Model Mayhem

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Archive 2010 · Model Mayhem

Ian Bower
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p.1 #1 · Model Mayhem

I joined Model Mayhem this week - and was browsing through the models in my area.

Was wondering if someone could give me some hard fast tips and pointers about working with models (as in, socially, not photographically).

What I mean is - Some of them say TFCD and TFP. I figured out what those meant, but some say "Let me know if I should bring my own outfits" and a few other things that struck me as odd -

I'm looking for a model to practice my photography on - a day of just shooting somewhere. I don't want to worry about what she is wearing (yet). I don't want to pay anyone, but I am MORE than happy to trade for portfolio shots.

Should I be looking somewhere besides Model Mayhem for this type of model?

(Half of these girls seem like they wont get infront of a camera unless they are naked anyway - and I don't mean tastefull nudes, or inplied nudes, or even pinups. I mean - bordering on porn)

I know MM has a forum. I like you guys better.

Jan 30, 2010 at 08:30 PM

Tony Brown
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p.1 #2 · Model Mayhem

just be honest and up front with them...i was a member of onemodelplace.com when i first started out. to me it was more of a pain in the arse then what it was worth. I had an easier time finding someone to photograph in person.

just remember, if you can make a "girl next door" beautiful, than you are doing the right thing. most clients aren't Vogue models or wanna bees.

good luck anyhow...hope you post some images.

Jan 30, 2010 at 08:47 PM

Fred Bruche
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p.1 #3 · Model Mayhem

I've been on MM for some time now and I agree that it's a mix bag of truly beautiful girls that have some experience in modeling/posing (or potential to be models) and a whole lot of wanna be models that have very limited experience. In the latter case, is they are not too shy but if they really want to get some decent pictures, then they almost have to resort to "erotic" shoots. But in the end, I believe you are reading this wrong, they don't want to get in front of the camera to get naked, they almost have to get naked if they want to get in front of a camera. Put an other way, there are a lot of photographers that are on MM to get pictures of half-naked girls (and I bet a lot of these "photographers" don't roam too much around here).
In my introductory writing when I contact a model I specifically mention that I want to take pictures of them, not their panties and that when we'll shoot they can keep their clothes on. Adding that you are contacting models because you want to test new photography equipment might help too. All the models that reply to my inquiries mention how refreshing it is to be contacted by a photographer that don't want them to get half-naked.
In short, I believe that if you introduce yourself the right way and that your MM portfolio does not show photos of half-naked girls, you should be able to find what you are looking for. Ask them to bring a few different outfits, they are happy to do that, I've never heard of a girl that has empty closets...
Happy hunting!
Fred

Jan 30, 2010 at 09:14 PM

CarminaF
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p.1 #4 · Model Mayhem

A number of models prefer nudity because shoot-worthy clothes are expensive. Naked is free.

By 'should I bring outfits?' they mean 'did you hire a stylist?'

You should be interested in what they are wearing. If you don't care, how useful can the pictures possibly be to the model? They aren't coming out to just fidget around, they expect to get good looking photos back. If you don't care about what they're wearing/how they look... why are you wasting their time? They want to look good... you should want to make them look good.

If you really don't want to put the extra effort in, you should be paying.

Jan 30, 2010 at 10:07 PM

joosay
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p.1 #5 · Model Mayhem

OP> I was pretty much on the same boat - I didn't want to worry about clothes yet but some of my friends critiqued my work and after a few times, it's been a recurring thing.

"Why is she wearing that, there?" "Her outfit doesn't match the location."

Jan 30, 2010 at 11:14 PM

jefferies1
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p.1 #6 · Model Mayhem

If you are going to spend time doing a shoot you should have nice fashions available from a local store to use.Lots of different wy to do that from trades etc. Sure you are at risk if damaged but at least the girl will look good. Also hair and make-up is required.Ii would not waste my time shooting without both.
And I should mention I am being paid and require that of my paying clients.

Jan 30, 2010 at 11:24 PM

Gianchetta
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p.1 #7 · Model Mayhem

Their portfolios speak for their manner in which they work well with photographers or not. If they look new, theres the risk of them not working well with you. If they have a descent port, they have some experience and you should be able to reference some of their images to them to give them an idea of what style of wardrobe you are looking at using so they know what to bring. A LOT of the girls on there dont seem to be doing it as a profession but rather as a free way to get photos. Which is fine, as long as it benefits you, but weigh out the pros and cons before you shoot any of them. I have photographed 4 from there and had good experiences with all of them. Hope that helps.

Jan 31, 2010 at 12:09 AM

Pfiltz
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p.1 #8 · Model Mayhem

Good Luck

Jan 31, 2010 at 12:18 AM

RianFlynn
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p.1 #9 · Model Mayhem

For the most part, Model Mayhem is a joke. Plenty of naive girls with hopes of being professionals matched with middle-aged self-proclaimed "photographers" to take advantage of them.

On the other hand, i have found some decent last minute makeup artists in the LA area using it.

Jan 31, 2010 at 01:22 AM

DavidJBurger
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p.1 #10 · Model Mayhem

RianFlynn wrote:
For the most part, Model Mayhem is a joke. Plenty of naive girls with hopes of being professionals matched with middle-aged self-proclaimed "photographers" to take advantage of them.

I agree. I only joined because a friend asked me if I would. I get a chuckle when I read the forums over there. Oh, I have to laugh at the amount of nudity on that site too. Sorry but some of the "models" need to keep their clothes on.

Jan 31, 2010 at 01:55 AM

Tekmuse
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p.1 #11 · Model Mayhem

I have a question related to this.

I don't have my own studio space, and it would be completely weird (maybe even freaky) to ask girls to come into my home if I set up the lighting gear there. Plus I'm sorta protective of my home space.

So in order to try & start my own portfolio, I've used a couple of MM-type groups - I think MM might actually be one of them - to get shooting. Both times, I had to pay to be one of the shooters and get studio time, and the models were provided.

My question is: what's the normal courtesy / good will arrangement afterward? The girls all seem to expect to get pics out of this, even though they were paid (in some cases, probably not much, but they were still paid) and I was paying to do the shoot.

- I'm reluctant to give them prints, as this would cost me even more money.
- I'm downright opposed to giving them hi-res files for obvious reasons.
- Do I give them lo-res / watermarked files? If yes, any size guidelines (I mean in pixel dimensions)?
- Do I just point them to my site and let them pay for the ones they want?

I have no idea what's normal or expected, so I'd be very grateful for your feedback - thanks!

Jan 31, 2010 at 02:12 AM

friscoron
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p.1 #12 · Model Mayhem

I'm not a big fan of ModelMayhem. Like the others have mentioned, it's full of girls who mostly think they're going to be the next big thing. You have to wade through those to find the few who are doing it just for the fun of it.

Too many of them have no-shown on me, too many just wasn't able to carry themselves in front of a camera.

Having said all that, it can be a good resource for you to work with models who can't really have that high of an expectation of you. You just have to be careful, otherwise you'll be wasting a lot of time.
Ron

Jan 31, 2010 at 02:17 AM

this is me
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p.1 #13 · Model Mayhem

It doesn't really matter how you approach them. 80% of them will cancel or never show up.
Sorry for being so negative here but it's a fact that you need to be aware of.

Jan 31, 2010 at 02:19 AM

friscoron
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p.1 #14 · Model Mayhem

Tekmuse wrote:
So in order to try & start my own portfolio, I've used a couple of MM-type groups - I think MM might actually be one of them - to get shooting. Both times, I had to pay to be one of the shooters and get studio time, and the models were provided.

My question is: what's the normal courtesy / good will arrangement afterward? The girls all seem to expect to get pics out of this, even though they were paid (in some cases, probably not much, but they were still paid) and I was paying to do the shoot.

Tek, if the models were paid, then the deal is done. I might offer pics to one if I wanted to work with her on a TFCD basis later, but that's it. And if I did, it would be high-resolution edited JPGs. You said you wouldn't give them the high-res shots for obvious reasons, but the obvious escapes me. It is an MM (or whatever) shoot, you're not Ansel Adams (or you'd have a paid gig with pro models), and you're not on some fabulous exotic location. It's not like you're going to sell the rights to these images to Vogue Magazine.

Ron

Jan 31, 2010 at 02:23 AM

jfinite
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p.1 #15 · Model Mayhem

Wow, such negativity in this thread. I think MM is great, but it's not all butter. Couple of thoughts...

1. You don't have to shoot 'girls'. There are male models as well. I have found them to be slightly more reliable than female models, but they are probably outnumbered 10 to 1, so the numbers are skewed.

2. Be picky about who you shoot with. Understand that if a model's port contains three cell phone shots and two of her on some Motel 8 bed in some twisted contortion of a 'pose', she's prolly new. Prolly.

3. You may have to put up some money to get a few decent models to shoot to get your portfolio started. After you've shown that you can deliver, the models will start to come to you.

Jan 31, 2010 at 02:39 AM

rffffffff
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p.1 #16 · Model Mayhem

I just shot a model mayhem girl today because I needed a very specific shot for my website and I didnt have exactly what I needed. I posted a casting call on there and got about 7 responses. Two were from out of state with no intention of coming here and I wasnt going to pay travel, so those were out. The rest were relatively bad models with relatively bad portfolios and little experience. Keep in mind that I was asking for very specific clothing in the casting, so I am sure probably 80% of the models were ruled out by that...

long story short, one model came when she said she would and I didnt invite any of the others. I stupidly didn't specify exactly what I was offering for the shoot (I put negotiable in the casting and no one negotiated) time for high res files is pretty standard, and I told her I would give her 5 or 6 retouched files in high res.

I also shot a headshot for her, which I basically told her she needed desperately, (how many of those girls have five shots of their ass and no decent headshots!? its remarkable to me, but thats a side note)

The model herself was entirely inexperienced, completely useless if not for me directing her every move and muscle basically, and my wife thinks she was high, but I wasnt 100% convinced of that. I would not be surprised, though. She came in the clothes that I needed and she was there on time, and she looked like an unretouched version of the shots in her portfolio... I got what I needed and it wasnt terribly unpleasant. I really got basically what I expected, except I was a little surprised that she actually showed up.

If you are looking for shooting lessons, in some sense, or to gain experience, model mayhem can get you some experience with equipment, lighting, flow, posing, etc. Here's the thing, though... I HIGHLY recommend calling an agency and seeing who is available for what rate and hiring a real model. Working with people who know what they are doing will make you understand how a real model works and make the shooting go about 50 million times better. Its unbelievably different when you are shooting with someone who has a clue. That part you cant really learn from model mayhem, and really does require a different mentality than dealing with young girls who think they might want to be models someday.

If you set your expectations in the right place and have spare time, MM has its place, but dont think you are going to discover some great talent or create consistently great images with the talent that is there and willing to shoot for free.

I hope that helps!

Jan 31, 2010 at 02:49 AM

Tekmuse
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p.1 #17 · Model Mayhem

[Tek, if the models were paid, then the deal is done. I might offer pics to one if I wanted to work with her on a TFCD basis later, but that's it. And if I did, it would be high-resolution edited JPGs. You said you wouldn't give them the high-res shots for obvious reasons, but the obvious escapes me. It is an MM (or whatever) shoot, you're not Ansel Adams (or you'd have a paid gig with pro models), and you're not on some fabulous exotic location. It's not like you're going to sell the rights to these images to Vogue Magazine.]

you're not Ansel Adams

, I'm not?!

I should have been more specific. I'm opposed to giving away full-size images, as that's like giving away your copyright. Even if Vogue isn't buying(!) it's still my work.

Anything less than full size - well, that's why I was asking for feedback. I think I made it obvious that I'm new to this game, so please be patient.

If you give away a hi-res edited JPG, do you put your copyright tag on it?

Jan 31, 2010 at 03:01 AM

Ian Bower
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p.1 #18 · Model Mayhem

Thanks for all of the input folks. I'll take it all in.

I know a lot of you guys are more serious about model work than I am, so I understand your reactions to my lack of interest in their wardrobe. I also understand why it's important.

I guess what I am looking for, is someone who will come out and stand infront of my camera, while I practice using my equipment and lighting.

Most people need to be incented to do something like that, so I figured a new model (or wanna-be model) would be intersted because I could give her photo's

I am not an awesome photographer, but some of the stuff I saw on that website was just BAD.

I've gotta be a medium fish in a small pond their lol.

Thanks again everyone. As usual I can count on the folks here to give me the answers I need to hear.

Jan 31, 2010 at 03:15 AM

Fred Bruche
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p.1 #19 · Model Mayhem

Tekmuse wrote:

Anything less than full size - well, that's why I was asking for feedback. I think I made it obvious that I'm new to this game, so please be patient.

If you give away a hi-res edited JPG, do you put your copyright tag on it?

That's what Model Release Forms are for, specify that you will give them hi-res but they can only print for themselves (portfolio) and not for commercial use. And trust them, the vast majority is honest and actually pretty smart (i.e., they understand when you talk to them.

+1 to what jfinite wrote.

Jan 31, 2010 at 03:27 AM

Go4Long
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p.1 #20 · Model Mayhem

I found a TFP contract online that specifies that I will provide them with files minimum 400 X 600. And I have an epson 9900, so I tell them that if they want prints I can do them for them for a reasonable rate(3 8 X 10s on luster realistically costs me in around $3.50 to print). the contract also stipulates that any photos I provide them will be watermarked, and the photo is not to be modified or cropped in any way if they wish to use it.

I don't generally shoot portraits, but I've set up a shoot or two through mayhem in the hopes of getting practice.

Like the others in the thread have said though...you're not going to find the really experienced models on there...they get a couple shots for their portfolio, hopefully find a photographer that can provide them with a shot that will get them to the next level, or in a lot of cases they just get a couple pictures that they love and that was all they wanted so they move on.

Jan 31, 2010 at 03:52 AM

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