gurbally wrote:
Isn't a precision screen more suitable for manual focus?
That's what the S screen is, but even more precise. It's optimized for use with lenses faster than f/2.8 to accurately and clearly show the actual plane of focus. Other Canon screens are OK to about f/2.8.
rscheffler wrote:
That's what the S screen is, but even more precise. It's optimized for use with lenses faster than f/2.8 to accurately and clearly show the actual plane of focus. Other Canon screens are OK to about f/2.8.
Yeah, I agree. But my point is this: if you use only Af, not MF, does the S screen make a huge difference?
Hopefully you shot raw and can check where your AF point is registered in DPP. I am seeing areas in focus, that are not what you seemingly should be focus on. Outter points on the 5DM2 don't work too well. The bokeh also looks odder than normal.
If that doesn't work. Send the lens and body to Canon and have them check the camera for a hardware issue.
Looks like you need to get past the learnig curve with shallow DOF.
Filling the frame is extremly important, if you want to shoot from that far away you need a longer lens. Narrow DOF and landscape are not to be used in the same sentence. When the DOF gets this narrow you cant focus then recompose as you just changed the focal plane and even the slightest movement changing the distance on the focal plane will change the focal point. I find I get a higher keeper rate shooting like this by using a tripod, remote shitter release and manually choosing the focal point to be on the intended subject. 1.2 is extremely shallow, so much in fact that you can take a closer potrait shot, have the eyes in focus and the lips will be out not to mention the nose.
I don't think you understand the situation. "Keeper Rate" is inoperative. "Can I get it rate" is. Regardless of AF/MF calibration the DOF is (as you have noticed) is way too thin for reliable focus for every shot.
So shoot bursts and lean back and forth a bit or rack focus manually. No problem for the posed subjects that you have shown here. Perfect your technique. Some shots will not look good with the narrow DOF. Face and bust size close ups with one eye in focus and dreamy OOF look fine. A fully body with OOF detail not so much. And, congratulations, on using this lens at fast F stops. That is what you bought it for.
Mirek Elsner wrote:
My first copy of that lens focused well at short distances, but was unsharp at 10 yards and more. No FF, no BF, just blurry. If the sharpness drops with distance, you may have the same issue. Some of your pictures look front focused to me though. Perhaps it is time to shoot some brick walls and batteries...
That is EXACTLY what happened to mine, sharpness drops with distance. I spent couple hours having it on the tripod to test all the MA settings but the amount of OOF shots I get was simply unacceptable especially for a $2K lens, the problem persist even when I was using f/2.8~f/5.6 on subject in varies distances, no doubt in my mind it was a defective unit, pure and simple.
I shipped it back for a replacement last week, and the UPS truck delivered my new replacement this morning. This 2nd copy has a date code of UY0503, few months newer than the defective one I shipped back. I have been shooting stuff around the house and backyard earlier, so far my 2nd copy appear to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than the 1st copy, AF is bang on no matter close range or distance subject, AF accuracy and consistency is like night and day in comparison to the 1st copy. The new one also appear to be sharper wide open as well, though the only bad thing is it has slightly more CA than the defective copy, not sure why, but I'm more than happy to compromise, this 2nd copy is far superior than the 1st one, it's a keeper for sure!
rhorta wrote:
Shooting f/1.2 & f/1.4 lenses wide open doesn't involve rocket science, just a little practice and the practical experience that goes with it.
Besides, you don't have to shoot wide open all the time, regardless of what some people may think or opinionate. You what they say about opinions...
My 2c.
Ruy
Assuming the lens and camera are working properly, shooting f/1.2~1.4 should not be a problem so long as we take DOF into consideration, I bought the 85L II to use between f/1.2 to f/1.6 and that's where it will get stuck on most of the time, otherwise I would have settle with 85 1.8 that I'm familiar with, or use my 70-200 2.8 IS II instead.
rscheffler wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean here; an OOF subject must be the result of the focus being either in front of or behind the subject plane; if it were neither front focused or back focused, then it would be focused.
As for why this is happening, I suspect it has more to do with how much of the frame is filled with the subject, rather than the actual distance to the subject.
Another possibility is that you're tripping the shutter before focus has been fully achieved; the 85L has a lot of massive glass to move during focusing. That would be affected by distance, and longer distances could slow things down a bit.
My experience with the 85L (have used it for many years) is that it has some field curvature, meaning the plane of focus is not perfectly flat. It tends to focus a bit closer at the edges than the center. So if you're using the center focus point and recomposing, you might find that the middle of your photo is focused but the extremes (like where a subject's face might be) are slightly soft.
I've now gotten in the habit of using the "sports shooter's" layout with the camera in AI servo and using the AF-on button to focus as it makes the 85L more manageable. Continuous shooting is a good idea too.
It definitely helped me, but mostly for closer working distances. For full length type shots I still had trouble (could be my eyes) and find the most accurate solution is 10X live view.
There is a steep learning curve with the 85 f1.2. You can't focus and recompose at f1.2 as it will result in oof shoots. the d.o.f is toooo shallow
It's DOF, not critical point of focus. There is a difference. And as I've mentioned, the lens seems to have a bit of field curvature that could pull the plane of focus away from the subject.
Some of the original samples on the first post were cropped, I use Center AF point exclusively, outer AF from the 5D2 is too unreliable to be trusted so I don't bother with them. I use the back AF on button as well, a habit I picked up from the 1D2n I had for few years.
if the 85L have field curvature problem, it should not have completely throwing off the focus plane like more than 10ft infront or behind the subject, when stopping down to f/5.6 shooting subject at 10ft, the DOF should be large enough to cover it. Live view nailed the focus 10 out of 10 times but it's not practical to use in the field, especially on candid.
JustinThyme wrote:
Looks like you need to get past the learnig curve with shallow DOF.
Filling the frame is extremly important, if you want to shoot from that far away you need a longer lens. Narrow DOF and landscape are not to be used in the same sentence. When the DOF gets this narrow you cant focus then recompose as you just changed the focal plane and even the slightest movement changing the distance on the focal plane will change the focal point. I find I get a higher keeper rate shooting like this by using a tripod, remote shitter release and manually choosing the focal point to be on the intended subject. 1.2 is extremely shallow, so much in fact that you can take a closer potrait shot, have the eyes in focus and the lips will be out not to mention the nose....Show more →
85L II does not have the most shallow DOF nor does it has a steep learning curve like most people made it out to be. It has 0.02ft of total DOF on subject at 3ft @f/1.2, which is the same DOF as 200mm @f/2.8 at 4ft from the 70-200 2.8 IS II (see DOF calculator). Yes the AF is a tard slow compare to other lens but it's by design to operate that way, the total mass of the glass elements in the 85L aren't any worst than some long primes like the 400 2.8 or 500 4 IS, but those long primes have blazing fast AF speed. Now that I know my 2nd copy is functioning the way it should be....I am not convince the 85L is any more difficult to use than the 85 1.8 or any other primes at all (except a few like the 50L that has focus shift issue).
It made me wonder how many people out there being discouraged from using the 85L not knowing that they had a defective copy, only to be told that they need to wax up their photography skill and how this lens has steep learning curve... lol
The best place for a lens like this is utilizing window light, try being in a room with one window, at your back, & try shooting portraits like that, you will be amazed @ f1.2 soft & dreamy keep shutter to 250th if you can or 125th @ a pinch.
Mine should arrive this week sweet.
It is a crime to shoot in harsh full sun like that unless you know what you are doing!
I don't have this lens nor have I ever used one. I really don't think that you can incriminate the first lens, however, unless you tested it without the circular polarizer attached.
This is mainly due to low contrast (not shallow DOF ) at 1.2 so the AF sensor can't decide. This is another reason why most of lens maker choose to make 1.4 lens instead. The only other 85mm 1.2 out there would be the $6000 Zeiss 85mm 1.2 50th and 60th year anniversary collector's edition lens. It will beat the Canon but it comes with its price tag.
yauyi wrote:
this lens does exhibit front focus in close up so I dialed in +8~15 MA to compensate, I understand the deep learning curve from the f/1.2L and willing to accept the slow AF and super thin DOF, just that I did not expect I would have more difficulty in further distance subject than close up, I would think it should have been the other way around because of the DOF factor... lol
A new Canon non-white L lens is just as likely as not, perhaps more likely than not, to be functioning incorrectly. Your experience is no surprise to me.
Have had a couple of these, always with a body lacking MA, and both focused as accurately as any lens I ever had. The "learning curve" I encountered was being extra careful with the focus point when shooting 1.2. But if focus was off, it was definitely my fault. That's not to say, of course, that dodgey copies aren't out there.
gurbally wrote:
Yeah, I agree. But my point is this: if you use only Af, not MF, does the S screen make a huge difference?
The view you see through the standard screen makes it appear as though the lens were stopped down to approximately f2.8.
The "precision" screen gives you a more accurate representation of the actual depth of field, and shows a more dramatic change from in focus to out of focus, albeit at the cost of a slightly darker viewfinder image.
-the 85LII is one of the hardest lenses to use and will take much practice before you start to see stellar shots
-focus+recompose doesn't work so well with that lens
-Try a 1D-type body; the improved AF makes a big difference.
