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Archive 2009 · Kayaks
  
 
gcuff
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p.1 #1 · Kayaks


Thinking of getting a kayak to check out the mangroves here in Cayman. I have seen a number of photos from people using them here on FM. Has anyone got any recommendations please.

Thanks

Geoff


Nov 21, 2009 at 09:46 PM
senator16
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p.1 #2 · Kayaks


I asked that same question some time back.

A frequent contributor to this forum, Tim Kuhn, sent me this link that was very helpful..
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/705083/

Mike


Nov 21, 2009 at 10:11 PM
Tim Kuhn
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p.1 #3 · Kayaks


Thanks for posting the link Mike I don't have to dig it up

Geoff are you asking for recommendations for a boat? If so a bunch of us have Wilderness Systems Pungo 120's. They are a nice stable boat with a roomy cockpit. I'm sure there are plenty of others that is just what I have and like.

Tim


Nov 21, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Ed Robertson
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p.1 #4 · Kayaks


Check out Wilderness Kayaks and get the Commander 120 and you could also install the Scotty Stablizers for extra safty. I have the Wilderness Pungo 120 and it is super stable and going to get the Commander next month. Also check out the U Tube Videos showing people standing up in the Commander 120. But I sure like the Pungo 120 in Spruce Green or Camo as earth tones are better for wildlife I think.

http://vimeo.com/7184083

http://vimeo.com/6952039

http://wildernesssystems.ning.com/video/full-commander-overview

http://www.stevesfishingsupplies.com/brands/scotty/Kayak_Stabilizer.html

For Photography I prefer the Spruce Green Or Camo Colour. You will wonder what took you so long to get one as I did . Ed


Nov 21, 2009 at 10:50 PM
surfnron
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p.1 #5 · Kayaks


Here's a great link for kayak reviews:

http://www.paddling.net/buyersguide/Kayaks.html?refer=GOOGLE_K

Several thoughts for consideration:
1) Wider is more stable, but slower, (and requires more effort to go a specific distance) - if you paddle by yourself, it should not be an issue. If you are with someone with a fast 'yak, it might be.

2) Most people who enjoy kayaking as recreation usually wind up getting a faster yak as they gain experience and confidence.

3) Your butt sits below the water line, so yaks are inherently more stable than canoes.

4) See if you can rent or borrow one to try it out - it might be great for you, or not your cup of tea.

As a side note, this spring I built a shelf big enough to hold a Pelican 1500 case. I added 2 cleats to the yak and use bungee cord to hold the shelf. Now the case with my gear sits on the shelf in front of me and is super easy to use.

Ron - working 60+ hours a week now, (and not happy about it)...


Nov 22, 2009 at 01:05 AM
Billhansen2003
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p.1 #6 · Kayaks


Surfnron's suggestions are right on target, I think. I've been a kayaker for - um - about 30 years, first whitewater and later on sea kayaking. Now, older and no longer fit enough for the big water, I also want something more stable, perhaps for photography. For photos, you do want stability! Width, about 23 inches at least. But don't get a "river pig" - a big, wide, plastic thing which will tire you out before you begin to have fun in it. Get something elegant. Try out several models.

Nov 22, 2009 at 01:37 AM
gcuff
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p.1 #7 · Kayaks


Thank you for the replies. Stability was a concern. It looks like everyone likes Wilderness so will check what's available locally. What about transporting. Are they light enough to be lifted on to the roof of a 4x4 by yourself?

Thanks again for the help.


Nov 22, 2009 at 11:53 AM
mpoole
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p.1 #8 · Kayaks


We have a pair of Necky Manitou 13's. They track well in open water for the length and are still manouverable in small rivers. Much faster than my brothers river boat, and the seat is adjustable for all day comfort. Weight is 45#. The only down side is that they can be a bit wet in wind chop, but that is what spray skirts are for!

Nov 22, 2009 at 12:05 PM
 



surfnron
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p.1 #9 · Kayaks


gcuff wrote:
Thank you for the replies. Stability was a concern. It looks like everyone likes Wilderness so will check what's available locally. What about transporting. Are they light enough to be lifted on to the roof of a 4x4 by yourself?

Thanks again for the help.


That depends... generally $ = heavy, $$$ = light, but that's just one thing you check when you look at a kayak. My wife could not put my kayak @ 45# on the roof, but I would have no problem.

Ron


Nov 22, 2009 at 02:50 PM
Ed Robertson
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p.1 #10 · Kayaks


What about transporting ?

Use a roof rack. Were there is a will there is a way . I put a furiture blanket on the trunk of my car and lift one end up and on my two back kayak saddles I put on wash mitts then I lift the back and slide it on and take off the wash mitts. Some use something to stand on but to have the freedom to go when you want you need to do things yourself. I have trouble lifting my yak all at once because I have a fused ankle so think of the easy way to make it happen I also have a yak cart in case I have to walk a ways to the water the yak store will have everything you need . Ed


Nov 22, 2009 at 09:21 PM
Two23
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p.1 #11 · Kayaks


I have two kayaks, depending on use. First is just a standard recreational kayak. It's 9.5 ft. long and 28 inch beam. I like the short ones because they are lighter and turn very quickly. I need them to be highly maneuverable. A longer kayak will track better on open water, but they aren't as concealable. That makes them a little less concealable.

My other boat is actually a duck boat. It's 10 ft. long and 34 inches wide. It's very, very stable. I actually hunt ducks from it and routinely fire a 12 gauge magnum from it without stability issues. It's drab green came and it's short length makes it very easy to hide in the cattles and marsh grasses. It can haul 450 pounds of gear and I've used it many times to haul lots of photo gear. I have built a frame that I can put a blind on it. This is useful for both hunting and photography. The particular one I have is by Castens Boats and is called the Puddler. Very tough little boat and very stable, but not as fast as my other kayak. For photography use, the hunting boats are outstanding for stability, design, capacity, and manuevrability.
http://www.carstensindustries.com/boats.html

Last spring wife & I rented a tandem sea kayak to poke around mangroves on FL west coast. The long length plus skeg helped it track on the open water, but it felt clumby in the mangroves. I've rented regular sea kayaks around Sanibel Island and also near Ding Darling in FL. I still greatly prefer the shorter boats for photography in these tighter environments.

For transporting, my duck boat weighs about 50 pounds, and I usually just haul it and my decoys in the back of my S10 pickup truck. The small kayak is no problem to lift onto a roof rack, even on our minivan. I greatly prefer the shorter boats because they are lighter to lift. I use a graphite-shaft paddle, with blades designed for power.

Some things I'll mention about kayaks in general. First, everthing inside will get wet. Used a dry bag or Pelican for camera gear, and keep it in there when not actually taking a photo. Second, try to not lash a bunch of gear on top of the hull. That makes them very top heavy and they will easily flipped. I once flipped my little kayak when I lashed a bag full of duck decoys to the top. Another caution is to remember that if you're in a camo boat you are invisible to any fast moving power boats. I would use an orange flag like bicyclists use. Also remember to stay off the water if you hear thunder. I use my boat in late season duck hunting, when the lakes are freezing over. Never try to paddle up and onto ice from the water. The ice will flip the boat over. Ice will build up on the boat hull when it's cold enough but I've never had a problem with that. I simply slap the paddle against the hull and crack it off. In cold water conditions I am careful to wear my 5mm neoprene chest waders plus camo/duck hunting life vest in case I hit some floating sheet ice and the boat is flipped. I've never had a boat flip when out with my camera, but I am careful. I have never flipped the duck boat, and I've had it out in some truly brutal winter blizzard conditions and with heavy loads (hunting ducks.)


Kent in SD


Nov 22, 2009 at 11:55 PM
gcuff
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p.1 #12 · Kayaks


The local dealer only has the Tango 120 which seems similar to the Commander 120. He will not be ordering from the USA until after Christmas and he will give me a good price on the Tango. Has anyone any ideas on the suitability of the Tango for photography in inland seas and mangrove estuaries?

Thanks


Nov 24, 2009 at 12:28 AM
PeeDeeDD
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p.1 #13 · Kayaks


I've been paddling since 1974 and shooting for about all the kayak companies that make plastic boats since the early '80s...including Wilderness Systems. I recently sold my Wilderness system boats and moved to Native Watercraft boats. I have an Ultimate 14.5, a Magic 14.5 and a Magic 12. The Ultimate is my favorite to photograph from. It is a very stable open boat that has a huge following in the fishing industry where most of the users stand while they fish. The hull is offered in a very natural olive drab that blends a ton better than the WS forest green. Native also has a very natural mid toned tan that blends great in marsh grass.
That being said...I do like the looks of the Wilderness System's Commander...they actually advertise it as being "the ultimate answer"....that should tell you how good the Ultimate actually is. The hulls are very similar but the WS boat has molded seats where the Native Ultimate has an extremely comfortable framed seat that can also be removed and serve as a camp chair.
Hull length is important but make sure you buy a hull that is sized for you. A 200lb plus person and gear needs a larger boat...so it is very important to go test drive one and load it the way you will use it. A 14' boat is faster but will not be as maneuverable as a 12' boat. It is easy to be cruising along and suddenly see 'that' shot and by the time you get your gear up you are by it. A shorter boat can be turned quickly to get the shot.
Loading...if you have a pickup, go to Harbor Freight and get their bed extender for $40...get the 53" model. Drag your boat up to it, lift one end and set it up on it, then go to the other end, lift and slide it in. Secure the boat and then use a safety orange highway vest you can also get at HF for about $5 and clip a carabiner to it...clip that to the end of the boat hanging off the end of your truck and you are good to go.
I have dry bags and Pelican cases. I like the Pelicans...I can get the camera ready, set it into the case, lay the lid down and fasten one clasp...and it is secure enough for the paddle drips and even if I dump...I never have...the case is water tight enough to keep the gear dry till I can secure the other latch...I've tested it just to make sure.


Nov 24, 2009 at 01:21 AM
Two23
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p.1 #14 · Kayaks


I haven't tried the Tango/Commander 120, but I looked at the specs. First, I see it's a sit-on-top. I personally don't like those for two reasons. First, they don't handle very crisply, and second they are the wettest riding type. Since I use my boats in early Spring and late Fall, that is important to me. I have used sit-on-tops several times, twice in Hawaii and once on Californy coast. For some reason I just couldn't get the seat adjusted and that affected my ability to paddle efficiently. And like I said, they handle like a 2x4. This one could be different, I don't know. I note it's 30 inch beam (width = beam) and that would make it pretty stable. Not one for paddling up against a strong current very far but there are compromises on every boat. My personal preference is for the sit-inside boats as I feel they offer better handling and more protection for my gear.

OP needs to decide on three things in boat selection. First is price. I agree the Wilderness System boats are very nice, but they are very high in price. You could conceivably buy a boat for under $300 that will get the job done. Second thing is do you want to paddle in tight places like mangroves, or more open water? If tight places, go for as short a boat as you can make fit. A 9-10 ft. is a good size for that but there are even shorter ones (the Otter?) I would get one with a flat bottom, for stability. If you are going more in open water, look for 12 ft. Not as maneuverable but tracks a little better. Third thing is color. Do you want to photo skittish wildlife or take landscape type shots? If you want to do some wildlife, go for a camo type color. You can add camo cloth to any boat with velcro, but it's not quite as effective. Keep in mind that camo boats are hard for other boaters to spot. Bring an orange flag on a pole. Finally, how much does the boat weigh? A thirtyfive pound 9 ft. boat is no problem for most people to hoist up onto a roof rack. A sixty pound boat is another story.

I love my kayaks and also use them for photography and "exploring". They get me into places others can't go. Many animals don't seem to recognize me as something dangerous, and that makes them a bit more approachable. (The ducks have certainly figured me out though! ) I ended up with two kayaks for different purposes. The 9 ft., 26 inch beam kayak is very light, very fast in the water, and turns quickly. It's easy enough for my 12 yr. old to paddle. My 10 ft. duckboat is sort of like a Jeep. It's highly maneuverable, fairly strong & light, and can haul a lot of stuff. More stable than a Jeep though.

One other thing I'll mention that hasn't come up is using a camera from a kayak. Tripods are useless unless you've grounded the boat against the mud or a sandbar. The boat will slowly drift & turn otherwise. Some of the duckboats have a way of running a PVC pipe through the hull on each end of the boat, which effectively pins the boat to the bottom of the lake (if shallow enough of course.) If you are just floating in the water here's something to keep in mind. When you stand on the ground and take a photo, your feet are braced against solid earth. In a boat you are NOT braced against anything solid. It's easy to look through a viewfinder and not keep your sense of balance. If you lean over too far, the boat will spin right over since there is no friction holding it upright. This hasn't happened to me, but I have seen it happen to newbies on Hawaii. The wider the boat the less likely this is. My 26 inch-wide kayak will do it, but my 32 inch duckboat probably won't.

For poking around mangroves where there's aligators, I suppose a longer boat might look more intimidating to a gator. Don't know how big a problem gators are for kayakers. Someone else will have to comment on that.


Kent in SD


Nov 24, 2009 at 03:56 AM
gcuff
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p.1 #15 · Kayaks


Kent:

Thanks for detailed replies. Thankfully I do not have to worry about either gators or ice! I would use it in the mangroves and canal systems. Sheltered water. I think I need to go and try one of these out and see what is comfortable.

I am concerned about weight. The Tango comes in at 67lb!. Perhaps I could slide it into the back of a 4x4 with the rear seats down and tie it in. >Luckily in Cayman there is never far to drive.

Regards to all.


Nov 24, 2009 at 11:49 AM
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