Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

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Archive 2010 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

ksmahgrts
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p.2 #1 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

responding in jest -like your mitch bitch retort- is only condoning her behavior. you're not doing either of you any favors by mimicing her childishness.

Feb 09, 2010 at 05:25 AM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #2 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

mitch bitch is not a new joke. i've had some good practice in letting people know it's a played out, old ass joke that got old in third grade.

i don't answer it in jest.

THAT JOKE WASN'T EVEN FUNNY IN THIRD GRADE

Feb 09, 2010 at 05:30 AM

ksmahgrts
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p.2 #3 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

by "in jest" i mean that you don't clearly express that you do not approve of her behavior. by blowing it off or being sarcastic - anything that doesn't specifically address the issue - you're just digging yourself deeper.

am i the only person who knows how to have an adult conversation here?

Feb 09, 2010 at 06:14 AM

gravy graffix
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p.2 #4 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

yes....

Feb 09, 2010 at 06:16 AM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #5 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

okay i misunderstood you when you said jest. i have always understood 'jest' to mean joking.

jest–noun
1. a joke or witty remark; witticism.
2. a bantering remark; a piece of good-natured ridicule; taunt.
3. sport or fun: to speak half in jest, half in earnest.
4. the object of laughter, sport, or mockery; laughing-stock.
5. Obsolete. an exploit. Compare gest.
–verb (used without object)
6. to speak in a playful, humorous, or facetious way; joke.
7. to speak or act in mere sport, rather than in earnest; trifle (often fol. by with): Please don't jest with me.
8. to utter derisive speeches; gibe or scoff.
–verb (used with object)
9. to deride or joke at; banter.
Use jest in a Sentence
Origin:
1250–1300; ME; var. sp. of gest

Related forms:
jestful, adjective
jest⋅ing⋅ly, adverb

Synonyms:
1. quip. See joke. 2. jape, gibe. 4. butt.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.
Cite This Source | Link To jest

Explore the Visual Thesaurus »
Related Words for : jest
joke, gag, jape, laugh, jocularity
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jest (jěst)
n.
A playful or amusing act; a prank. See Synonyms at joke.

A frolicsome or frivolous mood: spoken in jest.

An object of ridicule; a laughingstock.

A witty remark.

v. jest·ed, jest·ing, jests

v. intr.
To act or speak playfully.

To make witty remarks.

To utter scoffs; gibe.

v. tr.
To make fun of; ridicule.

Feb 09, 2010 at 07:46 AM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #6 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

I didn't 'jest'

I told her flat out that the joke is not funny. She loves it.

I don't know your name, but if it rhymed with bitch, stupid, idiot, moron or whatever, and you have heard it your whole life would you laugh it off in a professional setting?

I hope not? I wouldn't and I don't.

I make an effort to surround myself with people that have a little more class. This time, in working for who I do, I made a mistake. I didn't see it coming and I'm getting out of it.

It's pretty simple.

The point of this post is was to hear from new or expecting mothers what kind of strain they would feel in a scenario like the one I am about to impose on a fellow human being.

Regardless of what I've done to get into this situation or what I'm going to do to get out of it or whether she deserves to get left high and dry, I have human compassion and all I want is some input about WHAT KIND OF STRAIN WOULD A NEW OR EXPECTING MOTHER FEEL IN THIS SITUATION because I care about people. It's as simple as that.

Feb 09, 2010 at 07:51 AM

Brian Lingle
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p.2 #7 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

"WHAT KIND OF STRAIN WOULD A NEW OR EXPECTING MOTHER FEEL IN THIS SITUATION"

There are too many unknown variables to answer that. She sounds like she's already overwhelmed with just trying to keep up with her business. Some women are more easily stressed and some handle and juggle multiple things easily. Does she have a supportive spouse, family, grandparents? Will she suffer post natal depression? Who knows?

Feb 09, 2010 at 08:03 AM

Patrick Elliott
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p.2 #8 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

I really think ksmahgrts hit the nail on the head on this one. You have to address this situation directly. Little retorts of "that got old in the 3rd grade" will not work. By not really addressing what is going on, you are enabling her behavior.

This is where so many relationships (personal, business, etc.) go wrong. People do not communicate properly. I have a question for you. In all honesty, have you addressed her as completely, directly and frankly as you have aired your thoughts on this forum? Too many times in relationships, people vent & complain to anyone and everyone else besides the one person they need to.

The point of this post is was to hear from new or expecting mothers what kind of strain they would feel in a scenario like the one I am about to impose on a fellow human being.

I understand your compassion, but look at what you are doing. You are accepting the blame for this situation by saying "I am about to impose on a fellow human being." Actions have consequences and people have no need to learn that or change bad behavior unless they face those consequences. She is not treating you like a human being, and her being pregnant (situation, hormones, etc.) is NOT an excuse to do so.

Feb 09, 2010 at 02:15 PM

Jeff Babineau
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p.2 #9 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

Mitchel107 wrote:

The responses I give her are something like 'mitch bitch got burned out in third grade' or 'im going to need a raise for that' or 'im going to shoot for someone else on this date because i need the money'

Those all seem to me like... "Just joking" or " not that serious" type comments .
You rellay didn't come off as this bugs me.
or piss off this is not the way I want to be treated in front of cleints.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:08 PM

ksmahgrts
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p.2 #10 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

Mitchel107 wrote:The responses I give her are something like 'mitch bitch got burned out in third grade' or 'im going to need a raise for that'

that is "in jest" - i don't need a dictionary, thanks. make up your mind. in one breath you say you haven't addressed it because "she's an adult" and in the next breath you're saying you've told her "flat out" that she's not funny. calling someone "unfunny" isn't responding to the situation in a way that will cause anything to change.

i'm not even going to quote the compassion BS. you come to a forum, dog this woman, her integrity, and her skills, decide to leave her, but aren't going to tell her for a few months, leaving her less time to find your replacement, and then you paint yourself as mother teresa because you're seeking advice on how to deal with a pregnant woman? give me a break.

i'm not even going to get started on the level of chauvinism exhibited by even starting this thread in the first place. her pregnancy will have little or nothing to do with the way she processes your news. she very well may be an ass - or lack the "class" which you clearly have in abundance - but at least she's transparent.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:17 PM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #11 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

No I'm not trying to be mother theresa. All I wanted was some input from new or pregnant mothers. Yeah, I don't like the woman. I hate the smell of her belches when she is talking to me in the office and the smell of her farts when we are in the car. I hate my job.

I just wanted some input about what kind of stress might happen with her.

So sorry if I'm not playing the game like you want. Call me chauvinist or tell me I'm not dealing with it right. Fine. I'll take that into consideration. I may change the way I play things out. Thank you.

When I respond to her about the comments, she is hearing more than just typing on a forum. From my body language to my tone of voice, I'm not joking around when I respond to her. I don't even want to keep going on about this because it's not the information I was looking for.....

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:55 PM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #12 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

@Patrick

In all honesty, no I haven't.

Now, people can jump all over me for this one or whatever.....we'll see.

When I say that I haven't sat her down and told her things like 'look you need to stop calling me names and belching in front of clients and farting in the car and putting your foot on my desk while im working etc etc' because she is an adult, it is to say that I feel like she has already been brought up into the way she acts and that she represents herself through her actions.

I'll interject here that I mess up as well. While I have the goal of having class, I really do miss the mark sometimes. ksmahgrts has helped me show everyone an example of this.

ok so i'm thinking to myself at work, 'man this sucks. i'm leaving. i feel guilty because she is pregnant'. im NOT thinking 'i really need to sit her down and have a discussion with her about how she acts and what she does.'

to everyone:
i'm really sorry if i come off like a jackass. i actually am a jackass from time to time. like right now i guess. but hey, i was just wondering if losing someone from your tiny business would cause too much strain on a new or expecting mother. just wondering. just curious.

curiosity killed the jackass eh?

Feb 09, 2010 at 04:12 PM

Phyl
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p.2 #13 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

You don't seem like a jackass to me. I can appreciate that you'd like to "let her down as easily as possible" while her hormones and emotions are at an all time high. I actually find that considerate. Just give her as much notice as possible. If you're going to leave in 5 months go ahead and tell her that now rather than wait. It will help her to adjust before things in her body go any more haywire than they already are.

I wouldn't bother telling her all the little things that irk you (at this point) since she will likely spin into a mantra of "I can change that" and it will create a very contentious existance for the duration, but rather that you are leaving to pursue your own personal and artistic growth. She can't argue that.

You will have to agree, I'm sure, not to try to sell to her client base (which unless you really are a jackass you wouldn't do anyway). And she may want you to leave right away to protect that ... but by the sounds of it, I doubt it.

Feb 09, 2010 at 04:35 PM

lisy78
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p.2 #14 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

Mitch,

I wouldn't say anything until you're ready to fly on your own.

In an ideal world she would meet your offer of 5 more months of help with gratitude for your consideration of her pregnancy and her business.

Odds are though that she will instead serve you a platter of "GTFO Now, Bitch" either immediately or as soon as she finds a suitable body to replace you.

That being the case I would stick to the standard two weeks notice and only then offer to stay on longer if that would help her business. That way if she says GTFO you can answer "gladly!" and mean it.

Ciao!

nOt liSy

P.S. You will be a MUCH HAPPIER person when you try to confront someone directly and clearly and with 100% intensity about something that bothers you. My better half has a problem with this because she doesn't want to seem like the bad guy pointing out something that to her is obvious (you know... she's an adult type thing) ... and frankly I've seen this cause relationships that could have blossomed if some issues were headed off immediately turn seriously cancerous. I would strongly advise you to think about this and work on changing that. I can assure you that YOU will be a much happier person once you start being clear about your expectations and your feelings as soon as practical after an event takes place.

Feb 09, 2010 at 05:33 PM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #15 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

Thanks Phyl I've been mulling around this in my mind wondering if I've really effed up.

Even though I really do screw up sometimes, I do try to do things ethically.

About her clients: I'm not a good fit with them anyway. I could use the work, but I don't really want them. I have very few of her contacts in my possession anyway because I don't want them because they plain aren't mine.
Also, when I was first starting out I made sure to ask a lot of questions about ethics such as 'is it ethical to second shoot for multiple photographers?' or even 'should I shoot a shot if the groom has a cig?'

Once I was presented with a new situation. A family member of the bride/groom we were shooting and came over to ask me if I was personally available to shoot their wedding. They were looking for someone lower cost and would use me. I said 'yes I am available.' I went over to my boss's (different boss) camera bag, pulled out his business card and gave it to the client. I said 'If you want to book me you are going to have to go through 'boss' because I'm working his territory.

I don't know guys. I think I have all of the input I want [can handle] from this thread. I've got to feed some kids and then get to work.

Thanks

Feb 09, 2010 at 05:39 PM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #16 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

lisy78 wrote:
[...snip]
You will be a MUCH HAPPIER person when you try to confront someone directly and clearly and with 100% intensity about something that bothers you. My better half has a problem with this because she doesn't want to seem like the bad guy pointing out something that to her is obvious (you know... she's an adult type thing) ... and frankly I've seen this cause relationships that could have blossomed if some issues were headed off immediately turn seriously cancerous. I would strongly advise you to think about this and work on changing that. I can assure you that YOU will be a much happier person once you start being clear about your expectations and your feelings as soon as practical after an event takes place.

I like the way you put that, man.

Feb 09, 2010 at 05:43 PM

saturnkk
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p.2 #17 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

About behavior:

The accountability for inappropriate behavior rests upon the individual. This woman's behavior, as described by the OP does not fall in a gray area and in fact would be justification for dismissal in most corporate atmospheres. It is the OP's CHOICE whether to deal directly with this behavior (my preferred method) or avoid it completely as he cannot anticipate how this communication would be received, espceicially by someone as seemingly inappropriate as this individual.

About Notice:

Her circumstance is of no responsibility to you. I imagine that you are under an employment at will agreement. If you are as upset by her behavior as you indicate, other working arrangements should be sought. Again, whether she is pregnant or breaks her arm should have no bearing under these circumstances at hand. While a 2 week notice is perceived to be a MANAGERIAL expectation norm for notice (and helps to not burn bridges in some circumstances) it is by no means the end all be all. After all, how much notice does the employee get when he/she is "let go?" If you do give 2 weeks (or any notice) be prepared to be unceremoniously walked to the door at that very moment. It is no longer your option at that point, to continue working, you have given that up for whatever the length of your notice is.

Good Luck! And if possible and where you feel comfortable, it is best in the future to set expectations with coworkers immediately on what is and is not acceptable behavior at work.

Feb 09, 2010 at 06:54 PM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #18 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

I think I'm just going to tell her next time I see her that an investor has approached me with interest and is going to make a nice sum of cash available to me in June and see where that goes.

Feb 09, 2010 at 07:02 PM

lisy78
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p.2 #19 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

Mitchel107 wrote:
I think I'm just going to tell her next time I see her that an investor has approached me with interest and is going to make a nice sum of cash available to me in June and see where that goes.

Your call (of course!) but I would NOT do that.

Not unless you're prepared for:

1. Getting asked to leave NOW.

2. Having the investor vanish into thin air and then be the laughingstock of your former boss and her acquaintances .....

...true story.. one of my ex coworkers got an offer to go work for a fantastic startup. Awesome office environment - always casual ... open door policy ... use of the company Jet for weekend Miami-Vegas flights (company would have headquarters in both places so ceo would be flying out... employees welcome to fly along).

So she gave her two weeks notice, then left.

Then a few weeks later the venture capitalists pulled the plug, the startup never got off the ground and the jet was appropriated by creditors.

She now works for the Geek Squad.

Let's just say in retrospect while I totally understand her excitement at the time, it would have been much wiser to simply say she was leaving to work for a startup... and leave it at that.

To this day... some 6-7 years later when she comes by the office to visit (which is kinda weird considering she wasn't socially friends with anyone) and she leaves there are still folks who ask me if I saw her fly in by jet or if she'd driven.

...

oh and OT: what the heck is up with investors not finding more lucrative opportunities to put their money in than wedding photography businesses. You're the second peep here to mention an investor looking to put dough into their biz... and as someone who has done some (limited) investing I could think of tons and tons of things I'd throw my money out on before I'd give anything to an aspiring wedding photographer

.

Hey... I'm totally not really knocking you or the idea ... if the paperwork looks good, go for it. I wish you AND YOUR INVESTOR awesome financial success!!!!

Feb 09, 2010 at 07:13 PM

saturnkk
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p.2 #20 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

^---This...

saturnkk wrote:
be prepared to be unceremoniously walked to the door at that very moment. It is no longer your option at that point, to continue working, you have given that up for whatever the length of your notice is.

Feb 09, 2010 at 07:15 PM

lisy78
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p.2 #21 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

On second thought ... I guess you could say that I also found an investor that decided to fund my photography business... myself

... let me tell you ... my investor is NOT doing too well so far ha ha ha! I'm having a great time and getting great gigs but I've also sucked a lot of cash out of the poor bastard to get all sorts of cool gear ... dude may never see a penny... but me and my clients? Pigs in mud!

One thing I have to say about my investor... he is not a very savvy investor... but he is so damn good-looking!

Feb 09, 2010 at 07:17 PM

Wolfe_boy
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p.2 #22 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

Aaaah, I see now. The investor in question is indeed that investor of fame and repute. Let me see if I have the whole order of events in place here.

1. You had a photography business. It failed, for one reason or another.
2. You found photography work with someone who doesn't treat you well, but (obviously) runs a viable business.
3. A friend offers you $20K to reopen your photography business.

...hopefully leading it's way to...

4. a) Having learned from said poor employer how to run a viable business, you reopen your studio with the $20K loan and are wildly successful.

...however must try hard to avoid...

4. b) Having learned nothing from said poor employer about how to run a viable business, you burn through your $20K loan in 6 months and are back step 1 again, minus the aforementioned jilted investor.

Best of luck to you, I suppose. I don't forsee this ending well, for some reason, but I like being proved wrong.

Feb 09, 2010 at 07:23 PM

lisy78
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p.2 #23 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

Ah! Same investor situation! Good catch Wolfe!

Here I thought there was a crazy investor trend developing that I might need to learn more about

I'm going to slightly revise my recommendation then

If I were you I'd keep my big mouth shut until I have the cash in hand from the investor. I'd then extend a 2 week notice with an option to freelance at a reasonable rate afterwards to help ensure there is no negative impact to her business. Farts and belches aside you're better off having someone who thinks well of you than otherwise... you never know when she might get an inquiry for a booked date.

I'd then spend every day between now and then trying to figure out what the heck this belching/farting/chick who can make a 5D2+70-200 look worse than my wife's Fuji F10 is doing RIGHT that's enabling her to actually stay in business.

I realize that I'm mostly repeating what Wolfe said... but thing is... IT BEARS REPEATING.

Feb 09, 2010 at 07:37 PM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #24 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

lisy78 wrote:

I'd then spend every day between now and then trying to figure out what the heck this belching/farting/chick who can make a 5D2+70-200 look worse than my wife's Fuji F10 is doing RIGHT that's enabling her to actually stay in business.

She always tells me she isn't making money....something I learned after starting here. Her mom owns some property including an apartment complex. I'm fairly sure that her mom has donated, over time, a huge sum of money to keep the business going.

While my most recent talks with my investor buddy have included things like 'we are going to have to go over what happens if the venture fails, what consequences are we going to agree on for breech of contract/late payment type of stuff and this is a risky venture', he has responded with 'MItch, I've seen your stuff, asked around and I have confidence in your brain, business and art'. Then he follows up with how confident he is with his monies' availability.

One thing I agree on, though is to keep my big mouth shut for right now. Thinking on the way to work (I'm here alone again), I decided to not count my chickens before they hatch, as the kids are saying these days....

I want to thank you guys for taking a look at my situation and offering input. I don't know if anyone here knows, but I'm pretty much alone at anything I do and resources like FM are hugely valuable to me. I know I'm not the best photographer and I love Pentax (woot!) and I'm not always polite (sorry ksmarghts) but I'm trying to hang in there....

Feb 09, 2010 at 09:02 PM

Mitchel107
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p.2 #25 · Different Kind of Prego Photog Situation

Wolfe, I don't think I should say that the business 'failed.' I was actually overbooked with regard to how much workload I thought I could take on. I stopped bookings but kept the business as an entity in order to finish up my backlogged work and redesign my processes and strategy.

Soon, with new guts in it, the biz will simply get new gear, new marketing and start taking bookings again and work in a more efficient way. I learned from my own self how NOT to run my biz, and those were the lessons that I first took to the drawing board when I started my redesign of things. Along the way, I have also shot for other photographers and learned some tips and tricks. When I started the first time, the economy was crashing. My school loans were missing in action because my state had run out of money and the bar where I was working nights let me go to hire 'boobs'.

I had nothing, I was hungry. My camera became my job. The only thing I did right at that time was to only accept clients that fit me. I got my share of bookings, but I wasn't outsourcing anything because I was too proud to put my artwork into the hands of a graphic designer. BIG MISTAKE. Let's just say now my genius epiphany is that I still have the raw files to fix anything I don't like from any graphic designer....(DOH!)

Feb 09, 2010 at 09:12 PM


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