Event Photography HELP! : )

FM Forum Rules
Rules: One new topic per day

FM Forums \| People Photography \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 4 5 end

Archive 2010 · Event Photography HELP! : )

airfrogusmc
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #1 · Event Photography HELP! : )

I posted examples of BOTH
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/864173/1 scroll down and read.

and you are wrong on ISO because we are no longer stuck at 400 ASA/ISO or slower and right on dragging the shutter but unless you are using a mono pod or dealing with stationary objects your better INCREASING the ISO and balancing the flash to that exposure. And I do fully understand dragging the shutter and was forced on monopods and doing just that in the 500C/M days with film to bring up the backgrounds and I would now rather drag the ISO because I get better more consistent results then trying to hand hold at 1/15 of a second and slower as you suggest by taking light away using lower ISO.

Try and grasp The Law of Reciprocity and how it applies to photography. It truly is the golden rule.

The reason I mention the Law of Reciprocity to you is because I can't understand why you think its OK drag the shutter and not drag the ISO when you get the same end result without longer shutter speeds which can lead to ghosting from subject or camera movement.

And Travis has a 50D which should give him even better low light performance than my old 5Ds give me.

Feb 07, 2010 at 07:19 PM

NinaS
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #2 · Event Photography HELP! : )

airfrog, I have been a RAW shooter since my first DSLR, and religiously still do so for all my portrait work!
... the trick with the 50D is to shoot JPG & use the in camera noise reduction when pushing the ISO up there ... the RAWs suck at ISO 6400 without post processing ... and in sports, we want out of the camera to the proof gallery in as little time as possible ... and with all the MP's this camera has, I can make huge prints ... and, like you said, nail the exposure and they're great ... why would anyone shoot to fix it later if they can get it right in camera?

Feb 08, 2010 at 12:02 AM

airfrogusmc
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #3 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Nina two words noise ninja

Nice photos in a tough to shoot situation. Great job.

Feb 08, 2010 at 12:39 AM

NinaS
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #4 · Event Photography HELP! : )

noise ninja adds a step, I have a crew shooting dog agility every weekend, we take 5000+ images over every weekend (Fri-Sun) ... I have a photog in each arena, depending on the level of the dogs, they choose 2-4 obsticles, each obsticle they take 2-3 images, they cull in camera, we dump cards throughout the day, by evening, all large jpgs have been batched to web sized, sorted by class & jump height & uploaded, repeat this every night of every trial, and promise to have the whole show's proofs online in proof galleries by Monday night

time, or saving time is the most important part of the process with this volume of sports photography.

this means no additional steps, running a large volume of large files thru any software for any purpose slows everything down ... shoot, dump, resize, upload
that is as simple as it gets

I have pushed images thru ninja pre-50D jpgs, but I've figured out how to get the best performance out of this camera, and, I believe this thread began because the op stated that the ISO performance of this particular body sucked above 400 ... and I beg to differ, and offered a process & pictures to show there is a way to use it

btw, Tues and/or Wed of each week is for editing & fufilling orders, Thurs is a play day, and repeat the process for 40+ weekends a year ... that's my job!

Feb 08, 2010 at 03:44 AM

mervifwdc
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #5 · Event Photography HELP! : )

ditto what NinaS says,

I cover some dog agility events, and we print on site. We have the shots on the viewing stations ready to print less than 5 minutes after any given competition. The trick is to make the camera / photog get it right so that it comes off the card as good as possible, and as good as it needs to be. Easily possible with these cameras. if however I was shooting for a commission on one dog, and a 5 foot square print was ordered, I might shoot raw, but 60% of our sales are 10*8, and the rest are either images for web sites, or 6*8 prints, so the noise is really a non-issue.

Nina - never saw agility on hard surface before, all the Irish ones are on grass. funny how some things are the same, and some are different!

Merv.

NinaS wrote:
noise ninja adds a step, I have a crew shooting dog agility every weekend, we take 5000+ images over every weekend (Fri-Sun) ... I have a photog in each arena, depending on the level of the dogs, they choose 2-4 obsticles, each obsticle they take 2-3 images, they cull in camera, we dump cards throughout the day, by evening, all large jpgs have been batched to web sized, sorted by class & jump height & uploaded, repeat this every night of every trial, and promise to have the whole show's proofs online in proof galleries by Monday night

time, or saving time is the most important part of the process with this volume of sports photography.

this means no additional steps, running a large volume of large files thru any software for any purpose slows everything down ... shoot, dump, resize, upload
that is as simple as it gets

btw, Tues and/or Wed of each week is for editing & fufilling orders, Thurs is a play day, and repeat the process for 40+ weekends a year ... that's my job!

Feb 08, 2010 at 01:25 PM

airfrogusmc
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #6 · Event Photography HELP! : )

I batch NN but it does ad a time consuming step and I'm not ever doing near that kind of volume. Looks like you have it down pat and your images look good. So I stand corrected

If I shoot 500 frames on a job I've shot heavy.

I believe the 50D has better high ISO performance than my old 5Ds I know first hand the 5DII does and I get great results at 1600 and 3200 from the old 5Ds.The secret is nailing the exposure.

Feb 08, 2010 at 02:29 PM

NinaS
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #7 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Merv, that was my first trial on "mats" all the others I do are either in cold barns on packed dirt, or the rare few in the summer outside on grass

My sales are prints between 3.5x5 & 11x14 ... our NW clients are conditioned that our indoor barn shots aren't always the greatest above that size ... but when we have those rare outdoor trials we sell the large 2'x4' custom flags like candy

When I'm not trialing, I am a portrait photographer, have been for more years than I can count, and always RAW + sm JPG ... those sm JPGs are always my proofs, because I still shoot it right in camera, but love having the RAW files to work from

example: shot a litter of pups last month, client wanted one pup cropped from the original group shot, about 1/10th of the original shot, then they wanted to buy a 20x30 poster of that one pup ... the eyes were amazingly clear on the crop ... that is the benefit of a great shot to begin with

air, I think 100 shots is alot on a portrait or boudoir session

but will die today, was training two new shooters at agility over the weekend, so I know they soooo over shot, compared to how few I've learned to take ... I'm stalling before I start dumping ... not looking forward to this day

Feb 08, 2010 at 03:32 PM

Travis Harris
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #8 · Event Photography HELP! : )

WOW - Lots of feedback on this one... I took the weekend off to go fly my sailplane (RC).. and did not look at this until now..

Few things...

1. I am going to buy a 5D II with some of the funds I have pulled in over the last two jobs... This way I will have a real pro camera, AND a nice 50D for backup.

2. I just want to check my knowledge....

Basically, some are saying to either increase the ISO to buy back some ambient... or slow down the my shutter to allow more time to pass to burn in that light. I get all of this.. I got lost trying to follow the debate above, but this should all be very basic stuff... There are only three levers to pull... (Av, Tv, ISO). In low light I am way open at 2.8, and "I" might choose 1/60 for safety sake (but I could go lower I know, 1/30, 1/15, 1/10, etc..) depending. Then, we have the sensitivity (grain) factor.. in general I feel that 400 is great on the 50D, and much more sensitive then that things get hairy (to my standards).

I start off my setting the ISO, and opening up the lens.. meter, and see about where my shutter is... flash is ETTL mode. maybe +/- FEC if needed. Done. If I meter and the ambient is say 1/10.. then I need to either accept that, and use flash to freeze motion (need to make sure of my flash coverage and distance to subjects) or, I need to increase my ISO and raise my shutter, and lower the flash.. deal?

- T

Feb 08, 2010 at 06:10 PM

airfrogusmc
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #9 · Event Photography HELP! : )

I shoot all manual and would HIGHLY recommend that for this type of work and unless your subjects are very stationary I wouldn't go below 1/30 of a sec on shutter speeds until you really get used to it. With the 5DII I've gotten very clean images at 6400 ISO. I have very high standard also and I can get really good prints from 1600 & 3200 ISO images from my old 5Ds and and the new 5DII is even cleaner at higher ISOs. I shot some 1600 ISO images that wound up on a billboard for one of my clients. So don't fear things above 400 ISO especially with the 5DII.

Feb 08, 2010 at 07:06 PM

Jim Rickards
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #10 · Event Photography HELP! : )

What people are not saying in these discussions is what mode (Tv, Av or Manual) they are using. Manual is what I use for low light indoor shots.

In Manual Mode the ETTL will send out a preflash, measure the resulting reflected light, then send out the 'real' flash at a power setting that will illuminate the subject THAT WAS FOCUSED ON. All this in the blink of an eye and you may not even notice two flashes sent. You can use whatever aperture/shutter speed/ISO you want and the flash will adjust up to the point where it runs out of power. For these indoor flash shots, I used 1/30th to allow ambient light in. Others use even slower.

I put cap's on in the above para, because it makes a big difference. The light output of the flash is calculated on the distance to the object you focus on.

My previous cam was a 20D, and I used ISO 400 a lot, reasoning that the higher ISO would 'save' my recycle time a bit. I would not hesitate to go a lot higher with my 5D MkII.
EDIT: airfrog posted while I was typing. I see he uses Manual too.

Feb 08, 2010 at 07:08 PM

airfrogusmc
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #11 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Jim I shot for years with old F-1s and 500C/Ms (both manual). I got used to it and prefer it. Its gives me all the control.

I don't like shooting slower than 1/30 on people talking and moving, though I have done it, but with a clean ISO of 3200 and with the 5dII 6400 it makes it easier not to have to shoot slower than 1/30th.

Feb 08, 2010 at 07:16 PM

Jim Rickards
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #12 · Event Photography HELP! : )

airfrogusmc wrote:
Jim I shot for years with old F-1s and 500C/Ms (both manual). I got used to it and prefer it. Its gives me all the control.

I don't like shooting slower than 1/30 on people talking and moving, though I have done it, but with a clean ISO of 3200 and with the 5dII 6400 it makes it easier not to have to shoot slower than 1/30th.

No argument there. I'm on the same page.

My post just wanted to point out how the Manual Mode/ETTL combination worked and how to let more ambient in.

Feb 08, 2010 at 07:38 PM

Travis Harris
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #13 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Yep, I use Manual exposure mode all the time.

Feb 08, 2010 at 07:44 PM

Travis Harris
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #14 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Hummm... know anywhere where I can look at a 1ds2? I always wanted a 1 Series camera... but I also don't really like the idea of buying used.. I like some of the bells on the 5D II , and as long as the ISO performance rivals my 50D, I will be in good shape! Video's will be a neat thing too.. might be able to build on some additional service with this...

- T

Feb 08, 2010 at 09:31 PM

airfrogusmc
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #15 · Event Photography HELP! : )

I've shot with both and for low light the old 5D is better that the 1DsMkII and the 5DmkII is much better in low light. The 1DsMkII is weather sealed and has FPS which neither mean all that much to me. Better focus points is a plus but doesn't outweigh the low light capabilities of the 5DII.

Feb 08, 2010 at 11:54 PM

Snaga
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #16 · Event Photography HELP! : )

You'll find the 5DmkII sharper from edge to edge that the current 1 series cameras.
I tested my 1Ds mkIII against a colleagues 5D mkII and the 5D mkII was far sharper in the corners :cry:

Feb 09, 2010 at 12:28 AM

Travis Harris
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #17 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Wow, interesting... I feel pretty confident in the 5D II. Especially at the current price of $2,499. I have all the nice glass and everything else.. so all I need is the body. Now, I can keep my 70-200 2.8 IS on the 50D (and take advantage of the crop) and on my other shoulder I can have the 5DII with the 24-70 2.8 and actually get 24! Together I will feel quite good.. and have both a nice backup / faster FPS camera (50D) and one that is just all out performance in image quality and FF!

It "looks" in the online pics that the 5D II is "bigger" the the 50D? Is this true?

- T

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:12 AM

Travis Harris
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #18 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Thanks Steve! I will check out the links you provided. Oh, I know about the video stuff...

.. I would never have someone at my wedding using just that either.. I meant that there might be some other applications I can use it for.. like filming some behind the set stuff for models etc.. or other applications where its not life or death like a wedding..

Thanks again!!

Feb 09, 2010 at 02:09 PM

Travis Harris
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #19 · Event Photography HELP! : )

How about noise levels with the 1ds2 vs 5d2?

Feb 09, 2010 at 02:17 PM

Mitchell Carter
Online
Upload & Sell: Off

p.4 #20 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Cableaddict wrote:

Is this supposed to be a pic to aspire to?

IMO it's rather dull. The faces have no pop. The color-balance is also slightly off.

I'm outa' here. This is silly.

No, Cable, it's not a picture to aspire to; it's to demonstrate the method. I'm not going to blabber "advice" on how to do something without actually having done it myself. ...Know the type?

Sorry, OP, and good luck.

Feb 09, 2010 at 02:20 PM

1 2 3 4 5 end
FM Forums \| People Photography \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 4 5 end