I am long time Canon user with no flash experience and I would like to add some basic flash equipment to my kit for occasional small product photography and after I learn how to actually use it, perhaps for simple portrait setup. I was thinking about Speedlite 430EX2 or 580EX2 and a soft box, the 28" Westcott Apollo Speedlight Set. I did some research, but I am new to flash photography and I was wondering if you could help answering some questions:
In general, does it sound like a reasonable setup for the above, or would you get something entirely different?
Is the Speedlite 430 strong enough for this softbox provided I want to use it for smaller objects or as a main light for portrait?
How do I connect the flash with the camera? I found a 2' and 3' sync cords, but that does not seem to be long enough. I don't need wireless - do I? Will I be able to meter through the camera?
I will need to be able to tilt the softbox down. What type of support I need? Can you point me to some products?
+1 to Chuck, he's really one of the best (Will Crockett being the other IMO). I do use vivtar 285's with the apollo softbox triggered w/ a pocket wizard with good results. I have a full kit of diffusers & modifiers. Chuck is the best in the DIY world or you can go spend money with omni bounces, honl etc....
Lighting on the cheap (non TTL) I've found the strobist setup works quite well.
Brian has the right idea also you'll like to add more light..... I've accumulated about 5-6 285/283's, 3 580's and a couple lumedyne systems The stuff just starts to add up after a while.... Follow Chuck! You can't go wrong!
Mirek Elsner wrote:
...I noticed that many people here use the 580s but not many use the 430s. Would it be wiser to get the 580?
It comes down to budget, mostly.
The 580 has a higher guide number (more power) of 190 versus the 430's 140, and it can operate as a master or a slave in a wireless optically synced multiflash setup, whereas the 430 can only be a slave.
The 580 would be my choice for a first flash, if I could afford the extra bucks over a 430. I'd be happy with 430s for second and third flashes if I was going that route instead of all-manual extra flashes.
I really like my 580's. When working with multiple flash setups, I've found the 580exI's easier to set up than the 580EXII's. The menus are easier to navigate. There are some great deals on low mileage units on the B&S forum. If you're shooting off camera non TTL stuff, never under estimate the old vivitars (285 & 283's just don't EVER put them on your hotshoe!!!!)
I'm a flash junkie. I've tried all the add-ons for on-camera flash, and I've tested them extensively. Currently I have two 580's--an EX and an EXII--plus a Canon Ringlight. I also have some studio lights. My conclusions.
580EXII over the 430--no contest.
Almost all the add-ons for the 580 are nearly useless. The best flash modifier is a low white ceiling--or better yet, a low white ceiling and a white wall behind you. Closest to useful is the Lumiquest 80/20 bouncer. The Gary Fong loses too much light in any but the smallest rooms. Big softboxes are just too big for a tiny battery flash, yet still too small to be an effective softbox. I figure about 24x36 is the smallest halfway useful softbox, and you'll never light that with a 580 or equivalent.
Unless you have a 7D with built-in remote flash control, the Canon remote flash controller is really useful.
I considered the Metz equivalent to the 580 for its secondary small flash with bouncing. I still second guess my decision to get the 580EXII. In fact, I'll probably get one eventually. That baby flash is just too appealing.
burychka wrote:
I figure about 24x36 is the smallest halfway useful softbox, and you'll never light that with a 580 or equivalent.
Try it and you might be surprised. You will need to use the wideangle panel or the stofen. It will defnitely lower flash output but no problem nicely filling 24x36.
The Vivitars look interesting. But buying a Vivitar also means buying a flashmeter and that would cost me the same amount of money as a TTL flash, which is probably more practical for me right now. I'll give it another thought, though.
Mirek Elsner wrote:
But buying a Vivitar also means buying a flashmeter Huh? You don't have to have a flash meter. I've got two Vivitar's, one Canon 430ex and an Alienbees AB800 I shoot just fine without a meter. If you do a few test shoots before, it's pretty easy to dial in a correct exposure.
As for your camera talking to your flash, check out my review on the very cost effective wireless trigger HERE.
I also bought a cheap ebay 20" x 20" softbox that works well. Search ebay for "Softbox for Speedlight". They cost $40 and are great because they are very portable and collapse down like a window shade.
Mirek Elsner wrote:
The Vivitars look interesting. But buying a Vivitar also means buying a flashmeter...
Not neccesarily.
You can use the Vivitar 285HV on manual mode using the tried and true guide number method to determine power level, and it also has 4 auto ranges that use the built-in sensor to control the output -- similar to TTL, except not through the lens.
I didn't have a flash meter of my own until recently, and have used the 285HV for decades. A flash meter makes things easier, faster, and more precise, but isn't essential. The 285HV even has a built-in calculator dial on the side that shows the flash-to-subject distance for each power level, and it adjusts automatically as you zoom the head in or out to show the correct numbers. Very convienient, and a lot more fun than carrying a GN chart or doing the math with paper and pencil.
Mirek Elsner wrote:
Can you tell me more?
Look at the specs. More power. More features. And here's a big one--the 580 can be a master or slave, where the 430 can be a slave only. Unless you're using a 7D or have the Canon STE2, you need a master to use the slave.
As others have pointed out, without ETTL control, you need a flash meter, so the cheap radio remotes cause things to get complicated. Personally, I don't mind complicated, but that means more time to set up and test.
I have the Canon 430 EX and the 580 EX and also invested in Canon's wireless transmitter device to sync them along with lightstands, umbrella and softbox (15x15).
I am also just learning and upgraded from a redneck continuous light setup. I love the wireless setup and the portability and the ease of setup. I can also keep adding slave units as necessary and no more cords to trip over.
I'm using my 580 as main and the 430 as fill and they are working out fine for me.
Although I have a flash meter, I use it less than 50% of the time. More times than not, I use the highlight alerts combined with the histogram to determine flash exposure. I use a flash meter when I need to determine flash ratios. The thing to do is to get out there and start shooting and see what works. You may want to (gasp, take a breath now)....take a class or join a group.
You'll not regret buying a 580EXII. No matter what direction your shooting takes you, you'll always at some time or another need a good on-camera flash, and the 580 pretty much does it all and at a reasonable price...sort of.
After you get it, you might want to look into external power--for faster recycle time and longer stretches between battery change. Flashzebra.com has an excellent alternative to the Canon battery pack, and it's about $65. I used it with my 580 to shoot people at a new clothing line launch party. The advantage of 12 AA batteries over 4 is significant. It compares favorably with the Canon CP-E4 for $150.
Huh? You don't have to have a flash meter. I've got two Vivitar's, one Canon 430ex and an Alienbees AB800 I shoot just fine without a meter. If you do a few test shoots before, it's pretty easy to dial in a correct exposure.