Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

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Archive 2010 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

mdbassman
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p.14 #1 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Alan321 wrote:
I thought I had reset my camera completely by removing both batteries and also doing a camera reset but the old My Menu functions were still there and so was the AF MA settings. Just what do you have to do to completely restore a 1D4 to original condition ?

- Alan

Alan, I received this "how to" from a very reliable source who knows his equipment and Canon.
1) remove both the "watch battery" AND the main battery for at least 45 minutes.
2)check to see that date, time....is all rest to default(not what you set)
3)make sure that all Cfn are as should be ie default no blue settings
4) make sure AF point is working and sharp on a stationary object preferrably with/on a tripod and that assist points are not interferring..
5)try AI Servo tracking w/default settings.

Good Luck!
I am still working on my upgrade problem.
Dan

Feb 05, 2010 at 08:15 PM

Alan321
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p.14 #2 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Thanks dan. I didn't wait more than a couple of minutes. I'll try again.

- Alan

Feb 06, 2010 at 07:56 AM

Alan321
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p.14 #3 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Colin Key wrote:
I am wondering whether anyone did a re-set and clear all custom functions when they updated their 1D Mk3 firmware, and if so did it produce any improvement?
Colin

Whether or not they did, there were certainly hardware problems with at least enough 1D3s to warrant Canon-instigated returns to Canon Service. That you got a good one is great but some people certainly got duds. So far, thankfully, the reported concerns with the 1D4 are restricted to the effects of the firmware upgrade process and not even whether the present firmware is 1.04 or 1.06. Those who did not upgrade have a camera that seems to work great and yet Canon saw a need to release a new firmware within weeks of the camera going to market, so there must have been something that needed improving. At least some of those who upgraded the firmware have seen a distinct deterioration and for them it is worth looking for new or better ways to reset their camera to the same state that the new 1D4s are shipping as. I thought that removing both batteries would do the trick but it needs more than that. Dan has been told to allow 45 minutes with both batteries out. I want to get the reset and the AF MA (microadjustment) right before I go back to taking more hundreds of photos to check the AF tracking.

In my case the AF tracking was initially confused by a combination of user error and harsh lighting (specular reflections off glass and chrome). I resolved those problems and found the tracking to be ok but the focus to be not quite right - almost but not quite. Then I started with the MA changes but in the middle of that I upgraded the firmware. Then I saw this thread. So now I'm largely disregarding all previous results and will start again. I say "largely" because I can't help noting that this was my first Canon DSLR in years that could focus track right out of the box. My previous cameras that could not do that were the 1D2, 1Ds2 and 40D. The biggest downside so far has been the apparent need for focus MA.

- Alan

Feb 06, 2010 at 10:09 AM

Gust
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p.14 #4 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

mdbassman wrote:
Alan321 wrote:
I thought I had reset my camera completely by removing both batteries and also doing a camera reset but the old My Menu functions were still there and so was the AF MA settings. Just what do you have to do to completely restore a 1D4 to original condition ?

- Alan

Alan, I received this "how to" from a very reliable source who knows his equipment and Canon.
1) remove both the "watch battery" AND the main battery for at least 45 minutes.
2)check to see that date, time....is all rest to default(not what you set)
3)make sure that all Cfn are as should be ie default no blue settings
4) make sure AF point is working and sharp on a stationary object preferrably with/on a tripod and that assist points are not interferring..
5)try AI Servo tracking w/default settings.

Good Luck!
I am still working on my upgrade problem.
Dan

Dan,
I did remove the 2 battery's, waited about 1 hour, put back the battery's, but the only thing that was rested, was the date and time.
All the other settings where still there.
Whats going wrong?

Feb 06, 2010 at 10:31 AM

nathanlake
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p.14 #5 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Some of this issue I am sure is due to our experiences with the 1D-III. Remove that dark time in Canon history and I wonder if we would even be looking so closely at the 1D-IV's AF ability.

Feb 06, 2010 at 12:26 PM

Gust
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p.14 #6 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Nathan, I think you-re right, but..
when my cam on a tripod, testing on a contrast static object, AI shooting, the AF is very chattering, not steady on the point.
its like te AF is constantly changing and searching

Feb 06, 2010 at 12:38 PM

LR110
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p.14 #7 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Gust wrote:
mdbassman wrote:
Alan321 wrote:
I thought I had reset my camera completely by removing both batteries and also doing a camera reset but the old My Menu functions were still there and so was the AF MA settings. Just what do you have to do to completely restore a 1D4 to original condition ?

- Alan

Alan, I received this "how to" from a very reliable source who knows his equipment and Canon.
1) remove both the "watch battery" AND the main battery for at least 45 minutes.
2)check to see that date, time....is all rest to default(not what you set)
3)make sure that all Cfn are as should be ie default no blue settings
4) make sure AF point is working and sharp on a stationary object preferrably with/on a tripod and that assist points are not interferring..
5)try AI Servo tracking w/default settings.

Good Luck!
I am still working on my upgrade problem.
Dan

Dan,
I did remove the 2 battery's, waited about 1 hour, put back the battery's, but the only thing that was rested, was the date and time.
All the other settings where still there.
Whats going wrong?

Gust,

I think what you need to do is this:

First clear all camera settings and C Fn's (page 53 and 204 of the manual)
Once this is done, remove the batteries (2) and let it rest for 60 minutes.....

Good luck...

Feb 06, 2010 at 01:10 PM

jerrykur
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p.14 #8 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Gust wrote:
Nathan, I think you-re right, but..
when my cam on a tripod, testing on a contrast static object, AI shooting, the AF is very chattering, not steady on the point.
its like te AF is constantly changing and searching

Isn't that how AI is supposed to work? If you leave your finger on the button you are asking it to constant recheck focus. With a stationary target that mean go off focus- recompute focus - set focus to new setting (which could be the same).

Feb 06, 2010 at 02:17 PM

Frank Kearney
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p.14 #9 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Isn't it just amazing that the manufacturer would present this product to us with this obvious problem, and we have to "clear functions", and "take out batteries", and all this other BS, trying to make their $5000. camera do what it was supposed to do out of the box. The biggest insult of all, is......silence.
I am convinced this is a Japanese cultural phenomenon, which we have seen repeated many times - if you don't admit the problem, there is no problem. It is this very same mindset that now has the president of Toyota bowing on national tv apologizing for a problem they were aware of in August of last year, and again, up until yesterday, denying there was any problem with the Prius braking system.
I was lucky enough, or I think I should say, smart enough, to buy from B&H who not only accepted back the camera, but acknowledged it was "defective" and covered the shipping back to their warehouse. If everybody just returned their cameras as defective, perhaps we would get some explanation, but I really feel bad for you photogs who are trying to make their new cameras work properly. The sad irony is that the people who should be making the cameras work, are the manufacturer, but their corporate mantra appears to be, "no problem".
JMO
Frank

Feb 06, 2010 at 03:04 PM

SLD
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p.14 #10 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Put the FW1.0.6 aside, all those statements regarding RESET the camera sound like nonsense to me....

If you set up the CFn incorrectly at the first place, just correct it with the right choices which fits your needs and shooting styles.

If you don't know all the meanings of the CFn, just leave it as defaults, only thing you may need to set up is to select the focus point as single AF point....

Cheers

Feb 06, 2010 at 03:37 PM

jkurkjia
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p.14 #11 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

jerrykur wrote:
Gust wrote:
Nathan, I think you-re right, but..
when my cam on a tripod, testing on a contrast static object, AI shooting, the AF is very chattering, not steady on the point.
its like te AF is constantly changing and searching

Isn't that how AI is supposed to work? If you leave your finger on the button you are asking it to constant recheck focus. With a stationary target that mean go off focus- recompute focus - set focus to new setting (which could be the same).

No, when IS is turned OFF and you are on a tripod with AI Servo AF enabled there should be zero hunting (after initial acquisition) if you keep the shutter button depressed; note, this is true only if both the lens and camera body don't have hardware issues.

One of my friends shoots college sports professionally; he experienced a total melt down during a football game using his 300 f/2.8 and 1DmkIIN. He brought the gear over to my house for testing and it turned out that while on a tripod static focus was perfect with either One Shot AF or AI Servo AF enabled. However, and this was really interesting, even though static focus (on a tripod) in AI Servo AF mode was perfect (as confirmed by my AF test fixture) something was vibrating and the resultant focus target picture had a very slight (not bad, just slight) smear, like a cloudy look to it (i.e. radial motion blur ... something was moving ... just a teeny tiny slight amount).

Anyway, outdoors with AI Servo AF mode enabled and while I was shooting a moving target (my buddy's car) the focus tracking error was in in the neighborhood of twenty (or more, who knows) feet; this confirmed his meltdown. The 300 f/2.8 was confirmed to be okay using my 1DmkII and the same moving car. After an overnight trip to Canon CPS found the issue with his 1DmkIIN body. It must have been a trivial fix because my buddy had the 1DmkIIN body on his doorstep in two days and it worked perfectly once again.

What I found interesting about my friend's 1DmkIIN issue was that you can have perfect acquisition in either One Shot or AI Servo AF modes and it means absolutely nothing in when in comes to tracking error in AI Servo AF mode (i.e. static AF error can be perfect but dynamic can be absolutely next-county horrible ... go figure).

Regards,

Joe Kurkjian

Edited on Feb 06, 2010 at 07:57 PM · View previous versions

Feb 06, 2010 at 03:38 PM

Gust
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p.14 #12 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Thanx Joe,
seems a very understandable explanation.
Tomorrow I've a shoot and I'll test the AI in the real world.
I don't know if a must be concerned, because this chattering [so much] I never noticed in my mark3 and markIIn body,s.

Feb 06, 2010 at 03:56 PM

Tom_W
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p.14 #13 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Frank Kearney wrote:
Isn't it just amazing that the manufacturer would present this product to us with this obvious problem, and we have to "clear functions", and "take out batteries", and all this other BS, trying to make their $5000. camera do what it was supposed to do out of the box. The biggest insult of all, is......silence.

A little like rebooting a computer after installing the latest software update. Except that you don't have to unplug the computer for 60 seconds while it is off.

I am convinced this is a Japanese cultural phenomenon, which we have seen repeated many times - if you don't admit the problem, there is no problem.....

JMO
Frank

No, it's not unique to the Japanese culture. Take a look at the majority of politicians in Washington and elsewhere. They seem to have the same ability to declare what is, and what is not a problem regardless of what people see out here in the real world.

Feb 06, 2010 at 04:22 PM

rd4tile
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p.14 #14 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

jkurkjia wrote:
jerrykur wrote:
Gust wrote:
Nathan, I think you-re right, but..
when my cam on a tripod, testing on a contrast static object, AI shooting, the AF is very chattering, not steady on the point.
its like te AF is constantly changing and searching

Isn't that how AI is supposed to work? If you leave your finger on the button you are asking it to constant recheck focus. With a stationary target that mean go off focus- recompute focus - set focus to new setting (which could be the same).

No, when IS is turned OFF and you are on a tripod with AI Servo AF enabled there should be zero hunting (after initial acquisition) if you keep the shutter button depressed; note, this is true only if both the lens and camera body don't have hardware issues.

Well mine chatters in that situation as well. So far it's taken perfect shots on static images in AIservo and my keeper rate is much better with BIF over the MKIII in spite of my playing with every AF custom function combination known to man during my shooting sessions.

So I have to question how you know (or think) this is a problem with the MKIV and not part of it's inherent design?

Feb 06, 2010 at 04:42 PM

Gust
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p.14 #15 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Well mine chatters in that situation as well. So far it's taken perfect shots on static images in AIservo and my keeper rate is much better with BIF over the MKIII in spite of my playing with every AF custom function combination known to man during my shooting sessions.

So I have to question how you know (or think) this is a problem with the MKIV and not part of it's inherent design?

that give me some confidence.
the chattering from my mkIV is more extreme as my mkIII and MKIIn body;s

Feb 06, 2010 at 05:31 PM

rd4tile
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p.14 #16 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Gust wrote:

that give me some confidence.
the chattering from my mkIV is more extreme as my mkIII and MKIIn body;s

If you want confidence go shoot it - You said it yourself in an earlier post - time for some real world tests!

And keep an open mind regarding settings, this isn't your MKIII or II. I'm at about 6K snaps right now and at least 5K of those were BIF. Only now am I starting to get comfortable that I have a handle on how the different functions affect the results. The hardest part for me is just giving the stock settings a chance after using the MKIII for 2 years.

Feb 06, 2010 at 05:51 PM

Gust
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p.14 #17 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

thnx RD4tile,
that give me even more confidence.
I'll start with standard settings on Cfn III

Feb 06, 2010 at 06:23 PM

mdbassman
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p.14 #18 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Gust wrote:
mdbassman wrote:
Alan321 wrote:
I thought I had reset my camera completely by removing both batteries and also doing a camera reset but the old My Menu functions were still there and so was the AF MA settings. Just what do you have to do to completely restore a 1D4 to original condition ?

- Alan

Alan, I received this "how to" from a very reliable source who knows his equipment and Canon.
1) remove both the "watch battery" AND the main battery for at least 45 minutes.
2)check to see that date, time....is all rest to default(not what you set)
3)make sure that all Cfn are as should be ie default no blue settings
4) make sure AF point is working and sharp on a stationary object preferrably with/on a tripod and that assist points are not interferring..
5)try AI Servo tracking w/default settings.

Good Luck!
I am still working on my upgrade problem.
Dan

Dan,
I did remove the 2 battery's, waited about 1 hour, put back the battery's, but the only thing that was rested, was the date and time.
All the other settings where still there.
Whats going wrong?

Well all mine at least reset but still may have some problems. We are digging out from a 30" snow storem and it is still coming down.
I will try something later and let you know.
So the Cfn never returned to default eh?? Retry as long as you can...
I have a case# at Canon CPS and I suggest you do the same.
Dan

Feb 06, 2010 at 06:56 PM

jkurkjia
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p.14 #19 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

Guys, if it's not completely broken now but you can hear the AF system chattering then it will slowly break down (i.e. something will wear out) ... eventually ... guaranteed.

Audible vibrations, especially if they are of a continuous nature are not a good thing in electro-mechanical servo systems. The issue causing vibrations could be (1) a bad overall design and the system is somewhat oscillatory or (2) there is a bad component (maybe too much dead-band making it impossible to drive the servo to a true null) in conjunction with excessive AF system noise.

Regards,

Joe Kurkjian

Feb 06, 2010 at 08:10 PM

larrytowell
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p.14 #20 · Mark IV Firmware 1.0.6 problems

rd4tile wrote:
jkurkjia wrote:
jerrykur wrote:
Gust wrote:
Nathan, I think you-re right, but..
when my cam on a tripod, testing on a contrast static object, AI shooting, the AF is very chattering, not steady on the point.
its like te AF is constantly changing and searching

Isn't that how AI is supposed to work? If you leave your finger on the button you are asking it to constant recheck focus. With a stationary target that mean go off focus- recompute focus - set focus to new setting (which could be the same).

No, when IS is turned OFF and you are on a tripod with AI Servo AF enabled there should be zero hunting (after initial acquisition) if you keep the shutter button depressed; note, this is true only if both the lens and camera body don't have hardware issues.

Well mine chatters in that situation as well. So far it's taken perfect shots on static images in AIservo and my keeper rate is much better with BIF over the MKIII in spite of my playing with every AF custom function combination known to man during my shooting sessions.

So I have to question how you know (or think) this is a problem with the MKIV and not part of it's inherent design?

+1

I think we immediately scrutinized this body compared to our experience with the Mark III. I never had a problem with the Mark III, so I didn't start out expecting a problem. I also, as the white pages suggest, started shooting the Mark IV straight out of the box, and then started to learn how the other settings worked under specific circumstances.

It is really easy to over-scrutinize anything, be it man or machine, when it has let us down before.

As for the focus jumping around when pointed at a static object (wall, etc.) My camera does that as well. We have it set up to "search" for the perfect AF. In that scenario, it is doing its job. It will do the same, when set up as described when you focus on a person in a portrait setting. You are asking the camera to "Keep and Acquire" AF in a moving situation, when in fact, you are shooting something static.

Just as a "one shot" AF fails when shooting a subject moving to or away. The AI Servo is telling the AF to search for a moving subject. I don't think it is any more than that. When you pull the trigger in that situation, the shot is actually focused spot on. (at least on mine)

The earlier shot of a bird in the tree at 8.0 was extremely OOF. That is definitely not right. Now if the MA had been adjusted one way or the other in an extreme manner, as I have seen posted with some combinations, that might explain it. Other than that, I would expect that there is a definite problem with that body.

These cameras are built by man and machine. To that, I say that not every camera will be perfect. There will be a "bad nut" in the bunch here and there.

I have shot relatively few shots with my Mark IV (300 or so) because of the weather, but the tests I have performed on moving objects have been excellent. To that point I must add that my camera shipped with 1.0.6 version already installed. Shipped Jan. 28th from Adorama.

I think we are simply over-scrutinizing this body. Yes, there are going to be a few bad apples in the mix, but that is true of anything manufactured... just ask Toyota, one of the best car manufacturers on the planet.

I hope that each of you with problems are able to get them worked out QUICKLY! If you have changed the settings at all, whether to match your Mark II or just tweaking it, and something is wrong, I would suggest resetting to factory settings, starting over as if you just opened it. (I know that is hard) If that doesn't fix it, send it in to CPS, get a case number and let Canon sort it out.

For those who have sent their cameras in, please let us know what CPS did to fix it, and the results of that fix. In a community like this, we are able to gain powerful knowledge that was unheard of pre 2004.

United we stand...

I hope I am right in my suspicions about the Mark IV. I can't imagine Canon allowing cameras to leave the factory without it being right. As for the FW update, it happens all the time when you are talking about software. If you can make it better by uploading new instructions to the computer, then by all means, do so.

Okay, I am off my soap box...

I sincerely hope that all of my Canon friends get swift results with any issues around the MarkIV. It would be suicide to Canon in todays market to put out another AF debacle as was seen with the Mark III.

Best to you all,
-Larry

Feb 06, 2010 at 08:35 PM

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