An investor is interested in me.

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Archive 2010 · An investor is interested in me.

Mitchel107
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p.1 #1 · An investor is interested in me.

And I'm going to ask you fine folks what do to with twenty thousand bucks.

Some back story:

A friend of mine I have known for almost thirteen years called me up the other day and started asking questions about my business. I told him I'm not taking bookings, that I had a rough spot and decided to close down for a while to get my ducks in a row. I told him about the processes of my workflow, how I like to charge and every other thing. He moved into questions like, 'if you were going to reopen, would 20K do the trick and what would you do with it'. I wasn't sure about how serious my friend was but I gave him the run down.

I told him I would need a gear upgrade, a marketing budget,some overhead for a cushion and some money to live on while I get started up again.

I haven't put any numbers together yet, but I'm figuring that will be the basic skeleton of what I need to do with it.

I believe that I'm going to round out my gear so that I have three 'twin' bodies with grips, add a fourth hotshoe flash, a new set of radio triggers, some softboxes, battery packs, an new camera bag and maybe a new lens.

That would leave my gear set looking like this:

(3)Pentax K7 with grips
(4) 540fgz flashes
(6) radio triggers
(3) small softboxes
(4) battery packs for the flashes
Pentax DA* 50-135 2.8
Pentax DA* 16-50 2.8
Pentax FA 31 1.8 LTD
Pentax FA* 200 2.8
A new tripod

If I shop right I can complete that kit for about $5,000 because I already have some of it.

15k remaining

My next step would be to go through the last five years of my wedding photography, pull out the best stuff and spend some dough on getting some nice big display prints for show. I'm thinking of maybe spending two grand on that.

13k remaining

Next, call around and get all of the marketing info that I might need to take care of, especially bridal shows. I'm going to estimate $1,000/show here in st. louis and set up as many as I can starting at the end of 2010.

I'm thinking 5k in shows and 2k on other marketing.

6K remaining.

I believe that would set me up in a pretty nice spot.

Now, this is my first brainstorm since I just got the call late last night to get serious about the investment. I told my friend ok but let's keep it professional; I'll put some numbers together and make a formal business presentation and he can see what he thinks and we can decide to go from there.

I'm also interested in what kind of return I should offer my friend but I'll be talking to my accountant friend about this as well.

Go ahead and shoot holes in it guys. 8)

And thanks for any input.
I'm also interested in what kind of return I should offer my friend but I'll be talking to my accountant friend about this as well.

Mitch

p.s. During the time of restarting my business, I'll have the chance to shoot for a couple of different photographers in St. Louis, so I'll have a bit of income throughout the process.

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:12 PM

ksmahgrts
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p.1 #2 · An investor is interested in me.

i don't understand. at all.

if you shut down your business to get back on track, why would some random friend want to just hand you 20k? if you're getting over a "rough spot" why would he assume you'll be profitable enough to make good on his investment?

this whole thread is just bizarre.

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:17 PM

liza
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p.1 #3 · An investor is interested in me.

1. Get rid of the Pentax gear. Just my opinion, of course, but you would probably be better off investing in Canon or Nikon, if nothing else but for the high ISO performance.
2. Invest in a website. A Flickr photostream probably isn't the best or most professional way to showcase your work.
3. Get some good quality sample albums. In other words, not Blurb or Shutterfly.
4. Be selective about the shows. We have two big ones in our area. And 17% of the vendors at one of them were...you guessed it...wedding photographers. I'm participating at the other one that only had 6 photographers signed up.
5. Invest in a workshop that focuses on marketing a wedding photography business.
6. Diversify. Wedding photographers in my area are a dime a dozen. I make more money shooting high school seniors and events and receive great word of mouth that has resulted in wedding bookings.
7. Most importantly, look at why you got into a "rough spot" in the first place.

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:28 PM

KJbruin
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p.1 #4 · An investor is interested in me.

You may want to consider selling the Pentax gear if you are interested in TTL radio triggers. I'm also a big believer in full frame, high Iso, fast primes which I don't think are Pentax's strengths though it's a very capable system. Also, consider a think tank belt system in addition to your new bag.

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:29 PM

Mitchel107
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p.1 #5 · An investor is interested in me.

Those are all great questions and I can understand you're confused. The input I'm looking for is some words of experience pertaining to the above scenario.

I'll answer your questions. I shut down my business to get back on track because I had a bad strategy with my workflow. I have been shut down for over a year and have spent that time shooting for someone else and redesigning the way I do business. My new plan will involve budgeting in much more outsourcing which will free up my time to do things like accounting, client relations, marketing etc.

The 'random friend' in question isn't random at all. He has been a friend of mine for over a decade and he has seen my business grow and change and he knows my passion for this job. He has faith in the business and myself and called me to show me by being an investor.

He won't be 'handing' me 20K, he will be investing. This means he will get a profitable return.

Thanks for your input.

Mitch

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:35 PM

Mitchel107
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p.1 #6 · An investor is interested in me.

KJbruin wrote:
You may want to consider selling the Pentax gear if you are interested in TTL radio triggers. I'm also a big believer in full frame, high Iso, fast primes which I don't think are Pentax's strengths though it's a very capable system. Also, consider a think tank belt system in addition to your new bag.

TTL is a weakness with Pentax flashes but I don't know the full details of this weakness but I'll do some research.

I have considered jumping to Nikon before. But I have done well on the Pentaxes that I have and don't know if I want to switch quite yet. I'm very comfortable in difficult situations with the Pentax.

I've shot on pretty much the entire canon line from the 10D to the 1Ds mark 3 (never the mark 4) and don't doubt that the camera performs very well.

My qualm with switching is this: with the five grand that I plan to spend on the camera upgrade will barely get my one body+lens.

The thinktank is a really good idea!! I usually pack a second small messenger type bag with me and throw another lens, cards and batteries in there. thinktank might be awesome.

Thanks!

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:41 PM

sboerup
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p.1 #7 · An investor is interested in me.

$20k in debt isn't small, especially if you have already shut down previously.

I agree on the Pentax, why even look at it?

Atleast you are dropping some good cash on Bridal Shows. Instead of signing up for a bunch of bridal shows at once, do 2 of them and see if its a viable way to market yourself before committing to others. Get all over facebook, new branding, new website. You have a fresh start here.

As an investor, a reasonable rate of return is probably going to be in excess of 15%.

Best of luck to whatever you do.

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:42 PM

Mitchel107
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p.1 #8 · An investor is interested in me.

liza wrote:
1. Get rid of the Pentax gear. Just my opinion, of course, but you would probably be better off investing in Canon or Nikon, if nothing else but for the high ISO performance.
2. Invest in a website. A Flickr photostream probably isn't the best or most professional way to showcase your work.
3. Get some good quality sample albums. In other words, not Blurb or Shutterfly.
4. Be selective about the shows. We have two big ones in our area. And 17% of the vendors at one of them were...you guessed it...wedding photographers. I'm participating at the other one that only had 6 photographers signed up.
5. Invest in a workshop that focuses on marketing a wedding photography business.
6. Diversify. Wedding photographers in my area are a dime a dozen. I make more money shooting high school seniors and events and receive great word of mouth that has resulted in wedding bookings.
7. Most importantly, look at why you got into a "rough spot" in the first place.

1. I don't generally shoot above 320 regardless of what system I'm shooting on.
2. YES! great idea. I actually shot the weddings of my IT buddy who builds computers and his brother who codes programming in return for a workhorse computer and a website. I'm just going to have to get on their ass about it now eh?
3.Yes perfect thank you.
4.good call thanks.
5. another good call.
6. three in a row.
7. i have been closed for a year going over the rough spot and smoothing out the problems involved with it.

Lots of great thoughts on this one.

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:44 PM

Chris Cooke
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p.1 #9 · An investor is interested in me.

dont engage in business with friends...it never ends well

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:52 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.1 #10 · An investor is interested in me.

I'd be very wary of taking 20k from a friend. If the friendship is important to you, it could be destroyed if his investment doesn't pay off.

Also, I'm not sure buying a bunch of new equipment is going to do -anything- for your business. Marketing will, for sure, but don't expect new gear to build your business if you've already got sufficient gear.

Jan 30, 2010 at 04:54 PM

lovinglife
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p.1 #11 · An investor is interested in me.

I would spend $10,000 on marketing and $10,000 on advanced photgraphy courses

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:02 PM

srclark
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p.1 #12 · An investor is interested in me.

I used pentax for quite a bit. P-ttl is not reliable. Some of the weaknesses I noticed with the 540 included chronic underexposure, even +1 FE on the body and on the flash (+2 FE) would not properly expose a bride in a white dress. This in situations where changing the flash to auto thyristor mode would result in a perfect exposure (so I knew it wasn't a flash power thing). The other issue I noticed was that in P-ttl the flash seemed incapable of measuring and providing just a a little bit of light for some scenes. If I was in manual mode on the camera and keeping my exposure just a stop below ambient, the flash was unable to fill the rest. I'd get a 1 stop underexposure, like the flash was contributing nothing, if I dropped my ambient exposure another two stops all the sudden the flash would pick up the ball and expose the room correctly.

In general I would guess that these issues were exacerbated by the generally clumsy 16 segment metering of the earlier bodies.

I found myself in a situation where I was looking at the K-7 and wondering if they had truly fixed the metering, flash exposure and the awful (truly, truly awful) autofocus. Then I asked myself why I was willing to gamble that the K-7 had fixed these issues when for the same price I could pick up a used, proven canon 5d.

My observations after a few months with Canon? Nikon might have slightly better flash system, but they're both much better than Pentax TTL. E-ttl is a dream compared to P-ttl.

Autofocus, I moved from a k10d to the 5d. The 5d is so much faster and reliable than the K10d. People complain about 5d AF and it makes me lol because the K10d was so much worse.

It makes me cry a little too.

Mitchel107 wrote:
TTL is a weakness with Pentax flashes but I don't know the full details of this weakness but I'll do some research.

I have considered jumping to Nikon before. But I have done well on the Pentaxes that I have and don't know if I want to switch quite yet. I'm very comfortable in difficult situations with the Pentax.

I've shot on pretty much the entire canon line from the 10D to the 1Ds mark 3 (never the mark 4) and don't doubt that the camera performs very well.

My qualm with switching is this: with the five grand that I plan to spend on the camera upgrade will barely get my one body+lens.

The thinktank is a really good idea!! I usually pack a second small messenger type bag with me and throw another lens, cards and batteries in there. thinktank might be awesome.

Thanks!

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:10 PM

Mitchel107
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p.1 #13 · An investor is interested in me.

srclark wrote:

It makes me cry a little too.

haha

That is great information about the flash exposure, thanks.

I'm a member of pentax forums and the current users say that the 540 and other flashes perform so much better on the K7. Also, as a test in the store I was giving the AF a workout and it will be fine for me. I'm coming from twin K10D's so I know about the AF...it's not very good, but it never has really given me trouble.

I'm going to go ahead with the K7s I believe, and sell both K10D's along with the ist*D and the non pro lenses that I have...

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:16 PM

Mitchel107
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p.1 #14 · An investor is interested in me.

TTLKurtis wrote:
[snip] I'm not sure buying a bunch of new equipment is going to do -anything- for your business. Marketing will, for sure, but don't expect new gear to build your business if you've already got sufficient gear.

I agree with you 100% but I badly need a gear upgrade and I have been refusing to bring my new workflow and marketing strategy to the market without this upgrade.

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:17 PM

CarminaF
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p.1 #15 · An investor is interested in me.

I think your friend is well meaning, but not a good businessperson if he thinks that sinking 20K into your photography business is a sound investment. Could be a friendship ender followed by a court case, easily.

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:24 PM

Mitchel107
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p.1 #16 · An investor is interested in me.

sboerup wrote:
$20k in debt isn't small, especially if you have already shut down previously.

I agree on the Pentax, why even look at it?

Atleast you are dropping some good cash on Bridal Shows. Instead of signing up for a bunch of bridal shows at once, do 2 of them and see if its a viable way to market yourself before committing to others. Get all over facebook, new branding, new website. You have a fresh start here.

As an investor, a reasonable rate of return is probably going to be in excess of 15%.

Best of luck to whatever you do.

I'm sticking with Pentax because I haven't outgrown them yet. I have planned on, in the future, switching brands if the gear holds me back at all. But as of now, the cameras I shoot on DO have slow AF [albiet accurate] and it never gives me a problem. They are NOT good at high ISO but I rarely shoot over 320 anyway so it's not an issue. The K7 will, however free me up to shoot a bit higher if need be.

I guess you would just have to understand that I enjoy shooting on the Pentax and my clients have always been happy with the product that I have enjoyed creating.

Thanks for the tip on not doing all the shows at once. I'm going to give myself a goal of doing ten weddings in 2011. 2010 is going to be the setup time when I'll be second shooting for friends while I get MJB DIGITAL put back together. I'm thinking two or three shows, word of mouth and the website will get me to my goal. If not, I can always add a couple of shows down the line eh?

I really like the idea about feeling out the shows.

Thanks for the info on the return rate for investments AND for the good tidings.

8)

Mitch

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:24 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.1 #17 · An investor is interested in me.

By the way... I recommend crunching the numbers before doing -anything-

If your numbers are anything like mine, you'd have to do a lot more than just 10 weddings to even break even considering your mortgage, taxes, and other expenditures. Not only do you need to get a return on your friend's investment, you need to support yourself in the meantime.

I'd start shooting family portraits etc. as well if I were you. Those are actually easier money than weddings, I've found, in terms of the amount of time spent per dollar earned.

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:38 PM

Mitchel107
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p.1 #18 · An investor is interested in me.

TTLKurtis wrote:
By the way... I recommend crunching the numbers before doing -anything-

If your numbers are anything like mine, you'd have to do a lot more than just 10 weddings to even break even considering your mortgage, taxes, and other expenditures. Not only do you need to get a return on your friend's investment, you need to support yourself in the meantime.

I'd start shooting family portraits etc. as well if I were you. Those are actually easier money than weddings, I've found, in terms of the amount of time spent per dollar earned.

I agree about the numbers. I actually am working on a spreadsheet right now. I'm going to detail what my initial investments are along with projections of money earned and future spending.

I'll consider raising my goal, which shouldn't be a problem. I'll make that goal based on what I need for annual income, and make more decisions from there.

I agree about the portraits as well, thanks.

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:41 PM

Mitchel107
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p.1 #19 · An investor is interested in me.

epuja wrote:
I would spend $10,000 on marketing and $10,000 on advanced photgraphy courses

DUDE but I NEEEEEED the gear! XD

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:43 PM

jdben622
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p.1 #20 · An investor is interested in me.

As an investor, I'd want my $$ returned in 2-3 years. There is a very high risk involved with this venture. Most of your money is going to initial marketing which will be worthless if the venture fails. There is a small amount of money going into highly depreciating physical assets that could be liquidated if you fail. I'd want a 20% return minimum. So the question is...will your fresh-start photo business generate enough income that you will have $32K profit left over to pay me after 36 months? If you're planting your seeds in 2010 and working towards 10 weddings in 2011, you'd better blow up in 2012!!

Jan 30, 2010 at 05:49 PM

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