Took my new 85L II for an outing the first time yesterday, shot at mostly f/1.2~f/1.6 (that's what I bought the lens for), get a mix feeling about the this lens so far. AF speed is acceptable, no complaint there. Didn't have any problem to nail focus on closer range subject(waist up or head shot), I'd say my keeper rate is about 75% @f/1.2. But I can't figure out why my keeper rate dropped significantly in longer range subject (full body stuff), average about 8 out of 10 shots are OOF, they weren't front or back focus....simply out of focus. Stopping down to f/2.0 didn't help either, for whatever reason it just doesn't like to focus on far distance subject. Shutter speed was 1/3000~1/6000 so it wasn't motion blur or camera shake. I don't recall ever having this kind of focus difficulty with the 85 1.8, which I used exclusively at f/1.8~f/2.0.
I'd expected the other way around, thought I would have gotten more OOF in closer range due to thinner DOF but it wasn't the case. Have you guys seen or heard of the 85L II lost AF consistency/accuracy in longer distance subject? I was hoping my keeper rate would at least match those in closer range but it ain't happenin', am I having unrealistic expectation or is this normal? Other than the issue mentioned above here is a few keepers of the day...
1
1/4000 @f/1.2
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1213_resize.JPG
2
1/6000 @f/1.4
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1235_resize.JPG
3
1/6000 @f/1.2
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1310_resize.JPG
4
1/4000 @f/1.2
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1328_resize.JPG
5
1/3000 @f/1.4
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1363_resize.JPG
6
1/500 @f/1.2
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1425_resize.JPG
7
1/6000 @f/1.2
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1466_resize.JPG
8
1/6000 @f/1.2
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1498_resize.JPG
9
1/6000 @f/1.2
http://bcphoto.org/85MK2/IMG_1512_resize.JPG
What do you think?
Shot like #1 and 2 i get about 50% keeper, and #3, 7, and 8 plummeted down to 10~20% keeper those like 5, 6, and 9 is about 75% which is acceptable I think.
yauyi wrote:
...average about 8 out of 10 shots are OOF, they weren't front or back focus....simply out of focus.
I'm not sure what you mean here; an OOF subject must be the result of the focus being either in front of or behind the subject plane; if it were neither front focused or back focused, then it would be focused.
As for why this is happening, I suspect it has more to do with how much of the frame is filled with the subject, rather than the actual distance to the subject.
Another possibility is that you're tripping the shutter before focus has been fully achieved; the 85L has a lot of massive glass to move during focusing. That would be affected by distance, and longer distances could slow things down a bit.
What focus mode and focus point settings are you using?
Seeing as you're using a 5D2... you weren't using any points other than the center point, were you? The outer points aren't very reliable, it's probably better just to focus & recompose.
I've now gotten in the habit of using the "sports shooter's" layout with the camera in AI servo and using the AF-on button to focus as it makes the 85L more manageable. Continuous shooting is a good idea too.
And do you have an Eg-S focusing screen as well? The standard focusing screen in most cameras lets you see the effects of DoF only down to f/2.5, so a percision screen is very recommended for fast primes, especially the 85L.
Could it be that you might need to micro adjust - maybe. The bigger issue I think is trying to shoot the lens wide open and expect everything to be in focus. Where you focus with the lens is very important when shooting wide open aperatures with fast lenses. In most normal portraiture situations you want the eyes to be sharp so focus there and recompose if needed making sure they stay in focus before you trip the shutter. Check out DOF Master for a calculation of how thin your depth of field is at f1.2. Let's assume again that you are shooting wide open with your 85 mm lens at a distance of 10 feet which gives you a total depth of field of 3.48 inches which basically means everything will be in focus 1.74" in front of and 1.74" behind the area you focused on. In many of these it appears that you focused on your subjects torso rather than their eyes. Number 7 is very telling of what you were doing where your wife's torso is in focus and you can even see the area of focus even better if you look at the grass and see what is in focus in the lower left corner of the frame but also notice how small of an area the dof covers at that distance. Also interesting to note is that both kids are almost equally out of focus. In this photo you probably needed at least 5'-6' of dof to keep everyone in focus which again means that if you want everyone in focus you must select a smaller aperature like f5.6-f8 depending on your distance to subject. You will need to have a good grasp of dof in order to use this lens wide open.
Are you recomposing after acquiring focus? This would become more problematic at greater distances if you are using the center focus point because your subject has the potential of being farther from that point, thus requiring greater movement of your camera (and potential alteration of the focal plane) during the recomposition. I agree with others that I wouldn't worry....yet. Keep at it and see if things don't improve once you've had a chance to work with the lens for a while.
In the last one, the subject's front shoulder is in focus. This suggests that either the "wrong" AF point activated or that the lens front focuses. I'm guessing the former. In some of the distant shots you may have the same AF point issue since there are many subjects in the frame that the AF system might have locked onto. You might want to try using a singe AF point only.
I didn't check the aperture you used, but the larger apertures produce an extremely thin depth of field - partly due to the small aperture but made more so by the longer focal length. This makes it quite difficult to get your subject in good focus, and if the subject is not a flat plane there will be OOF elements.
I don't know if this is the case for you, but I know it is for some who buy such lenses and for some who read forum posts about them... so I'll say it here. The biggest, baddest, and most expensive lens (prime or zoom) is not always the "best" lens for one's particular needs. Some buyers (and, again, this may be directed more to others who will read this thread than to you) make the mistake of buying the most expensive L lens or most expensive version of a lens family, assuming that it will be "better." However, it often isn't the case at all that the "betterness" of said lenses will necessarily be a) relevant to their photography, or b) visible in their images, or c) not accompanied by certain other downsides.
For the majority of photographers - including very serious photographers - the f/1.8 non-L Canon 85mm prime is probably a better choice than this very expensive and very specialized lens.
If you have an AF micro adjustment problem, your close shots will be in focus and further shots will not. I would AF micro adjust the lens and see if that improves the results. I would not have even tried to use the lens without AF MA at these kinds of apertures. Other focusing tips above good also.
"Having had or used 5 different 85 L II lenses, I've determined that this lens model will occasionally mis-focus completely. The lenses do not front focus or back focus consistently and mostly focus dead-on. But the is a random situation that delives a completely out of focus shot. "
I've shot with the 85L II for a couple of years now. For the most part, at normal portrait range it is awesome. Sometimes the focus is not there, as with all lenses.
This is not normal, something is wrong either with your camera, lens or your technique.
Are you back-button focusing or using the shutter? Don't use AI-Servo either, only One-shot. I find back button focusing more reliable once you get the technique down and make sure you aren't moving the camera after focus lock. You'd be surprised how much you might be moving the camera between focusing and pressing the shutter without realizing. But this is probably not the case for the further distance shots.
Practice with the text on the side of a cereal box at various distances.
Frankly these look terrible, microadjust may help but I don't think you have a good copy plain and simple. DOF on this lens isn't microscopic when framing a person's face and shoulders.
BrianO wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean here; an OOF subject must be the result of the focus being either in front of or behind the subject plane; if it were neither front focused or back focused, then it would be focused.
As for why this is happening, I suspect it has more to do with how much of the frame is filled with the subject, rather than the actual distance to the subject.
Another possibility is that you're tripping the shutter before focus has been fully achieved; the 85L has a lot of massive glass to move during focusing. That would be affected by distance, and longer distances could slow things down a bit.
What focus mode and focus point settings are you using?...Show more →
I get the focus confirmatin beep before pressing the shutter though. was using single shot with center AF point. I thought on longer distance subject the bigger DOF would have enough coverage to get the subject's face in focus...since there's where I aim at, no?
Kolor-Pikker wrote:
Seeing as you're using a 5D2... you weren't using any points other than the center point, were you? The outer points aren't very reliable, it's probably better just to focus & recompose.
I've now gotten in the habit of using the "sports shooter's" layout with the camera in AI servo and using the AF-on button to focus as it makes the 85L more manageable. Continuous shooting is a good idea too.
And do you have an Eg-S focusing screen as well? The standard focusing screen in most cameras lets you see the effects of DoF only down to f/2.5, so a percision screen is very recommended for fast primes, especially the 85L....Show more →
I would have to give AI Servo a try on longer distance subject and see if it helps and look into the Eg-S focusing screen....
Tdizzle wrote:
Have you microadjusted the lens? Might help, certainly would not hurt!
I had to dial in +8~15 MA for close up shots, could this throw off the long distance stuff?
martsmith42 wrote:
There is a steep learning curve with the 85 f1.2. You can't focus and recompose at f1.2 as it will result in oof shoots. the d.o.f is toooo shallow
according to the DOF calculator, 15ft @f/1.2 I'd get 0.67ft DOF....which is significantly greater than at 5ft subject distance with only 0.07ft DOF...
jerrykur wrote:
The 5DMK2 outer focus point should work just fine in this light.
It looks more like you need to MicroAdjust. Even in the close up it appears that the lens is backfocusing.
My lens appear to be having slight front focus so I dialed +8~15 to help correct it...I'll have to play with other MA settings to see if it help
Russ Isabella wrote:
Are you recomposing after acquiring focus? This would become more problematic at greater distances if you are using the center focus point because your subject has the potential of being farther from that point, thus requiring greater movement of your camera (and potential alteration of the focal plane) during the recomposition. I agree with others that I wouldn't worry....yet. Keep at it and see if things don't improve once you've had a chance to work with the lens for a while.
I don't focus recompose in close up, only far distance subject since I supposedly getting bigger DOF and thought the slight focus shift wouldn't be a problem, but when I looked at the grass infront or behind the subject, none in focus, that's why i realize it wasn't front or back focus in most of those shots...
gdanmitchell wrote:
In #8 the subject's front shoulder is in focus. This suggests that either the "wrong" AF point activated or that the lens front focuses. I'm guessing the former. In some of the distant shots you may have the same AF point issue since there are many subjects in the frame that the AF system might have locked onto. You might want to try using a singe AF point only.
I didn't check the aperture you used, but the larger apertures produce an extremely thin depth of field - partly due to the small aperture but made more so by the longer focal length. This makes it quite difficult to get your subject in good focus, and if the subject is not a flat plane there will be OOF elements.
I don't know if this is the case for you, but I know it is for some who buy such lenses and for some who read forum posts about them... so I'll say it here. The biggest, baddest, and most expensive lens (prime or zoom) is not always the "best" lens for one's particular needs. Some buyers (and, again, this may be directed more to others who will read this thread than to you) make the mistake of buying the most expensive L lens or most expensive version of a lens family, assuming that it will be "better." However, it often isn't the case at all that the "betterness" of said lenses will necessarily be a) relevant to their photography, or b) visible in their images, or c) not accompanied by certain other downsides.
For the majority of photographers - including very serious photographers - the f/1.8 non-L Canon 85mm prime is probably a better choice than this very expensive and very specialized lens.
this lens does exhibit front focus in close up so I dialed in +8~15 MA to compensate, I understand the deep learning curve from the f/1.2L and willing to accept the slow AF and super thin DOF, just that I did not expect I would have more difficulty in further distance subject than close up, I would think it should have been the other way around because of the DOF factor... lol
jerrykur wrote:
You might want to try shooting stationary subjects from a tripod to see if there is an issue with the lens.
BTW, you don't have a filter on this lens, do you?
I'll give it a try on tripod. yesterday I was shooting in very bright condition, don't have any ND filter so I used the CP filter to keep the shutter speed down.
I'm curious, any MA adjustment being made to correct close up shot (4~7ft), does this adjustment of the focus plane shift also being magnified in longer distance (15~30ft)?
Other than the issue mentioned above here is a few keepers of the day... 
those like 5, 6, and 9 is about 75% which is acceptable I think.