Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

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Archive 2009 · Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

burningheart
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p.1 #1 · Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

Decisions, decisions, what to take

5 days and 4 nights in Yellowstone Grand Canyon area in the dead of winter (December). Living the luxury of propane heated yurts and daily adventurers of cross country skiing/snowshoeing and site seeing. Snow coach transporation to areas further away from camp to ski and snowshoe.

Packing the essentials is easy (clothes, boots, etc)

The tough decisions what lenses and camera body(ies) to take.

Ideally lightweight so I can carry them when skiing, but then I always travel a little on the heavy side.

In Antarctica I was limited to with weight restrictions so it was a 1V, 5D, 17-40,50 (1.0),70-200 F4 Non IS and 400 5.6 worked well for me.

But since then my collection has grown and there are other options to consider and I can take a couple of extra lens. but skiing I would limit it to 4 maybe 5 lens.

Camera choices - 5D MKII only, 5D MKII and 5D MKI backup, 5D MKII and D700, 5D MKII and Pany G1

Lens Choices

Usable on any camera combination (Nikon mount)
Zeiss 21,25,35,50,100
Coastal Optics 60 APO
Voigtlander 40
Nikon 14-24, 85 Tilt+Shift

Usable Canon and G1
Leica 90 APO, 100 macro
Rokkor 58
Canon FD 150-600 - would carry in backpack, great for use with G1.

Usable Canon 5D only
Canon 17-40,50 (1.0), 50-200 L, 70-200 F4, 100 macro L, 400 5.6
Canon 17,24,45, and 90 Tilt+Shift
Canon 200 1.8
Voigtlander 125 APO

Usable G1 only
FD 7.5,14,17,24,50,80-200

Mainly shooting landscapes, with the outside chance of wildlife.

My old time favorite kit
Zeiss 21 or 25 and 35 or Voigtlander 40
Coastal Optics 60
Canon 50 1.0, 70-200, 400
FD 150-600

More practical because of AF zooms
Canon 17-40,70-200,400
Rokkor 58
Coastal Optics 60
Leica 90
FD 150-600

Canon T+S 17,24,45,90,17-40,70-200 - this kit makes me take my time and not do a bunch of point and shoot shots.

But then I still need to fit in the Voigt 125 and 200 1.8. The heck with just go buy a P+S and be done with it

Feel free to comment on what you would do.

Nov 03, 2009 at 09:35 PM

guyharrison
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p.1 #2 · Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

I have been this route many times, even led a photo group tour one winter. I most often travel by snowmobile and skiing. You will find the conditions MUCH harsher than Antarctica, but the beauty is easily comparable and truly magic. Winter is my favorite season.

My main suggestion is to focus on image making and not on gear. I strongly recommend leaving the fixed lenses behind. I shoot "alt" lenses (Zeiss, voigtlander) and truly love them but, for a trip like this, Canon offers zoom lenses that are unique and ideally suited, and have rock-solid construction and weather sealing. Every day will bring many shots of a lifetime and it is no time to take chances. If you are in windy and snowing conditions, both highly likely, the ability to shoot without changing lenses is essential. You also don't want to be rumaging in a bag when you are skiing only to drop a lens in 3foot deep powder.

My absolute, iron-clad recommendation: Purchase or rent a 28-300mm L. Couple that with a wide angle zoom of your choice (17-40 uses the same filter thread so very convenient there). I would not take the Nikon 14-24 with that huge exposed front element and no ability to use a polarizer of split grad filter Take two 5d2s for light weight and leave one lens on each. An EF 25 extension tube on the 28-300 will cover macro (but, not much macro in winter). This will cover the full gamut of landscape without ever having to expose a sensor to the elements. if you don't want the 28-300, take the 17-40, 50-200 and 4005.6. This will serve you very well and only need to change lenses if you want wildlife shots.

I will suggest from experience that you will probably end up shooting 90% of your shots with the 28-300. 300 is enough for most winter wildlife, which can allow a pretty close approach. 28 is actually wide enough for most scenics including the erupting geysers because you are on boardwalks at a distance (also more than wide enough for the canyon--are you going on a full moon if so DO NOT MISS the canyon by moonlight).

The 28-300's optical compromises (distortion and some CA) are fine because its sharpness is excellent. There are few straight lines and most landscapers want to avoid harsh high-contrast scenes. The lens' color rendition is very good. You also minimize the flaws with the ability to achieve perfect framing of your scene without cropping in post.

I have shot a 35-350 for over 15 years, all with perfectly publishable quality shots at every focal length. Don't forget techinque--tripod really helps, but for skiing the IS on the newer lens will be a godsend. Just tie your ski poles together for a makeshift bi-pod and it works great.

Just one illustration: I was snowshoeing Old Faithful basin. Got a nice scenic of a geyser with some bison grazing in the foreground. Something caught their attention and they looked up. Literally one second later I am getting close-ups of their frost-covered faces. This type of thing repeats and repeats in Yellowstone where the animals are very much part of the landscape. The 28-300 is absolutely unique in its capability, and in its quality considering its range.

Nov 03, 2009 at 11:29 PM

burningheart
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p.1 #3 · Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

Thanks Guy, this is great information and lots to think about. I'll be looking into the 28-300 or 35-350. I'll be missing the full moon by one night it is full the day we leave the park, but it'll be plenty light enough for the previous night (assuming clear sky). I might give consideration now to my 24-70 being it has a big hood to protect the lens from snow, etc. I use the 24-70 a lot on rainy days for that reaon. The 17-40 would be great but thinking about what you say i the winds etc are blowing hard with lots of snow the 17-40 offers no protection. So likely would need to take both and play it by ear or just go with a 28-300 if I pick one up.

I've always wanted to g to Yellowstone in the winter and this looks like my opportunity.

Nov 04, 2009 at 02:21 AM

guyharrison
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p.1 #4 · Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

Hi. You can put a UV filter on the 17-40 if need be. You may actually use the ultra-wide focal lengths quite a bit less than you might expect.

It is actually even better to be at the Canyon a couple of nights before the full moon because it is already up before sunset. That means you can start shooting immediately when darkness falls--the Canyon is no place to be out late (it got to -32F when we were snowmobiling back to Mammoth). You have a great asset in having the Yurts close by. Because of the extreme risk (as you can see from the above), very few people ever attempt this and we are lucky to have pulled it off without incident twice. Be careful, never go alone, if this is your first extreme winter experience go with an experienced guide, have your warmest clothes, and above all because your life might depend on it-- have back-up transportation arranged if you don't return by a specified time.

In winter, the Canyon is completely in shadow during the day because the sun is so far to the south. Not exciting shooting at all except for the frozen falls and December might be a little early for the full freeze-up. The moon, however, follows the track that the sun would take in the summer and, by moonlight, the Canyon is fully lit with all the brilliant yellow colors showing. To see that bright vastness, on a still, silent night, is a peak experience for anyone's lifetime. Research moonlight exposures on the internet for a starting point, and use exposures longer than 5 minutes to capture star trails.

if you have the funds, go for the 28-300. I will be upgrading to that. It is optically better and what you gain on the wide end is much more beneficial than the relatively small loss on the tele end, not to mention the excellent IS whch the 35-350 does not have. As I said, from experience, this will be your "go to" lens pretty much the whole trip. The 24-70 is a good option if you are really traveling light (ie skiing) with just one lens, but I would really try to make room for the 28-300 instead even then.

I don't want to dampen your "alt" enthusiasm, which I share, but this trip just isn't the place for fumbling (ever try it with mittens or snowmobile gloves?) to constantly change single focal lengths, or risk older, non weather sealed lenses, etc. After all, it is the shots that matter and you will be shooting a lot, and the equipment that makes shooting easier is the best you can have. Don't worry about "P&S" stigmas, as I think you will find the ability to instantly compose in a variety of focal lengths quite addictive even after you come home.

You may very well find this journey even more compelling and unique visually than Antarctica.

You might luck out with warm, benign weather and want to shoot me for leaving behind your favorite lenses. I have always gone in late Jan-early Feb which is deepest winter. Still, for what it's worth, you can do this shoot perfectly well with those two lenses and probably even better than with an assortment.

Nov 04, 2009 at 02:58 AM

burningheart
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p.1 #5 · Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

The trip is through Yellowstone Expeditions so we will never be travelling alone. Being from Alberta cold weather is something I'm used to, -40F I have experienced many times, and know all the rules of dressing in layers, and watching for frost bite, wind chill factor etc.

There is no dampening of alt enthusiam or primes as I will still take a few but these will not be for ski trips, the ski trips will be the zooms unless there is a compelling reason to bring one but I will not plan for that. The plan now looks like 28-300 if I can get one prior to departure paired with 17-40 or 24-70 for skiing trips. Around camp or a snowshoing day or just a scenic day in snowcoach, I may use a couple of alts or primes dependent on weather and what we are seeing.

Your comments reminded me of my last day in Antarctica the weather was not cooperative for changing lenses so one camera had the 400 the other 70-200, and it worked fine for that days shooting, no lens changing and picking the lens best suited for the day. In otherwards keep it simple.

It will be a unique adventure in its own ways as Antarctica was in it ways.

Thanks for the bipod ski pole tip, never though of that.

Nov 04, 2009 at 06:19 AM

melcat
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p.1 #6 · Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

I've done a fair bit of snow camping and ski touring here in southern Australia, as well as having been to Antarctica's "banana belt" on a fairly standard 10 day ship tour. My experience also is that the conditions in the Victorian Alps were much harsher than I experienced as a tourist in Antarctica. I have also been told by a Canadian that he found the snow camping here less comfortable than at home because the sun does come out and melt the snow enough to drip water where you don't want it.

As far as the camping itself is concerned (and we used tents rather than an yurt) I would say take plenty of socks. One pair per day, one for sleeping and a spare pair. This is the single easiest thing you can do to make life more pleasant.

You ski, so you know you are supposed to fall backwards. Falling probably happens more here than in Yellowstone because the aforementioned sun often means lots of ice in the morning. But it does happen and for this reason my main concern when ski-touring with cameras is not weight but bulk. You don't want to be breaking your spine falling backwards onto some huge metal lens. If I can wrap the camera in plenty of clothing or a water bladder I'm happy.

My standard skiing camera has been an OM film body + 24mm f/2.8. The last time out I came close to losing a finger to frostbite fiddling with a misbehaving wheel chain, and shooting with gloves off earlier in the day might have set me up for that, so I'm leaning away from small cameras for skiing now. Of the gear you have, I'd take the Canon 5D + 17-40, mainly because there's no fiddly aperture ring. While I've been used to spot metering with the OMs, I bet I could just leave the 5D in Av mode and only have to work the shutter release and the rear dial for exposure compensation.

I can't advise on a wildlife lens as what we have here above the snowline tends to be small and nocturnal, but I would not be taking more than one longer lens in addition to the zoom.

I have never found changing lenses in snow to be a problem - just brush it off before it melts. If it's raining or sleeting, the lighting is never suitable anyway (at least here).

Nov 04, 2009 at 10:22 AM

jpeter
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p.1 #7 · Lens Decisions - Yellowstone Winter Excursion

I spend each winter in Grand Teton N.P. Ski touring most days. I keep one camera body set up for wildlife with a tele and one with a few different options for ski action or landscape. If your day is going to involve more time at elevation out of the valleys, you won't see much wildlife except for hares and ermines. My tele setup never comes with me if I am climbing anywhere.
For my average ski trek day, I used to carry 5D + 35 + 100 + 17-40 (just for UWA). 24-105 is taken on some days for ski action shots. I now have a ze21, so expect to carry 21, 35 & 100 for landscapes.

The 35mm prime gets the most use.

I carry my Xsi with a zoom if bad weather is expected.

jp

Nov 04, 2009 at 02:55 PM

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