5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

FM Forum Rules
Canon SLRs, primes, and zooms lenses reviews

FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 end

Archive 2009 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of th...

gdanmitchell
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #1 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

michael49 wrote:
Given such disparate opinions could it be that there are samples of the 5DII that show this issue and those that don't?

Or perhaps there are samples of forum posters who obsess over this stuff and those who don't? :-)

Nov 06, 2009 at 04:00 AM

veroman
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.5 #2 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

corndog wrote:
Just curious, but how far do you have to push it before you run into problems? If you're pushing it two stops, you certainly can't complain if the image goes down the tubes. I would probably draw the line at one stop, but in between is the grey area...

In my case, I rarely if ever have had to push exposure more than 0.5-0.8 in DPP and raise shadow levels to more than +2 to +3, if that. In fact, most of time I find myself darkening the shadows about -0.1 to -0.3. Once I convert the RAW file (either in DPP or Lightroom) and start working on the TIFF, I often end up darkening blacks even more.

Any exposure push beyond +0.8 in DPP is when I generally consider the shot not worth working on.

- Steve

Nov 06, 2009 at 04:38 AM

Daan B
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #3 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

veroman wrote:
I've looked pretty deeply into the pattern noise and banding phenomenon and can tell you this much: the 21MP Canon 5D II has been optimized for noise performance at high ISOs. The tradeoff was hidden banding and pattern noise at low ISOs.

I agree, but the banding/pattern noise isn't limited to low ISO's alone.

Nov 06, 2009 at 07:44 AM

Daan B
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #4 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

Nov 06, 2009 at 07:49 AM

Daan B
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #5 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

veroman wrote:
corndog wrote:
Just curious, but how far do you have to push it before you run into problems? If you're pushing it two stops, you certainly can't complain if the image goes down the tubes. I would probably draw the line at one stop, but in between is the grey area...

In my case, I rarely if ever have had to push exposure more than 0.5-0.8 in DPP and raise shadow levels to more than +2 to +3, if that. In fact, most of time I find myself darkening the shadows about -0.1 to -0.3. Once I convert the RAW file (either in DPP or Lightroom) and start working on the TIFF, I often end up darkening blacks even more.

Any exposure push beyond +0.8 in DPP is when I generally consider the shot not worth working on.

- Steve

As always this discussion should end with the conclusion that: it really depends on what, how and under what conditions you shoot and post-process, if the 5D2 banding/pattern noise will be an "issue" for you or not.

Overall, the 5D2 is a cam that delivers excellent results. Especially at high ISO's. But you will have to be aware of its limitations.

I hope that these "discussions" will give people insight in wether the 5D2 will be suitable for their type of shooting or not. And that it will give people who suffer from this "issue" solutions how to deal with it... And I hope these solutions disgress beyond "if you expose correctly, there is no issue"... because it isn't THAT simple:

- There are other cams that produce results without banding under the same conditions/PP treatments
- Even if you expose correctly for the highlights, opening up shadows (because you couldn't use flash) may expose it
- And even the best of photographers sometimes screw up exposure (and that would be considered user error)

Nov 06, 2009 at 08:22 AM

mttran
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #6 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

No logical for whatever you have said/denied about 5D2 issue. It depends on what your shooting style. Your own reasons are not true at all cases...the 5D2 does have some DR and weak AF issues...and why we keep debate these... this is nonsense...

here is one of test shots and i have plenty if you want more

minus 2

This image is copyrighted by the owner

minus 1

zero

plus 1

plus 2

We should help each other to get canon fix this 2001 noise instead of choking our breaths. You all scare people away, the one who really needs your help. Why you do that

Let's me guess - you might refuse to fix your cam even canon has 5D2 recall, don't you

I wish i have some of your wordy talents

YES - GIVE US ALL A BREAK, WOULD YOU

Edited on Nov 06, 2009 at 07:38 PM · View previous versions

Nov 06, 2009 at 11:00 AM

vpk24_astro
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #7 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

mttran wrote:
No logical for whatever you have said/denied about 5D2 issue. It depends on what your shooting style. Your own reasons are not true at all cases...the 5D2 does have some DR and weak AF issues...and why we keep debate these... this is nonsense...

here is one of test shots and i have plenty if you want more

minus 2

This image is copyrighted by the owner

minus 1

zero

plus 1

plus 2

We should help each other to get canon fix this 2001 noise instead of choking our breaths. You all scare people away, the one who really needs your help. Why you do that

Let's me guess - you might refuse to fix your cam even canon has 5D2 recall, don't you

I wish i have some of your talents

YES - GIVE US ALL A BREAK, WOULD YOU

How about you just sell it and buy something else? 5D2s are still pretty hot.

Nov 06, 2009 at 12:34 PM

mttran
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #8 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

vpk24_astro wrote:

How about you just sell it and buy something else? 5D2s are still pretty hot.

i will feel guity if i dump this to someone. This is our 3rd vacation body after exchanged it twice. They all behave the same way, hopefully canon has them fix in next f/w update.

Nov 06, 2009 at 12:38 PM

mttran
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #9 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

Dawei Ye wrote:

...And simple things like night photos at ISO 100 show a lot of noise in the skies (no push whatsoever):

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This is how radiation cloud look like - why you can't see it - i really don't know - there are more of this in best canon shots thread...and pbase...

one more, maybe this helps....

minus 2

This image is copyrighted by the owner

minus 1

zero

plus 1

plus 2

ugly isn't it

Nov 06, 2009 at 02:25 PM

n0b0
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #10 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

mttran wrote:
No logical for whatever you have said/denied about 5D2 issue. It depends on what your shooting style. Your own reasons are not true at all cases...the 5D2 does have some DR and weak AF issues...and why we keep debate these... this is nonsense...

We should help each other to get canon fix this 2001 noise instead of choking our breaths. You all scare people away, the one who really needs your help. Why you do that

Let's me guess - you might refuse to fix your cam even canon has 5D2 recall, don't you

Nov 06, 2009 at 02:40 PM

alundeb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #11 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

n0b0 wrote:

Are you sure that's not just your 5D2?

I was looking at this black frame comparison between 50D vs 7D vs 5D2 and even when the ISO200 sample was pushed by 6 stops, it's still virtually free of noise.

http://www.komar.org/faq/camera/canon-7d-versus-50d/black-frames/

Interesting link. The black frame noise is only part of the story.

However, if you want to see some difference, try ISO 1600. Pattern noise in the 5DII, even worse in the 50D, but virtually none in the 7D.

Nov 06, 2009 at 02:50 PM

n0b0
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #12 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

Still, if the 5D2 really is as bad as mttran's, the ISO200 sample should at least show some noticeable noise.

Yes, I noticed that. I just mentioned the ISO200 because that's the ISO of the photo with such a bad noise that mttran is showing in his post.

Nov 06, 2009 at 03:02 PM

brainiac
Offline
Dedicated FM
Account Locked

p.5 #13 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

When these same shots are pushed responsibly, the pattern noise and banding cannot be seen.

Brilliant. The limitations that I find in using my 5D2's, having come from using 5D, 1D3, 1Ds3, 400D, 450D, and 500D, are because I'm irresponsible. Once more, those of us who speak about this limitation of the 5D2 are insulted, in an increasingly creative way as more demonstrations of the problem are offered. We used to be told that we were too foolish or too inexperienced or too demanding to get acceptable results from the 5D2. We were told to learn how to expose. Now we're just 'irresponsible'!

I irresponsibly tested a 7D the other day, and irresponsibly set the iso to 6400, and irresponsibly pushed it a stop in DPP. It might be irresponsible of me to say so, but for irresponsible camera users like me, the 7D has far less of a burlap noise problem in shadows. It also doesn't suffer from such a twisted colour response, i.e. it can be colour balanced across the luminance scale without endless tweaking. If only the 5D2 used 7D technology, it really would be the best camera for irresponsible photographers like me. ;-)
7D, effective iso 12800, dim fluorescent lighting:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Edited on Nov 06, 2009 at 04:11 PM · View previous versions

Nov 06, 2009 at 03:54 PM

brainiac
Offline
Dedicated FM
Account Locked

p.5 #14 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

n0b0 wrote:
mttran wrote:
No logical for whatever you have said/denied about 5D2 issue. It depends on what your shooting style. Your own reasons are not true at all cases...the 5D2 does have some DR and weak AF issues...and why we keep debate these... this is nonsense...

We should help each other to get canon fix this 2001 noise instead of choking our breaths. You all scare people away, the one who really needs your help. Why you do that

Let's me guess - you might refuse to fix your cam even canon has 5D2 recall, don't you

I wish i have some of your talents

YES - GIVE US ALL A BREAK, WOULD YOU

Are you sure that's not just your 5D2?

I was looking at this black frame comparison between 50D vs 7D vs 5D2 and even when the ISO200 sample was pushed by 6 stops, it's still virtually free of noise.

http://www.komar.org/faq/camera/canon-7d-versus-50d/black-frames/

Great link - thanks. Only, it seems to illustrate the opposite of what you are saying. It shows how bad the QUALITY of 5D2 noise is, and why it is intrusive even in situations where you wouldn't expect it to be.

Nov 06, 2009 at 04:00 PM

gdanmitchell
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #15 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

Daan B wrote:
gdanmitchell wrote:
michael49 wrote:
Given such disparate opinions could it be that there are samples of the 5DII that show this issue and those that don't?

Or perhaps there are samples of forum posters who obsess over this stuff and those who don't? :-)

There are also forum posters who obsess over the fact that others seem to be obsessed over it

You know, I think I'm starting to obsess over the fact that some obsess about those who obsess about others who obsess over arcane technical issues... ;-)

Dan

Nov 06, 2009 at 04:59 PM

Daan B
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #16 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

gdanmitchell wrote:
Daan B wrote:
gdanmitchell wrote:
michael49 wrote:
Given such disparate opinions could it be that there are samples of the 5DII that show this issue and those that don't?

Or perhaps there are samples of forum posters who obsess over this stuff and those who don't? :-)

There are also forum posters who obsess over the fact that others seem to be obsessed over it

You know, I think I'm starting to obsess over the fact that some obsess about those who obsess about others who obsess over arcane technical issues... ;-)

Dan

Nov 06, 2009 at 05:20 PM

mttran
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #17 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

brainiac wrote:
When these same shots are pushed responsibly, the pattern noise and banding cannot be seen.

Brilliant. The limitations that I find in using my 5D2's, having come from using 5D, 1D3, 1Ds3, 400D, 450D, and 500D, are because I'm irresponsible. Once more, those of us who speak about this limitation of the 5D2 are insulted, in an increasingly creative way as more demonstrations of the problem are offered. We used to be told that we were too foolish or too inexperienced or too demanding to get acceptable results from the 5D2. We were told to learn how to expose. Now we're just 'irresponsible'!

I irresponsibly tested a 7D the other day, and irresponsibly set the iso to 6400, and irresponsibly pushed it a stop in DPP. It might be irresponsible of me to say so, but for irresponsible camera users like me, the 7D has far less of a burlap noise problem in shadows. It also doesn't suffer from such a twisted colour response, i.e. it can be colour balanced across the luminance scale without endless tweaking. If only the 5D2 used 7D technology, it really would be the best camera for irresponsible photographers like me. ;-)
7D, effective iso 12800, dim fluorescent lighting:

, some interesting info: http://www.tow.com/photo/articles/banding/

Nov 06, 2009 at 07:26 PM

Doo-bop
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #18 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

Some people are probably too busy making test shots as to read the intro. Did actually anybody have a problem with this while using it for Landscape, Macro, Sports, People or so?

Nov 06, 2009 at 10:44 PM

n0b0
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #19 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

brainiac wrote:
n0b0 wrote:
Are you sure that's not just your 5D2?

I was looking at this black frame comparison between 50D vs 7D vs 5D2 and even when the ISO200 sample was pushed by 6 stops, it's still virtually free of noise.

http://www.komar.org/faq/camera/canon-7d-versus-50d/black-frames/

Great link - thanks. Only, it seems to illustrate the opposite of what you are saying. It shows how bad the QUALITY of 5D2 noise is, and why it is intrusive even in situations where you wouldn't expect it to be.

Really now? What did I actually say? Try reading it carefully this time.

Nov 07, 2009 at 01:14 AM

michael49
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.5 #20 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera

gdanmitchell wrote:
michael49 wrote:
Given such disparate opinions could it be that there are samples of the 5DII that show this issue and those that don't?

Or perhaps there are samples of forum posters who obsess over this stuff and those who don't? :-)

Could be.

But I use a 5d classic now and I shoot mostly landscapes and nature. I use ND grads and blends, but I also often push the shadows in PP as well. Thus, if this really problem showed up in my images with a 5DII then it would be an issue for me.

I used a 2 stop ND grad with in this shot, but I also pushed the shadows on the rock in the foreground without fear with my 5d classic. Would this be an issue with the 5dII?

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Nov 07, 2009 at 02:43 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 end
FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 end