Event Photography HELP! : )

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Archive 2010 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Travis Harris
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p.1 #1 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Hello everyone...

I wanted to express / vent my frustration with event photography. I am a bit new to it, and have had a few gigs... and am finding I really don't like it. Mainly because of the lack of quality I am seeing in my shots..

I love LOVE studio work, and anything where I have a great deal of lighting control. However, using the flash on my camera.. I get a bit put off.. and don't care for it.

I guess I want to talk about my techniques, and first try and maybe improve myself before I start blaming the camera...

. The camera I am using is the 50D, with a RSS Wedding pro bracket, and a 580 II. Right off, let me say that ISO performance above 400 on this camera is crap. Period. This maybe a subjective point.. but for my standards I really don't feel like this is the right tool for low light events (which are all my events BTW). Now, I am using mainly the 24-70 L 2.8. Even at 2.8 with 1/60 down to 1/30 at ISO 400 my ambient registration is nill to nothing.. so, my first issue is getting a nice ambient to "burn in".. it's just not happening unless I dip lower then I can hand hold...

My first thought is to simply get a 5D II and have the right tool. I would expect I could go ISO 800 without any issues, and possibly beyond? This would allow me (in my mind) to hold a 1/30 - 1/60 shutter AND still have a nice ambient burn resulting in the on camera flash to act more of a fill then a main light source!

Anyway.. if anyone could offer up some advice for me / confirm my thoughts above that would be great! I understand exposure, the camera and the limitations of tools and situations.. and I just don't see the 50D being a great choice for this type of stuff.. certainly no breathing room!

- T

Feb 05, 2010 at 03:33 PM

Steady Hand
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p.1 #2 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Hi Travis.

My comments or suggestions below are not a criticism of you, your model, your talent or skill. I offer them in a friendly tone of voice and with the sole intent to help you with a second POV and set of eyes. If you read sincere questions and simple suggestions as "criticism" of you, then you will miss how I am trying to help you. All smilies I post are genuine and sincere.

I am only writing this because I think you are going in the wrong direction thinking that a new camera body will solve your problems. So these comments are simply friendly "steer you in the right direction" type of comments.

_________

I don't think the camera is the problem here. You may want the more expensive camera body, but I don't think you will solve your problem by buying it.

It is more an issue of "user" using the tool, not the tool.

Event work in dark spaces where you use flash (on a bracket) and want some ambient light to show (so the faces are not the only thing seen in a photo) is a matter of balance. That is a "technique" issue rather than a camera body issue. It takes some method, some experimenting, and some planning or flexibility. It is not a push button solution you need.

For example, you are considering using ISO 400 or ISO 800.

Event pros can use ISO 100 and have done so for many years and they use the techniques (exposure settings, bounce, etc.) and tools (flash) to get balanced exposures indoors at events.

There is SO much written about this on the net that I won't repeat other stuff here. Just spend some time in the Lighting forum of this site or others and you will see that many people encounter this same challenge. Or ask in the wedding forum (event work as it usually is)...

I hope these comments help you.

Feb 05, 2010 at 03:48 PM

rgboy
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p.1 #3 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Hi Travis.

Let's start from 50D. I did some research before I bought used 40D preferred it to new 50D. Mainly because noise issue on 50D. So I think you right, this is not the best choice for low ambient light. (5D always better choice

)

As for technique; you should be OK with 580II with RSS. What is your issue? Are images under or overexposed?

Depends where you shoot. I personally prefer bounce from ceiling if there is low white selling actually.

Cheers

Feb 05, 2010 at 03:50 PM

KABeach
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p.1 #4 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Steady,

I could be wrong, but I think the OP understands that - He was complaining that he wasn't comfortable pushing the camera past ISO 400, but couldn't get a good ambient balance at that EV - he wanted to be able to push the camera to ISO 800 or better to bring up the ambient level, thus is question about a body with better high ISO quality.

Cheers,
Ken

Feb 05, 2010 at 03:50 PM

Steady Hand
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p.1 #5 · Event Photography HELP! : )

KABeach wrote:
Steady,

I could be wrong, but I think the OP understands that - He was complaining that he wasn't comfortable pushing the camera past ISO 400, but couldn't get a good ambient balance at that EV - he wanted to be able to push the camera to ISO 800 or better to bring up the ambient level, thus is question about a body with better high ISO quality.

Cheers,
Ken

Hi Ken,

I don't read his post the same way you do.

I do think the focus on "camera body high ISO quality" is misplaced focus (based on my reading of the OP's post.

Because I suspect the root cause of the poor exposures has nothing to do with high ISO quality issues.

But...I could be wrong...of course.

The post may just be a rant from someone who wants justification for buying a new more expensive camera body...it would not be the first time I have seen that on a forum!

Time will tell.

My Simple Suggestions to Travis: Post a few photos showing the issues as YOU see them. Describe what you see and what you WANT to see. Describe what is showing that you DON"T want to see in the pictures. That will help anyone here who is trying to help you. In short, show the photos you are making and why they are not pleasing you along with the shot details (SS, Aperture, Flash methods, etc.). I believe that is the only good way for you to get the best possible help with your challenges.

Perhaps someone else here can SEE what the issues are based on photos and descriptions.

Feb 05, 2010 at 03:59 PM

Travis Harris
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p.1 #6 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Thanks Steady... I know, and I am willing to explore using the existing camera (50D) in a better way, to get better shots. Your right, there is a wealth of info on the net about exposure balance, and etc... I have both read a ton of this, and bought all the books all the wonderful FM members have suggested last year... I am just at a point now, where exposure seems to simple to me.. and I feel like I am asking too much from the tool I have.

In a sense I am trying to answer my own question, but looking for backing from others that either use the 5D II or my 50D and feel the same... OR, maybe they use the 50D and get stellar shots... (which I am starting to doubt). Now, granted every shooting venue is different, and lighting will be always changing... so for some the 50D *might* be a fine tool to use, however.. for others it's no better then a standard point and shoot!

.

Here is my general practice for any shoot not in the studio:

1. Ambient exposure. I take notice as to what this is. I take into account any specific DOF I might need (for large groups etc).. and I take a few test shots with no flash. I try and get *some* ambient to register with no flash. I give myself a 1/30 min hand held speed, and typically try and stay around 1/60. I use my ISO in the 200 - 400 range for dim settings.. and when ever I get up ageist the wall at 1/30 I use a higher ISO and I get very bad results.. also, sometime I can't use f/2.8. Sometimes in tight spaces for groups.. I need to stop down! Even worse!

2. Flash exposure. Here I then add in ETTL flash, and ride the +/- FEC accordingly. Pretty simple. When I can't bounce I use a diffuser on the head.

Thats about it... it's not rocket science. There are only so many levers that can be pulled in the great old camera to produce "generally" good shots in a verity of shooting situations. This is why I was thinking about the 5D II

- T

Feb 05, 2010 at 04:02 PM

Travis Harris
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p.1 #7 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Okay,

Here are some examples from last night...

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Feb 05, 2010 at 04:15 PM

Travis Harris
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p.1 #8 · Event Photography HELP! : )

They are outside, so no bounce.

Feb 05, 2010 at 04:16 PM

200231786
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p.1 #9 · Event Photography HELP! : )

The pics look great

The only things I can add:
You probably have higher expectations on the noise/quality than your customers, and the posted photos look just right in terms of subject vs background illumination.

I wouldn't personally want a much brighter background, in these shots the subject stands out nicely with enough background detail for context without straining your eyes.

As a generalisation I'd say getting a 5D (I orII) would be a nice to have, not an essential. An original 5D in good condition may be a cost effective way of improving your noise situation.

J

Feb 05, 2010 at 04:24 PM

rgboy
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p.1 #10 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Hey Travis. They are not as bad as you complained. I would give it bit more PP (Mainly crop). Other then that for outside it is quite acceptable.

Cheers

Feb 05, 2010 at 04:26 PM

tc-photo
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p.1 #11 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Are you sure you need to shoot so slow 1/30 with a flash? Seems like a little faster shutter speed could sharpen the pics a bit without having much effect on your exposure. I've shot in very dark locations with a flash and been able to stay at 1/100 or maybe even a little faster.

Feb 05, 2010 at 04:30 PM

ShaneMD
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p.1 #12 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Hey Trav, I think they look good too. The background is how I would like it. I think maybe an off camera flash would really make you happy. I think you would need some sort or cord or triggers with your camera

Feb 05, 2010 at 04:56 PM

hardlyboring
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p.1 #13 · Event Photography HELP! : )

I shoot wedding photos with flash all the time at like 1/10 1/15 or a second
the flash stops the action and as long as your focused right you get a sharp shot.
doug

Feb 05, 2010 at 04:59 PM

Travis Harris
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p.1 #14 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Thanks...

Trust me, I don't want to spend any more $$ then I need on more cameras. However, I am moving closer and closer to full time work.. so an investment on a 5D *might* be in the cards. Honestly, I just would like to have a little more head room for low light situations as this and of corse wedding receptions are no joy either..

50D rocks, for all the other stuff I do... but I like it most when I have a pocket wizard in the hot shoe : )

.

The only other practice, I could see myself getting better at is dragging the shutter more, and using flash freeze. I should be practicing this anyway to bring more emotion in some shots.. But, I just don't want to have to do that for hundreds of shots worrying that I might be blowing shots along the way!

Feb 05, 2010 at 05:13 PM

sbv20
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p.1 #15 · Event Photography HELP! : )

I have minimal experience here, but on the one event that I did cover, i found my Sigma 24 1.8 to be critical. With 1.8, I could get significantly more ambient than at 2.8. At this point, I found gelling the flash to be critical. If there is less of a disparity between the flash color and the ambient color, you can go for a slower shutter speed. The flash will freeze what you want, and obviously the ambient will be blurry, but as long as the blurry ambient is not flaming orange, in the case of an incandescent-lit venue, it will not be too obtrusive. I think also, as mentioned above, clients and other viewers will be much less technically critical than you. I think they would be find with a bit of blur, shallower DOF, and slightly higher image noise (iso 800 no problem, especially if printing).

Feb 05, 2010 at 05:30 PM

rgboy
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p.1 #16 · Event Photography HELP! : )

ShaneMD wrote:
Hey Trav, I think they look good too. The background is how I would like it. I think maybe an off camera flash would really make you happy. I think you would need some sort or cord or triggers with your camera

Off camera flash good when you have time and space to play with this. If you shooting ongoing event it's making more problem then a few bad shots with flash and bracket.

Feb 05, 2010 at 07:12 PM

Ravitej
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p.1 #17 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Using a 5D and now a 5D2. With the 580 bounced, I find the DEMB flash diffuser to be perfect for events. Even with high ceilings. I shoot at 800 with an 24-105 f4 lens. The adjustable bounce reflector allows the photos to look like flash was not used. Very natural. And if I need to have much more background, going to 1600 or 3200 on the 5D2 has little or no penalty. Have a nice DEMB flash bracket, but it's used for the Zoom H4n recorder that works as an on-board mic/mixer. The 580 sits on the camera shoe with the bounce and reflector – it simply doesn't matter to use the bracket fro flash. The combo provides stills and video for events that covers all the bases. And the DEMB bracket mounted on the left side makes a great handle for two hand grip.

Feb 05, 2010 at 07:13 PM

Travis Harris
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p.1 #18 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Hi Ravitej

Is this the product you are using? The "Pro" version?

http://www.dembflashproducts.com/

- T

Feb 05, 2010 at 08:03 PM

bryanlindsey
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p.1 #19 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Didn't read other responses, so sorry if I duplicate.

My advice:
1) Make sure you're diffusing the flash. Bounce it whenever you can.
2) Drag the shutter. Especially when people are stationary like in your samples, you can go 1/15 or so (assuming your flash is 1/60) and give the sensor a little extra time to soak up the ambient light.
3) I would rather have the flash on-camera and bounce as opposed to on a bracket, but that's just my personal preference.

Oh, and 4) Do the best with the tools you have before upgrading. Be sure it is the TOOL that is limiting YOU and not the other way around. That's a principle that was ingrained in me early on, and I've found it very useful.

Hope this helps.

Feb 05, 2010 at 08:05 PM

Travis Harris
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p.1 #20 · Event Photography HELP! : )

Here is what I was using last night...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/544391-REG/LumiQuest_LQ_106_ProMax_Accessory_Kit_.html

Feb 05, 2010 at 08:08 PM

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