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Archive 2009 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Craddosk
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p.1 #1 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

So, after disassembling my current tripod (a Propod style, old and heavy), I'm looking towards upgrading the head. After hearing the numerous rave reviews about the RRS BH-55, I thought I would look at Real Right Stuff's gear.
So, the camera system in question is a Nikon D40x, with the current heaviest lens being the 55-200mm VR, weighing in around 335 grams. There is no 70-200 f/2.8 in my near (next 5 years) future. Likely future lenses will be a wide angle and maybe another prime.

As to the topic at hand, the gear I'm looking at is:
RRS BH-25 ball head with their B2mAS clamp system. This is not the quick release clamp, rather the screw based on. This was done with pricepoint in mind. Those that have used both the screw and quick release, what are your thoughts on this?

Multi-camera plate for Nikon D40/D40x. This is considered as a result of the pricepoint, I'm thinking that the L-plate will not receive enough usage to warrant the extra $70. Thoughts? I realize that for a portrait shot, I would have to put the camera over, potentially destabilizing the tripod and having the recompose the shot.

Total cost for all this is $200 American dollars. This is before shipping to Canada.

What are your thoughts on this system? Will it last for many years, and will the ballhead, with it's pull out adjustment only, suffice for most shots? At this moment in time I'm shooting landscapes, but that could change with time. Would it be worth the extra $130 and step up to the BH-30 or even the BH-40?

In addition, is there Canadian retailers for RRS gear or is it strictly available from their website? My research is by no means complete, as I'm visiting local camera stores for further opinions tomorrow morning. If you have suggestions, I welcome them.

Thanks.

Oct 31, 2009 at 05:00 AM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #2 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

I would recommend Markins instead. They sell their stuff from Canada. And their ballhead are as good as the RRS. I don't like the RRS BH-25 very much but the RRS BH-40 & BH-55 are very good.
The Markins have their excellent Q3 ballhead and they sell it from Canada.
http://www.markinsamerica.com/MA5/index.php

Oct 31, 2009 at 09:01 AM

Roland W
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p.1 #3 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Really Right Stuff also has a new BH-30 model, which you mentioned in your original post. I have one on order, and it looks like it will be a good compromise in performance between the BH-25 and the BH-40. It basically has all the features of the BH-40, but is smaller. And the price is in between, and likely similar to the Markins Q3. Like Lars, I do not think the BH-25 is very useful for regular use, and should only be reserved for very light weight setups. For landscape, you often need very steady support for low light and increased depth of field, and the BH-25 will not really give that to you with a full sized DSLR, even with a fairly small lens. Plus the BH-25 lacks an independent pan base, so you can not do panoramas with it.

If there is any way to stretch to getting an L plate right away, it may save you some money in the long run. I originally did not think it would be very useful when I got started with the Arca Swiss system, but now would never be without an L plate on every one of my cameras. It allows the camera to stay centered over the tripod for portrait shots, which is even more important for a smaller sized ball head like you are considering. It is also very fast to change back and forth, while a side slot is more trouble.

I also think you would be better served with a full sized clamp than using the RSS mAS. The knob on the mAS clamp is really very small, and is best reserved for special setups or very light weight rigs. A regular style full sized screw clamp is not much more money from either RSS or Markins.

Oct 31, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Smiert Spionam
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p.1 #4 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

The BH-25 is ideal on a tiny table tripod, but it's not what I'd pick for a standard tripod. The BH-40 or a Markins Q3 would be much better. The Q3 has a slight weight (2.6 ounces, when comparing with the same clamp) advantage over the BH-40, and it's going to be cheaper and faster to get in Canada (I'd probably go ebay for an even cheaper price than Markins direct, but either will work).

I prefer the RRS ergonomics, but both are great.

The new BH-30 is intriguing, but I haven't had a chance to try one yet.

Oct 31, 2009 at 05:05 PM

Craddosk
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p.1 #5 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

So after more research, it appears that RRS is only available from their website. Can't seem to find a distributor that I can allow to actually try using the ball head before I purchase it.

Stopped in at a local camera store, and they recommend the Manfrotto 488RC. They're bringing one in from one of their other stores so that I can get my hands dirty with it. Reviews that I've read say that it's a fairly good tripod. What are your thoughts on it? They're advertising it at $134 CAN, so significantly cheaper than the BH-30 and the BH-25 from RRS. From my lookings, it has the panoramic style rotation, in addition to the ballhead. Holds 8 pounds. Thoughts on longevity from this product, and ability to actually perform?

Oct 31, 2009 at 10:55 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #6 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

The Manfrotto 488 ballhead is not at all in the same league as the RRS or Markins discussed in this thread.

Oct 31, 2009 at 11:02 PM

Craddosk
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p.1 #7 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Lars, why is that? Is the build quality just lacking in comparison or is it simply not a long term, quality head?

Oct 31, 2009 at 11:11 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #8 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

IMO everything is less good on that ballhead compared to the other two brands. And it don't have the Arca-Swiss style clamps either. Plates & clamps fot that system is many classes behind the others

Oct 31, 2009 at 11:18 PM

Craddosk
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p.1 #9 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Ok. Good to know. Thanks!

Oct 31, 2009 at 11:19 PM

Chris Noyes
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p.1 #10 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Lars Johnsson wrote:
IMO everything is less good on that ballhead compared to the other two brands. And it don't have the Arca-Swiss style clamps either. Plates & clamps fot that system is many classes behind the others

I'd love to hear more about this assertion. TheManfrotto 488RC2 (ballhead, plates, and clamps) have served me well.

Nov 01, 2009 at 12:45 AM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #11 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Chris Noyes wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
IMO everything is less good on that ballhead compared to the other two brands. And it don't have the Arca-Swiss style clamps either. Plates & clamps fot that system is many classes behind the others

I'd love to hear more about this assertion. TheManfrotto 488RC2 (ballhead, plates, and clamps) have served me well.

But do you think your Manfrotto 488RC2 is as good as the RRS and Markins ballhead that we talked about in this thread ? And the plates & clamps, do they have the same standard and quality as those from RRS

I owned the RC0 version of your head a long time ago. (IMO) those clamps and plates where really really bad/cheap compared to the best. And the ball was not smooth at all compaared to the Markins/RRS. Less good to adjust compared to RRS/Markins. The ball also slowly slide down when I used a heavy lens. I couldn't lock it really tight when I put some weight on it.
There is a reason that it cost so little compared to the much better RRS/Markins ballheads.

And I would love to hear if you really belive that your ballhead is as good as the best from RRS & Markins

Nov 01, 2009 at 07:26 AM

jcolwell
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p.1 #12 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

I think the Manfrotto 468MG Hydrostatic head is pretty good, but the others aren't up to quality of the typical Arca-Swiss system heads that are commonly discussed here.

Nov 01, 2009 at 12:33 PM

arashm
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p.1 #13 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Wait BH-30
when did this come out?
no one told me about it

am

Nov 01, 2009 at 02:15 PM

Craddosk
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p.1 #14 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

I just noticed the BH-30 when cruising through the RRS site, it's not on their main ballhead page, you have to dig a little bit for it.

But, here's a link:
RRS BH-30

Keep the comments coming guys! It's very much appreciated.

Nov 01, 2009 at 04:13 PM

Roland W
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p.1 #15 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Well, Really Right Stuff didn't tell you about the BH-30, but this forum did. I have had one on order now for about a week, but it did not ship right away, so it may indeed be very new. I want to try it on my new Gitzo GT2540T legs, which are the fairly new Traveler legs that are series 2 ranther than the previous common series 1 Travelers. I have always wanted something a little bigger and more rigid than the original Travelers. I was undecided between a BH-40 and the new BH-30, but decided to give the "new guy" a try. I will report on the BH-30 when I get one and have a chance to see how it does.

Nov 01, 2009 at 04:49 PM

Chris Noyes
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p.1 #16 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Lars Johnsson wrote:
Chris Noyes wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
IMO everything is less good on that ballhead compared to the other two brands. And it don't have the Arca-Swiss style clamps either. Plates & clamps fot that system is many classes behind the others

I'd love to hear more about this assertion. TheManfrotto 488RC2 (ballhead, plates, and clamps) have served me well.

But do you think your Manfrotto 488RC2 is as good as the RRS and Markins ballhead that we talked about in this thread ? And the plates & clamps, do they have the same standard and quality as those from RRS

In what way do mean "as good"? If you mean the ability to hold my gear motionless while the shutter actuates, and providing me with a clear image, then my answer is a resounding "YES".

Mind you, I am not using anything larger than my 70-200 or 300 mm f4, nor do I do I shoot wildlife. I only have one larger/heavier lens anyway (a 300 mm f2.8), and it was recently acquired. I use it for sports shooting and have no need to mount it to my tripod yet. The Manfrotto 488 ball motion is more than "smooth" enough for my needs, and the locking action has never been an issue for me. The lack of hydrostatic action is not something I presently miss.

Now, if you're talking about aesthetic appeal of the gear itself, then my answer would be "NO", the Manfrotto doesn't look as "high-end" as the Markins or RRS.

I've yet to understand the "advantage" of the Arca-Swiss plate/clamp system besides them being more "universal" in being able to use them across a wider selection of competing brands. This "advantage" escapes me, however, when the competing brands are more expensive than Manfrotto plates/clamps.

Again, the Manfrotto plates/clamps have not been a contributing factor to loss in image quality. YMMV

Nov 01, 2009 at 05:18 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #17 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Chris Noyes wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Chris Noyes wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
IMO everything is less good on that ballhead compared to the other two brands. And it don't have the Arca-Swiss style clamps either. Plates & clamps fot that system is many classes behind the others

I'd love to hear more about this assertion. TheManfrotto 488RC2 (ballhead, plates, and clamps) have served me well.

But do you think your Manfrotto 488RC2 is as good as the RRS and Markins ballhead that we talked about in this thread ? And the plates & clamps, do they have the same standard and quality as those from RRS

In what way do mean "as good"? If you mean the ability to hold my gear motionless while the shutter actuates, and providing me with a clear image, then my answer is a resounding "YES".

Mind you, I am not using anything larger than my 70-200 or 300 mm f4, nor do I do I shoot wildlife. I only have one larger/heavier lens anyway (a 300 mm f2.8), and it was recently acquired. I use it for sports shooting and have no need to mount it to my tripod yet. The Manfrotto 488 ball motion is more than "smooth" enough for my needs, and the locking action has never been an issue for me. The lack of hydrostatic action is not something I presently miss.

Now, if you're talking about aesthetic appeal of the gear itself, then my answer would be "NO", the Manfrotto doesn't look as "high-end" as the Markins or RRS.

I've yet to understand the "advantage" of the Arca-Swiss plate/clamp system besides them being more "universal" in being able to use them across a wider selection of competing brands. This "advantage" escapes me, however, when the competing brands are more expensive than Manfrotto plates/clamps.

Again, the Manfrotto plates/clamps have not been a contributing factor to loss in image quality. YMMV

But have you owned and used any of the RRS or Markins ballheads

Nov 01, 2009 at 05:25 PM

Roland W
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p.1 #18 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Availability of custom fit L plates is one very big advantage to the Arca-Swiss system. An L plate that allows you to keep the camera over the center of the tripod is a huge thing for me, and I wish I had understood that sooner than the 6 years I have been using L plates. So an L plate is better for both image quality and for speed of use than dropping into a side slot.

Using the same quick release clamp system with longer linear plates to balance a lens and camera mounted via a lens collar mount is another big advantage of the Arca-Swiss system. For on a ball head or monopod, or for on a gimbal mount like a Wimberley, that quick and easy balance adjust is very valuable.

Ease of mounting and un mounting a lens or camera without carefull alignment or engagement tipping is another advantage over most Manfrotto quick release systems. You plop it on flat, and close the clamp while it is supported by the release.

So that is three big reasons why I am never going back to my Bogen/Manfrotto quick releases I used before. Ball heads are a different story, and there are a lot of brands that work fairly well. I happen to like RSS heads, but understand that several other brands are very functional. But if they don't allow for buying them with Arca Swiss clamps, or converting them to A/S, I am not interested.

Nov 01, 2009 at 05:32 PM

Chris Noyes
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p.1 #19 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

Lars Johnsson wrote:
But have you owned and used any of the RRS or Markins ballheads

I've not owned, but I have used RRS (BH-55 only), Markins, Acratech, Arca-Swiss, and Kirk equipment of others while at workshops and group photography outings. I've never been told by anyone that my less expensive Manfrotto equipment degrades my images.

I've spoken to many professional photographers about this question and I've never been told that the Manfrotto equipment produces inferior images, but I have been told (and I believe this too) that the Arca-Swiss systems are easier and more convenient to use. While these may be compelling reasons that affect purchase choices, they are not sufficient enough for me at this time. Perhaps if I were to pursue wildlife photography with larger glass, I might change my mind.

Nov 01, 2009 at 05:50 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #20 · Ballheads - Do I have everything?

I agree with Roland. The L-plate did it for me.

I'm in the process of switching from Manfrotto RC2 to Arca-Swiss (A-S), with a variety of heads. I've been using A-S QR bases from RRS with a heavy Mamiya M645 300/2.8 APO + RC on 1DII with monopod and tripod heads for a year or so. Last week, I ordered (and received) a custom RRS L-bracket for my 5D, to use with a new RRS BH-25 head that I ordered at the same time for travel. I was previously using a Manfrotto 486RC2 head for travel (on a super-light GT-0540 CF tripod), but it's kind of big & clunky, and it's a pain to use in portrait mode. I have two Manfrotto "Junior Elbow Brackets", and they're fine for big stuff, like a flip frame system that's semi-permanently attached to my 5D's grip, but they're no good for a compact travel kit.

Anyway, I got the 5D L-bracket and now I'm converting the rest of my camera/lens support to A-S, with a handful of Hejnar plates and RRS B2 QR bases for my macro rail system & etc. I'll use most of the RC2 plates and bases for lighting gear, so it's not a loss.

Nov 01, 2009 at 05:54 PM

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