what i wish ...

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Archive 2009 · what i wish ...

bluetsunami
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p.3 #1 · what i wish ...

Sam Bennett wrote:
bluetsunami wrote:
I wouldn't mind if the Rebel line was converted to some sort of hybrid 4/3rd. Then the xxD/7D line would be the full sized DSLR line (and up from there).

What benefit would that have for users buying into the hybrid format? If they only buy hybrid lenses, they'd have to get completely new lenses when they moved up to the dSLR line, due to the presumably shorter flangeback distance of the hybrid.

I meant a hybrid that takes all the normal EF lenses. No new mount system or anything.

Nov 05, 2009 at 04:42 AM

Sam Bennett
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p.3 #2 · what i wish ...

How would that be any different than EF-S? No OVF?

Nov 05, 2009 at 04:59 AM

Yakim Peled
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p.3 #3 · what i wish ...

BTW, my dream camera has 40mm FFD or less, FF, AS, 2MP EVF and an adapter to enable aperture and AF in EF/EF-S lenses. It will never be built, I know.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Nov 05, 2009 at 09:14 AM

Sam Bennett
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p.3 #4 · what i wish ...

For this kind of camera, FF doesn't really interest me much. Since I do a lot of people shooting and close-up/macro shooting the increased DoF usually works more for me than against me. I also really don't find myself pining for an EVF at all - the GF1's LCD is surprisingly good in bright sunlight.

The GF1 is almost perfect for my needs - my only real complaint is the high ISO performance, which is pretty terrible for a modern camera. I end up having to process in B&W a lot since I do so much shooting indoors at ISO 800 or higher.

Having an EVIL type camera based on a Micro F mount would be cool since I could use my Nikon lenses, but honestly... it doesn't hold much appeal. In practice, I think I would do what I'm doing with the GF1 - taking advantage of the super-short flangeback and keeping things as compact as possible. That means buying "native" glass, or M Mount glass. So... I'm not sure if Nikon went this route (which seems more likely than Canon) if I'd even bother buying into it unless Nikon approached it as a "professional" system with more robust build quality, weather sealing, etc.

Nov 05, 2009 at 02:10 PM

Yakim Peled
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p.3 #5 · what i wish ...

Sam Bennett wrote:
For this kind of camera, FF doesn't really interest me much. [...] my only real complaint is the high ISO performance, which is pretty terrible for a modern camera.

But FF can solve that.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Nov 05, 2009 at 02:21 PM

Sam Bennett
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p.3 #6 · what i wish ...

Yakim Peled wrote:
Sam Bennett wrote:
For this kind of camera, FF doesn't really interest me much. [...] my only real complaint is the high ISO performance, which is pretty terrible for a modern camera.

But FF can solve that.

...at the expense of shallower DoF, larger size, etc.

Panasonic is not getting as much out of the 4/3rds size as they could if they had as much experience in sensor design as Canon and Nikon have. I don't need D700-like noise performance out of MFT, but getting a usable ISO 3200 (or 1600 for that matter) would be great.

Nov 05, 2009 at 02:26 PM

Yakim Peled
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p.3 #7 · what i wish ...

Yep. Win here, lose there. Dilemmas..... dilemmas......

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Nov 05, 2009 at 02:40 PM

dasrocket
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p.3 #8 · what i wish ...

Sam Bennett wrote:
bluetsunami wrote:
I wouldn't mind if the Rebel line was converted to some sort of hybrid 4/3rd. Then the xxD/7D line would be the full sized DSLR line (and up from there).

What benefit would that have for users buying into the hybrid format? If they only buy hybrid lenses, they'd have to get completely new lenses when they moved up to the dSLR line, due to the presumably shorter flangeback distance of the hybrid.

That is the same argument as going from EFs to FF lenses; there is room for both.

Nov 05, 2009 at 03:29 PM

Sam Bennett
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p.3 #9 · what i wish ...

dasrocket wrote:
Sam Bennett wrote:
What benefit would that have for users buying into the hybrid format? If they only buy hybrid lenses, they'd have to get completely new lenses when they moved up to the dSLR line, due to the presumably shorter flangeback distance of the hybrid.

That is the same argument as going from EFs to FF lenses; there is room for both.

Except that buying a 1000D and a bunch of EF-S lenses means you still have an upgrade path with those lenses to the 500D, the 50D or the 7D before you have to sell everything off. Jumping from "EF-SS" to EF-S would mean you're completely hosed, even though the crop-factor likely hasn't changed.

Nov 05, 2009 at 03:36 PM

dasrocket
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p.3 #10 · what i wish ...

Yakim Peled wrote:
BTW, my dream camera has 40mm FFD or less, FF, AS, 2MP EVF and an adapter to enable aperture and AF in EF/EF-S lenses. It will never be built, I know.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Mine is one the size of the E-P1 with a fast (read: 1.4, no less), small 35mm and a little slower (2.8 is ok), also small 17mm+- on a body that can do ISO 3200 well. Put in a 2K EVF and completely remove the LCD screen. Oh and please, a flash sync socket!

Nov 05, 2009 at 03:56 PM

dasrocket
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p.3 #11 · what i wish ...

Sam Bennett wrote:
dasrocket wrote:
Sam Bennett wrote:
What benefit would that have for users buying into the hybrid format? If they only buy hybrid lenses, they'd have to get completely new lenses when they moved up to the dSLR line, due to the presumably shorter flangeback distance of the hybrid.

That is the same argument as going from EFs to FF lenses; there is room for both.

Except that buying a 1000D and a bunch of EF-S lenses means you still have an upgrade path with those lenses to the 500D, the 50D or the 7D before you have to sell everything off. Jumping from "EF-SS" to EF-S would mean you're completely hosed, even though the crop-factor likely hasn't changed.

Not if these cameras can take EF-SS AND EF-S lenses. This was dicussed already.

Nov 05, 2009 at 04:00 PM

Sam Bennett
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p.3 #12 · what i wish ...

dasrocket wrote:
Sam Bennett wrote:
Except that buying a 1000D and a bunch of EF-S lenses means you still have an upgrade path with those lenses to the 500D, the 50D or the 7D before you have to sell everything off. Jumping from "EF-SS" to EF-S would mean you're completely hosed, even though the crop-factor likely hasn't changed.

Not if these cameras can take EF-SS AND EF-S lenses. This was dicussed already.

It would be impossible for EF-S to take EF-SS lenses, assuming that EF-SS used a shorter flangeback than EF-S. Without a shorter flangeback, you don't really have a need for a new format - you might as well just reduce the size of the camera as much as you can by slimming it down around the mount, removing the OVF, etc.

Nov 05, 2009 at 04:06 PM

morpheus2891
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p.3 #13 · what i wish ...

yep....the ideal cam would have a shorter registry than current cams and plenty of adapters with a special focus on EF/EF-S that enable those lenses to be used with AF/IS/Auto aperture (and others from 3rd parties) ... that with a large, ultra high res EVF that has a broad dynamic range would be amazing... I get the feeling thought that maybe Canon will not be the first on the scene with such a camera.... perhaps if Zeiss decides to bring back the Contax brand we may see them enter the market with such a camera... now that would REALLY shake things up... however if Canon did this they would finally remedy their big sin of making all FD lenses obsolete... if the new mirrorless cams could use both mounts that would be amazing (though the bean counters would probably freak at the very idea of us using old lenses but hey...I can dream, right?).

Nov 05, 2009 at 07:48 PM

Yakim Peled
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p.3 #14 · what i wish ...

Sam Bennett wrote:
Without a shorter flangeback, you don't really have a need for a new format - you might as well just reduce the size of the camera as much as you can by slimming it down around the mount, removing the OVF, etc.

This will indeed be the simplest route. I wonder if Canikon will do that. With the current economic climate, this is also the cheapest and less risky route.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Nov 05, 2009 at 08:45 PM

rsrsrs
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p.3 #15 · what i wish ...

the
20mm 1:1,7 at micro
is
40mm 1:3,4 at FF
so the OOF blur is to little for me.
sadly, no chance for me.

r

Nov 05, 2009 at 08:55 PM

wolfloid
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p.3 #16 · what i wish ...

The market for a FF mirrorless camera is extremely small

It always makes me wonder why people make such unfounded and unjustified comments. You simply don't know, because the product does not exist yet.

I realise that I'm coming late to this debate, but I wonder if the Samsung NX10 has not already deflated some the quite dogmatic and narrow arguments from the product developer here.

The fact is, the EVIL cameras seems to be selling far more than anyone predicted, and seem to be carving out a real market for themselves. Who knows whether a FF Evil camera will follow or not. Canon/Nikon, however cautious and conservative, have to compete and neither will want to see their market share draining off to Panasonic.

To simply repeat ad nauseum the refrain that thos buying EVIL cameras are those grading up from compacts seems to be more dogma. I've spoken to dozens of photographers who see the rise of small, well-engineered Evil cameras as a great opportunity to free themselves from always lugging a DSLR around. Surely there is a massive market in travel and leisure photography that will be tapped into here.

Jan 15, 2010 at 12:38 PM

Lotusm50
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p.3 #17 · what i wish ...

someone wrote:
The market for a FF mirrorless camera is extremely small

wolfloid wrote:
It always makes me wonder why people make such unfounded and unjustified comments. You simply don't know, because the product does not exist yet.

Indeed. I would also add, "small" in comparison the what? The entire FF market could be considered "small". Most of the cameras sold (compact P&S's aside) are entry-level crop sensor budget DLSRs. Does that mean Nikon shouldn't make a D3x, or Canon a 1D MkIV? or Even a 5D or D700? I would think that a FF mirrorless camera would have a market as big as any of these FF cameras. It would certainly be moire expensive than a NX10 or a GF1, but then a 5D is more expensive than Rebel Xti and that hasn't hurt its success.

Jan 15, 2010 at 12:45 PM

rsrsrs
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p.3 #18 · what i wish ...

Jan 15, 2010 at 02:32 PM

tootalew
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p.3 #19 · what i wish ...

I only read the first page, but I keep thinking of any camera using live video as a viewfinder, that would mean taking the camera away from my face, which I am not in favor of, I like having the camera to my face.

Jan 15, 2010 at 03:15 PM

jcolwell
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p.3 #20 · what i wish ...

I like an optical finder (or maybe a good EVF) for handheld shooting. LiveView on an LCD screen is fine for tripod shooting.

Jan 15, 2010 at 03:33 PM

cogitech
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p.3 #21 · what i wish ...

+1 to Christopher and Jim.

Jan 15, 2010 at 03:42 PM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.3 #22 · what i wish ...

sony cle (m9)

Jan 15, 2010 at 03:51 PM

Jonas B
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p.3 #23 · what i wish ...

I have used the Panasonic G1 for periods (together with a 5D and later the 5DMkII) since November 2008. I never doubted other manufacturers would make similar cameras.

We can now see the Samsung NX come, and with the NX we also see the first step taken from a LIVE 2x crop camera to a LIVE 1.5 crop camera.

Anyone drawing a mental line at the 1.5 crop sensor size is just in a temporary state of denial.

When out taking images I see no practical difference in focusing speed between the G1 and its cheap little kit lens and say the 5D with an EF50/1.4. There is a difference, possible to measure and all that bit for any AF-S situation there is no disadvantage to the little G1.

Now I can hear you think that the 5DMkII isn't a top AF camera... But then I also don't think the G1 represents the top of contrast AF technology mankind can achieve either.

Now add much better viewfinder for manual focusing and the image reviewed right in the viewfinder, smaller lenses, near silent shooting and a lot of other small bits - and you still think the big manufacturers won't make a FF LIVE camera? It will happen. it will take over a lot of the market and it won't take 7-10 years.

regards,

/Jonas (and I usually don't speculate a lot)

Jan 16, 2010 at 11:36 AM

jcolwell
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p.3 #24 · what i wish ...

Jonas B wrote:
...a FF LIVE camera? It will happen. it will take over a lot of the market and it won't take 7-10 years.

I agree.

Jan 16, 2010 at 11:53 AM


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