613 #3 · p.613 #3 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Ron, you could save me a lot of $$ if the 2nd one is not the RX1.

Some of the preference for the 2nd image in each set is down to greater colour control, realism and presence. See the trolley wheel in the last lot, top one is lost to strong blue hues and almost looks painted, the bottom one has that real world gun metal blue with lots of transitions corresponding with tonal changes. You can even see the depth showing behind the wheel and in the brickwork, but not in the first. The green shed is another example, the step rail, etc.

A lot of what is seen here looks to be camera processing rather than lens character. I could not live with the frenzied, segmented, contrasty bokeh and crude colours of the first in the set. The brickwork mortar bokeh looks like it is becoming detached from the wall. The other one looks very Sonnar to me, integrated bokeh uninterrupted by sharp edges. Even has better tonal separation inside the bokeh. And thanks so much for these...

Would enjoy any others you can post, at say f5.6 over short to medium distances.




Mar 09, 2013 at 06:55 AM
rscheffler
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p.613 #4 · p.613 #4 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Derek and Philip, yes, the second is the RX1. FWIW, I don't mind the bokeh of the ZM much of the time and as you can see in the stairs and car shots, it really depends on what's in the frame. Sometimes the differences are rather subtle. And when it's subtle, I sometimes prefer the stronger edges of the Biogon. But if I had to choose one of the two, I'd go for the Sonnar, just as I would probably pick the 50 Lux ASPH as my only 50mm, if I could have only one.

While the M9's sensor and colour handling likely isn't as great as the Sony's sensor, I'm not yet convinced the difference you see in the brickwork of the last set is not due more to the lens. The Sonnar seems to have better contrast and retention of shape, especially at close distances. The Biogon has a lot of SA at this distance, which affects the overall look. This image might not be a good comparison of sharpness because the ZM is probably slightly front focused, whereas the RX1 nailed the water nozzle.

I plan to do some proper on-tripod testing over the next couple days at various distances and through most of the aperture range. I'll write it up on my blog with links to full-rez files, just as I did with the 21mm lens comparison. There are a few other shots I didn't even bother posting because at web-rez the subtleties between each camera/lens was mostly lost after downsizing.



Mar 09, 2013 at 07:20 AM
zhangyue
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p.613 #5 · p.613 #5 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Ron, This is easy, the first one is Biogon, those Bokeh are signature of Biogon and a bunch of Leica Summicrons' especially close to corner. Hope I don't get burned! I look forward to see more from you. I am not surprised you will find RX1 has very good 35mm there. But, last week, I handle it again at sony store and really can't love it any how. I want to see how you like/dislike it in addition to IQ. But I also handled A99 and RX100, NEX7, NEX6. A99 is a ugly camera and really missed NEX7 after handle one again. I will see how NEX7n going before go to FUJI side.


Edward, Very nice set. Look that cat eyes. The first portrait also nice.
Airfrog, you captured te moment.
Andy, the 2nd one is really nice.

Here are a bunch get inspired by street spirit of this thread. from FL St, Augustine.


























Edit: Ron, you answer too quickly. I am not cheating, we post it at the same time or I am writing at the time you post.



Mar 09, 2013 at 07:31 AM
philip_pj
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p.613 #6 · p.613 #6 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Ron, I know nothing of the ZM range, am totally ignorant, but residual SA is maybe intended for other subject matter? I took a look at the Biogon's chart, it is obviously superb.

That first shot is a tough test. Oh, a water nozzle, I wondered what it was.

I am becoming a little irrational about the RX1, I want one because it just seems to make fine images much of the time, in a lot of different hands. I am always looking for an edge, after doing this a long time. It's not perfect, I am not keen on the bolt on EVF. See if you can find its weaknesses for us ;-) And any comments from experienced shooters are always of interest, look forward to your review.

It is better close up and at short distances - MFD-20m say - but no one has yet done a decent comparo with other high end lenses for much different distances and apertures. From the RX1 MTF chart (computed but still indicative), it ought to be killer at f8 at its ideal focal distance at least.



Mar 09, 2013 at 07:56 AM
sebboh
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p.613 #7 · p.613 #7 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


philip_pj wrote:
Ron, I know nothing of the ZM range, am totally ignorant, but residual SA is maybe intended for other subject matter? I took a look at the Biogon's chart, it is obviously superb.


superb in resolution at infinity. i've rarely seen any non-landscape shots with it that i enjoyed the rendering of. i sincerely doubt it was one of the zeiss lenses designed for pleasing portraits.




Mar 09, 2013 at 08:09 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.613 #8 · p.613 #8 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Zhangyue, Allen, thank you for the comments!

Allen, that's a nice shot with Attitude!
Zhangyue, beautiful street shots. What lens?
Ron, thank you very much for the comparison. I think the ZM is front focusing as you say. Mine does that too, and I believe it is usually calibrated for 2.8 as it has a minimal but clear focus shift. I usually shoot it slightly back focused at f/2. This said, except for the first shot, I prefer the ZM rendering. The first shot is the worst case scenario of ugly bokeh. I have seen similar photos before and I avoid shooting this way.



Mar 09, 2013 at 08:11 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.613 #9 · p.613 #9 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


sebboh wrote:
superb in resolution at infinity. i've rarely seen any non-landscape shots with it that i enjoyed the rendering of. i sincerely doubt it was one of the zeiss lenses designed for pleasing portraits.



I somewhat agree with the above, with some reservations. I believe the Biogon is designed for excellent performance at infinity, and as a very sharp reportage lens, with an extended DOF and well defined bokeh. It definitely is not designed for pleasing portraits. The Planar 50 and especially the C-Sonnar are much better in this respect.

A few old Biogon shots to illustrate my point:


M9 + ZM 35/2 Biogon by edward karaa, on Flickr


M9 + ZM 35/2 Biogon by edward karaa, on Flickr


M9 + ZM 35/2 Biogon by edward karaa, on Flickr


M9 + ZM 35/2 Biogon by edward karaa, on Flickr



Mar 09, 2013 at 08:26 AM
joakim
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p.613 #10 · p.613 #10 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Edward, I like the b&w set with the Sonnar and the second one is a favorite where the cat in the corner really makes the photo for me. Also good examples of what the Biogon can do.
Allen, great framing in the photo of the two women in the café.
Michael, I like the last one from St Augustine.



Mar 09, 2013 at 11:03 AM
 

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ct8282
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p.613 #11 · p.613 #11 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread




http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8383/8467881779_784a5cfdbf_b.jpg
M9 + ZM 35/2 Biogon by edward karaa, on Flickr



Great image



Mar 09, 2013 at 11:20 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.613 #12 · p.613 #12 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thank you Joakim and ct8282!


Mar 09, 2013 at 11:36 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.613 #13 · p.613 #13 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Edward - I also like that second last shot too. Cooler colors which really add to the photo.

Ron - many thanks for doing this testing, it is much appreciated. I will be interested to see the results...



Mar 09, 2013 at 05:28 PM
sebboh
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p.613 #14 · p.613 #14 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


ct8282 wrote:
Great image


+1

that was one of my favorites from that street series.



Mar 09, 2013 at 05:37 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.613 #15 · p.613 #15 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thank you very much Gary and Sebboh. Greatly appreciate your kind words.


Mar 09, 2013 at 05:41 PM
carstenw
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p.613 #16 · p.613 #16 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Yes, great shot!


Mar 09, 2013 at 05:58 PM
redisburning
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p.613 #17 · p.613 #17 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


+1 on that shot Edward.

as far as the 35/2 ZM Biogon goes, I like the bokeh. Nervous/sketchy OoF is my cup of tea though; I <3 tessars and several other lenses other people think have terrible OoF rendition. the RX-1 looks fantastic though! back to the biogon; optimized for mid aperture and mid distance definitely sounds like the typical ZM characteristic. they do make great general purpose lenses for this reason.



Mar 09, 2013 at 06:12 PM
rscheffler
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p.613 #18 · p.613 #18 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thanks guys. I'll try to be as definitive as possible. But that will likely have to wait a few weeks until I can get the RX1 back and also find a time in Andrew's busy schedule for a meet-up. In the meantime, I'll do my best with the 3 35s I have on-hand.

Michael - I believe you! Interesting variety from the streets of St. Augustine.

Edward - very nice examples from the 35/2. I agree with your summary. Unless someone's looking for specific rendering characteristics, the ZM is going to be a good all around lens, just as pretty much any decent lens nowadays. It's just us here on these boards splitting hairs that probably notice these subtleties.

Philip - the RX1 is a pretty impressive package. It's not perfect and suffers from a bit of the NEX UI of somewhat cramped controls. I realize Sony was going for as small a package as possible, but if they'd have made it 1cm longer and taller, with a better thumb rest, it would fit my hands much more comfortably. IMO, the M camera size is about the perfect proportion because I can rest all of my righthand fingers on the body. None slip off the bottom, etc. The only thing Leica needs to do for future digital Ms is make them thinner. Might be difficult though due to the sensor package thickness. Instead of typing this I should be out shooting right now but we'll see how the Sonnar lens fares at various distances. After only about 20 shots yesterday, some inside at quite close distances, my feeling is the lens has a very clear and well rounded rendering at such ranges. If you're primarily a 35mm lens shooter, this could be a very difficult camera to resist, primarily because of the Sonnar lens.

I forgot I do have some recent M9 images to contribute. Last Saturday my longtime friend Rob Skeoch of the Rangefinder Store hosted a photographers' meet-up at his store/studio. Rob also runs Big Camera Workshops, an online shop dedicated to larger formats and B&W materials, and I think most of those attending were more from the large format side. Some interesting images were shared and I did the following with the 21 Lux, other than the first one with the 28 Cron:

An RX1 in action:





That's Rob on the right flipping through photos:






One attendee brought a Widelux:
















Showing and discussing photos:






Tim, the guy in the gray sweater at right, brought these interesting prints:











From a bit of a distance, you'd think they're photos of moons and planets, but instead they're fossils in rocks captured at extremely close range with a circular fisheye lens - very neat effect!

Another fellow showed photos printed on various types of expired B&W papers. The sepia photo in hand here was from 1960s paper stock and had a cool fogged quality to it:






Dominik was a late arrival with a very impressive portfolio of large Epson 4800 prints from various cameras ranging from large format B&W scans to Pentax 645D, Sigma DP2M and Panasonic GH3.






















Mar 09, 2013 at 06:22 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.613 #19 · p.613 #19 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thank you Carsten, Red, Ron for your comments.

Ron, very nice set. Amazing performance from the 21 Lux!



Mar 09, 2013 at 06:36 PM
Jabberwockt
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p.613 #20 · p.613 #20 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Ron, thanks for doing the test, look forward to seeing more results.
Edward, great photos as always, that shot with the shellfish really pops.

All with the 35mm M-Hexanon around F/2.8




Some people walk their dogs, this gentleman here was walking his pet snake


Edited on Mar 10, 2013 at 02:58 AM · View previous versions



Mar 10, 2013 at 01:49 AM
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