Workshop help....How many days

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Archive 2009 · Workshop help....How many days

Rick Denham
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p.1 #1 · Workshop help....How many days

et al

I will be putting on an off camera flash workshop towards the end of February. my question to ya'll is that if you were going to attend a workshop such as this, would you want it to 1 day or 2 days. We are not going to be concentrating on just wedding stuff, but everything from business portrait to large group, and from speedlights to strobes. It will be a catered event either way. I was hoping to do 2 days but think it may be a bit much for everyone else.

Keep in mind the following. It will be in Niagara Falls (Canada) so there is a lot, and I mean a lot, to do if you stay the night.

I'm not trying to use this as advertising because I mean heck, I don't even have any thing ready for this yet. this is just simply a poll to determine the length of the class.

cheers
Rick

Dec 01, 2009 at 07:46 PM

jfnphotography
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p.1 #2 · Workshop help....How many days

If you do a 2 day class the cost to your students is a lot more because of hotel cost. It would have to be a real interesting class for me to spend 2 days. Check out www.andygreenwell.com he teaches classes on flash photography. Might give you some ideas. I did an outdoor lighting classes I had a fair turn out of 15 people. But didn't have a great location like yours.

Dec 02, 2009 at 01:46 PM

shatterkiss
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p.1 #3 · Workshop help....How many days

Is Niagara Falls in February really that great a location? You could train for the Iditarod up there.

Dec 02, 2009 at 02:00 PM

Rick Denham
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p.1 #4 · Workshop help....How many days

shatterkiss wrote:
Is Niagara Falls in February really that great a location? You could train for the Iditarod up there.

Uh yeah! about as much as you could train for it in NYC.
NYC avg snow fall - 4"
NF avg snow fall - 5"

Dec 02, 2009 at 02:16 PM

shatterkiss
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p.1 #5 · Workshop help....How many days

NYC's average snowfall doesn't stick and has melted by the next day with the exception of what accumulates at the curbs. We get maybe 3 occasions per year that have left any coverage by a couple of days later. We get hit with one big snowstorm every year, everyone freaks out and thinks it's the end of the world, then it's gone 5 days later. Upstate NY and Canada get hit with one big snowstorm every year and continue looking at it until late March.

Hey, I've spent significant winter-time in Rochester, Buffalo, Montreal, Vermont, Western Mass...I lived outside of Albany for the better part of 7 years and New England for 15. Just sayin' that Niagara Falls in February isn't a hub of outdoor activity.

Unless a workshop there was specifically-themed towards winter sports or the particulars of winter scenic/nature shooting I'd be looking for a great indoor location and a 1-day schedule, personally.

Dec 02, 2009 at 02:49 PM

Rick Denham
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p.1 #6 · Workshop help....How many days

Really, because I have lived here for 34 years. We are luckky in the Niagara Region to get 1 big snow fall per year, and it sticks for maybe 2-3 days at the most.
Cas in point, Buffalo just got dumped on Monday night with 4 inches, I wore a t-shirt to work on tuesday and there wasn't a lick of snow to be seen.
All the cities you have mentioned, Rochester, Buffalo, Montreal, not even close to our climate here.

To be more specifc the class will actually be in Niagara on the Lake who's weather is as follows.
"Niagara-on-the-Lake is located in the Great Lakes region. The climate of Niagara-on-the-Lake is moderate when compared to other Canadian communities. While cold in winter, the geographical attributes of Niagara-on-the-Lake ensure that the average temperature does not drop far below the freezing point. Moderate temperatures over the rest of the year ensure a growing season that is favourable to the local orchards and vineyards. "

To be honest, I could only hope for snow, as it will defintely give us the oppertunity to head outside and get some more interesting photo's than the usual greaan leaves and blue skies. Anyways, who even said the class was going to be outside, not me.

Dec 02, 2009 at 03:06 PM

shatterkiss
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p.1 #7 · Workshop help....How many days

Rick,

I'm not, nor was I, trying to be combative - more jokey than anything. And your comment of "so there is a lot, and I mean a lot, to do if you stay the night." read to me like you weren't planning on keeping the workshop locked up in a conference room or studio somewhere...my mistake if that was a misinterpretation.

But still, I'm coming at this from the perspective of a potential attendee, so I think my feedback is relevant to you. A statement like "While cold in winter, the geographical attributes of Niagara-on-the-Lake ensure that the average temperature does not drop far below the freezing point." may be a good sell compared to other parts of Canada or the Great Lakes regions, but with other winter-time workshops being held in places like Phoenix, Florida, Southern California, New Mexico...see my point? Local orchards and vineyards sound lovely, and I've really enjoyed my visits to similar attractions in the Finger Lakes region, but they aren't really an option in February.

I'm more likely to travel for something that lasts 2 days than 1, but I'm less likely to travel for "not dropping far below the freezing point" unless that location is offering some other significant incentive.

That wouldn't be an issue were I local already, but if I had to travel more than a couple of hours for it and stay overnight I'd be looking for something where the location provided some kind of advantage relative to the workshop material - like being located in a rental wedding venue for the wedding-related portions, for instance. Or controlled and private access to a ski mountain or hockey rink for winter sports-related stuff. I'd think that would provide me valuable hands-on experience that I might not be able to get elsewhere.

That's just my perspective on your question.

Dec 02, 2009 at 03:24 PM

davenfl
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p.1 #8 · Workshop help....How many days

Rick Denham wrote:
Really, because I have lived here for 34 years. We are luckky in the Niagara Region to get 1 big snow fall per year, and it sticks for maybe 2-3 days at the most.
Cas in point, Buffalo just got dumped on Monday night with 4 inches, I wore a t-shirt to work on tuesday and there wasn't a lick of snow to be seen.
All the cities you have mentioned, Rochester, Buffalo, Montreal, not even close to our climate here.

To be more specifc the class will actually be in Niagara on the Lake who's weather is as follows.
"Niagara-on-the-Lake is located in the Great Lakes region. The climate of Niagara-on-the-Lake is moderate when compared to other Canadian communities. While cold in winter, the geographical attributes of Niagara-on-the-Lake ensure that the average temperature does not drop far below the freezing point. Moderate temperatures over the rest of the year ensure a growing season that is favourable to the local orchards and vineyards. "

To be honest, I could only hope for snow, as it will defintely give us the oppertunity to head outside and get some more interesting photo's than the usual greaan leaves and blue skies. Anyways, who even said the class was going to be outside, not me.

Perhaps you like the weather but the following is not attractive to people going to seminars in February. With Southwest and Airtran a ticket to Florida is as cheap for someone as ticket to Buffalo.

Niagara Ontario February
Average high 32°F 0°C
Average low 17°F -8°C
Average percep 2 in

I used to tell people the weather in Wisconsin wasn't bad in the winter for the 30+ years I lived there until I moved to Florida and learned better. Best of Luck.

Dave

Dec 02, 2009 at 03:32 PM

Rick Denham
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p.1 #9 · Workshop help....How many days

Undestandable guys, about the travel thing, to be honest though, I wasn't expecting anyone outside of the Toronto, Buffalo, Rochester area (basically driving distance) attending. It's the first time the workshop has been put on, and even though Pocket Wizard, Sekonci, Honl, & Ray Flash are all sponsors, I'm not expecting that big of a draw for it.

Glad to hear your thoughts on it though, and maybe as the class grows, it will have a second one put on in the summer. Only problem is our wedding season, save for a few more popular shooters, goes from May to October, and trying to do a workshop then is just in my eyes suicide.

Cheers
Rick

Dec 02, 2009 at 04:35 PM

deepbluejh
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p.1 #10 · Workshop help....How many days

I would probably make it an all day gig with a lunch break. Two days is really a stretch due to the additional cost to the attendees.

Dec 02, 2009 at 05:39 PM

cgardner
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p.1 #11 · Workshop help....How many days

If you want to target established wedding pros hold the seminars during the week when they have downtime.

If you want to target the hobbyist with a 9-5 job interested in learning how to do weddings as a part-time gig do a one-day seminar on a Saturday. There are limits to how much students can absorb and if you try to cover too much ground you'll get bogged down and they will go away confused. So focus on a few key lighting / posing skills and "big picture" concepts they can take away with them and make their work incrementally better and put it in perspective. By bigger picture, I'm thinking back to my experience learning to shoot weddings with Monte Zucker; learning the logistics of shooting a wedding and winding up with a complete and cohesive visual photojournalistic narrative with various points of view rather than a collection of random shots. Something along the lines of: A technique oriented 1 to 1-1/2 hour demo followed by a break, then let them shoot a model you set up for an hour so they go away with something tangible. Shooting without any feedback is a waste of time, so when you break for lunch C&C their photos while they eat. After lunch do another hour or so discussion of the "bigger picture" aspects like logistics and storytelling, then open it up for Q&A.

Chuck

Dec 02, 2009 at 05:47 PM

Micky Bill
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p.1 #12 · Workshop help....How many days

While you can fit a lot into one day, you need 100% more info to fill the second day. Adding up all the extra costs (time, food, booze, hotel) for the attendee, it better be worth it.

Arguing about which is less colder in February, NYC or Niagara Falls

To be honest anything north of Tennessee in the winter is too cold for me.

Dec 02, 2009 at 05:58 PM

jwp721
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p.1 #13 · Workshop help....How many days

Micky Bill wrote:
While you can fit a lot into one day, you need 100% more info to fill the second day. Adding up all the extra costs (time, food, booze, hotel) for the attendee, it better be worth it.

Arguing about which is less colder in February, NYC or Niagara Falls

To be honest anything north of Tennessee in the winter is too cold for me.

Oh but it's a dry cold.... or is it a wet cold?

One day would be my suggestion.

John

Dec 02, 2009 at 06:29 PM

Rick Denham
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p.1 #14 · Workshop help....How many days

Micky Bill wrote:
Arguing about which is less colder in February, NYC or Niagara Falls

To be honest anything north of Tennessee in the winter is too cold for me.

My parents live in Scottsdale, so trust me I feel the same way.

Dec 02, 2009 at 06:31 PM

derek walter
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p.1 #15 · Workshop help....How many days

Well, lets all go to your parents house then!

I'd do two days for sure, but one day is good as well. Obviously, either would have to be worthwhile regardless. And judging by your website I'd be in for a workshop. I'll take my wife for the weekend, she'd have no problem spending some money up there.

Please PM me when you have more details.

Dec 03, 2009 at 01:02 AM

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