I know this subject has been talked about before, but please be patient
Most other users have seen odd pattern noise in the shadow/dark areas, but I have a pattern noise throughout the entire spectrum. I usually don't pixel peep like this, but it was so obvious when I applied my usually sharpening (even noticeable without sharpening).
Usually I don't worry about how the file looks on the monitor, but I printed out a 12x18 and that shows the pattern noise as an odd texture. A 24x36 photo from my 40D sits on the wall and looks much better. The 5dmk2 should have better IQ than my 40D, but currently is not even close. I can't sharpen the photos as much or print nearly as big
Notes:
1) I sent my camera in to the Canon Service Center for another problem and it didn't notice this problem before. I looked at older images and don't see this issue.
2) I tried multiple memory cards and lenses.
3) Turned off all in-camera image "enhancements" and use RAW exclusively.
4) Used both ACR and DPP with very similar results.
5) Tried different ISO settings.
6) Tried shooting different subjects with different settings - all the same.
The first image below is a resized version of the original to show the cropped areas.
The second image shows the corresponding crops at 100% in four variations.
For each crop from left to right: original, b&w, sharpened, more contrast.
I'm peeping as hard as I can - and while I see a normal amount of noise for such subjects at 100% magnification (e.g. an amount that would be completely invisible in a 24" x 36" print), I'm not seeing pattern noise.
If you look at sky (monochromatic and very little dynamic gradation) at 100% magnification you will see noise. This is expected and normal and totally not an issue. (If it bothers you to see noise in the sky at 100% magnification on the screen you can apply some noise reduction.)
Low luminosity areas - e.g. the darker areas on the rocks - are also candidates for more visible noise and other issues - basically the camera has very few bits available at the dark end of the spectrum to describe luminosity.
really seems to me to detect a pattern issue, never seen on my files; particularly the third of detail #1 doesn't look as mere noise; may you share a raw?
He said he did make a print: specifically a 12 x 18.
What raw converter did you use for these? It looks like the mazing pattern I've seen from the 7D with certain raw converters, that is commonly attributed to demosaicing issues arising from imbalanced green channels.
gdanmitchell wrote:
I'm peeping as hard as I can - and while I see a normal amount of noise for such subjects at 100% magnification (e.g. an amount that would be completely invisible in a 24" x 36" print), I'm not seeing pattern noise.
Dan
Dan,
Thanks for the reply.
I printed a 12x18 as stated before. I knew that my post was too long.
This pattern noise is visible as a strange texture on a 12x18.
To me is is very obvious as a cross pattern that looks much worse than normal pixelated noise.
I didn't have any of these problems on my 40D, which I assume shouldn't produce a better file or print. The big problem is that the pattern noise is exacerbated by any post-processing such as sharpening and contrast adjustments, which I also had no problems with on my 40D. The files from my 5Dmk2 tend to looks soft, even in prints, without some sharpening.
The dark areas have the some issue, but it's in the bright sky and transitions of the soft clouds where they are the most visible in print, because the eye expects these areas to be smooth, but they just aren't.
May have to send back to Canon.
What are the bets that they won't find anything wrong with it?
I shouldn't have sent it in for the other issue and just lived with a broken camera which takes better pictures
ultrapix wrote:
really seems to me to detect a pattern issue, never seen on my files; particularly the third of detail #1 doesn't look as mere noise; may you share a raw?
I'm pretty sure that the cross pattern isn't the "usual" noise.
I don't have any way of sharing a RAW file. Having someone else look at this would help.
The disheartening thing is that my 40D produces better prints than the 5Dmk2 now.
Not much of an upgrade at this point.
Maybe I'll try downloading a free trial of the new CaptureOne software. I've read good things about that one.
surf monkey wrote:
As stated in #4 I used ACR (Photoshop4) and DPP (Canon's Digital Photo Professional).
Oops. And I even tutted at Dan for asking you to make a print!
surf monkey wrote:
The odd part of this ordeal is that I didn't have this issue before I sent my camera in to Canon.
If they replaced a part I wouldn't say that's necessarily odd. It seems that many 5D Mark IIs come out of the factory with strong banding problems, so it wouldn't surprise me that a service centre does no better.
The good news is that Canon can fix the issue you are having, and almost certainly will if asked to. I'm pretty sure it's a simple calibration issue. The bad news is some people have had to send their 5D Mark II to Canon multiple times before the issue was finally resolved. The other bad news is that every 5D Mark II has surprisingly high noise in the deep shadows at low ISO. But that's definitely not your issue here (obviously).
I have to push the files from my 40D fairly hard to get nasty noise @<800ISO,
That would make me sick if I were in your shoes, you spend big money on a top quality camera and bodies costing half as much seem to have less noise at normal ISO.
Looks like you'll be sending it in to be fixed. Good luck.
Odd question (since you used DPP), but does the noise show in jpgs?
It never occurred to me to look at the JPEGs.
Usually I shot RAW + smallest JPEG for previewing, slideshows and web while on a vacation.
Even when comparing at the same size the small JPEGs look better than the RAWs!
I just did a quick test with RAW + highest JPEG and the JPEG is clean.
Good call, SloPhoto. Sometimes I miss the most obvious things.
I guess it's off to the Canon Service Center for a third time.
LightShow wrote:
I have to push the files from my 40D fairly hard to get nasty noise @<800ISO,
That would make me sick if I were in your shoes, you spend big money on a top quality camera and bodies costing half as much seem to have less noise at normal ISO.
Looks like you'll be sending it in to be fixed. Good luck.
Thanks LightShow. I think I'll need it.
Actually the 40D looks better at 400ISO than the 5Dmk2 at any ISO. I knew that there is a noise issue at lower ISOs for the 5Dmk2 because it's calibrated to be better at high ISOs, but I wasn't expecting pattern noise.
All 3x5D2s, i have tried, have considerably more pattern noise / chroma noise in the shadows of low ISOs in such DR conditions (either in post or pre-post). This has been part of Canon's recent trend; high ISO improves, but low ISO deteriorates in the deepest shadows.
I had exactly this right after my camera was fixed by Canon(USB element)!!!!! I have a new CMOS sensor and all is fine now. I was desperate after hours of shooting and finding out that all images were useless.
I tried everything as well from DPP to Photoshop to Lightroom. I took the camera to Canon and they took photos and somehow it looked fine. Still I did not accept this and got a new sensor.
Did you use some kind of remote/external flash that may have caused interference? That's what they asked me.
Here is an example of one of my images..... Check out the original size!
surf monkey wrote:
What is the USB element and how does this cause pattern noise?
This is what happened. My USB "port" on the camera did not work. I brought it to Canon for the 2nd time. The first time they did a quick fix. This time they replaced the USB part of the camera.
But the main point is that I sent in a camera which did not have any issues with image quality and when I got it back all images had this crisscross noise pattern like yours. I brought it to Canon and talked to one of the main technicians the next day. They claimed they had no idea what it was and offered me a completely new sensor. After I got the new sensor the issue did not repeat itself. Interestingly the "white wall" shot they made in the store did not show it. Something that is made mention of as well in the dpreview thread.
If you had taken the time to read my post and look at my link it would help a lot. Pretty unbelievable anyway that you open a thread and don't look at what people post.
The main point is that we all got this (also on dpreview) after a camera repair.
ViscaB wrote:
I had exactly this right after my camera was fixed by Canon(USB element)!!!!! I have a new CMOS sensor and all is fine now.
After the board, the USB element I now also have a new sensor. The whole camera is basically new...
Sorry about the confusion. I read your post thoroughly and looked at your link, but it was unclear to me that the "USB element" meant your USB jack and that's what was fixed in the first go around by Canon. I thought that you meant the "USB element" was the cause of the noise problem.
ViscaB wrote:
If you had taken the time to read my post and look at my link it would help a lot. Pretty unbelievable anyway that you open a thread and don't look at what people post.
Thanks for your replies and for sharing your experience, it will help when I take mine into Canon.
Not sure if there's a need for the hostility in the last reply though. I think you probably can assume that someone trying to get some help on this forum is sincerely reading your posts.
Thanks again.
It was not meant to be a hostile post, I was just mildly annoyed. I thought you disregarded my post because of a misunderstanding over what was the initial cause of this issue. Good luck on having the camera fixed. It's indeed good that you now that can refer to others who have had the same issue after Canon did a repair to the camera.
I had so many issues with my camera and also lenses in recent times that I used this as leverage with Canon. I clearly demanded a working camera within 3 days. In actual fact they replaced the CMOS the same day and I could pick it up the day after.
I'm definitely interested to learn from you what is the outcome of your story. Good luck! Be careful as the issue did not show up as clearly on a white wall image the technician in the service center made. Try a different subject.
