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Scott424 Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · Strobed basketball set-up Hi all. I have a question (or two) on setting up my strobes. I have 2 AB 800's that I am planning on using this season for our HS boys and girls games. I have all the different permissions I need from the school and athletic personel, so that's covered. Also, I have talked with the boys coach, and he agreed to let me come to a few of the practices to get this lighting dialed in before games start. What I am looking for is some advice as to where to place them. On one end of the gym, is the doorways to acces the gym: Photo to show the entry only: Then the other end has a white'ish wall with the orange & black padding, as seen in the 1st photo. On the sides, one wall is a full set of bleachers with metal hand rails to the top: Photo to show the railing only The opposite side has the same set up of bleachers, except that above them , there is a balcony with a railing all the way across. Sorry no photo of that The ceiling is open truss type, white in color, and approximately 25ft. There are power outlets easily accessable, and I'd rather not use lightstands, so I was thinking of mounting them on the hand rails with Superclamps. My questions are this: #1-- Should I have both on one end of the court, opposite sides, or should I have one on each end opposites sides? #2-- Should I bounce off the ceiling, or feather out to the court? I'm really thinking of bouncing, as I have had good results with just a 580EX ll OC pointed straight up. the strobes would be @ 10 ft from the ceiling when mounted. #3-- Where should I start on power settings for these, 1/4 -- 1/2 -- 3/4 -- or Full? I just want a baseline to start from. #4-- Should I just set them up and start from scratch I also have my 580EX ll to use as a 3rd strobe IF need for even more light and all this will be shot with a Canon 1D Classic (YES there are those of us who still use that Dino! ) and fired with CyberSyncs. Thanks for any help Oct 30, 2009 at 06:44 PM

timgangloff Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #2 · Strobed basketball set-up #1-- Should I have both on one end of the court, opposite sides, or should I have one on each end opposites sides? Depends on if you want to shoot at both ends. If not, do one side. Also, if you don't have enough power, you'll want both at one end. #2-- Should I bounce off the ceiling, or feather out to the court? I'm really thinking of bouncing, as I have had good results with just a 580EX ll OC pointed straight up. the strobes would be @ 10 ft from the ceiling when mounted. I do both. I put both at one end, one direct and one bounced and 580ex on camera bounced as well #3-- Where should I start on power settings for these, 1/4 -- 1/2 -- 3/4 -- or Full? I just want a baseline to start from. You'll probably have to just shoot some and see what you get. #4-- Should I just set them up and start from scratch Kinda, don't be afraid to experiment. http://hatpix.blogspot.com/2009/01/my-strobe-setup.html and my results: http://hatpix.blogspot.com/2009/01/freezing-action-at-1300-of-second-or.html Oct 30, 2009 at 07:36 PM

Marty Bingham Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #3 · Strobed basketball set-up Scott, Short version. (I'm heading out for work) Set both lights on the same end of the court on opposite sides of the basket. Teams switch end at half time so you can shoot them both as offense and defense from the same spot. One light may not be enough to light one end by its self and they won't be of much help to each other if you just shoot one end. Use the end with the white walls as they will help spread the light. Bounce them off the ceiling. Don't worry about duct work, trusses etc., they actually help diffuse the light. Set them to full power then leave them alone. Set your camera to manual. SS 200 or so, then adjust your aperture (wider) and ISO (higher), one at a time in that order, til your exposure looks good. Ignore the histogram. Once you get the light and color you like take a shot without flash. You should get a black or nearly black frame. If not, you need to stop down until you do. Otherwise you will get ghosting once the action starts. After you get your money shots you can monkey around with things to see what you can come up with but these basic settings will get you started. Good luck, Marty Oct 30, 2009 at 07:37 PM

S_Dreslinski Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #4 · Strobed basketball set-up I concur with Marty. Put them on the same end of the court, those bleacher railings should work great, then work the baseline on that end to get your shots. Full power on the AB800's gets you the fastest flash duration, so crank them to full and leave them as Marty said. I'd start with 1/250 to get the max sync speed, f4 for a start, and maybe ISO 400-600 for a start. Play with the ISO and aperture to get a good exposure, and like Marty said, your frame should be nearly black when the strobes are off to kill the ambient and prevent ghosting. Oct 30, 2009 at 08:08 PM

Scott424 Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #5 · Strobed basketball set-up Thanks for the replies, but shouldn't I be using the max sync speed of 1/500th of the 1D Classic instead of 1/200? I'll be able to experiment a little at the practices, but at least i'll know where to start baseline settings from. Oh.. one other thing, I wanted to fire them with the CyberSyncs instead of the built in slave sensor, to keep them from going off everytime a P&S was used so I may use the 580EX ll as another mounted strobe somewhere, any suggestions? Thanks again, you have provided me with useful info!! Oct 30, 2009 at 08:16 PM

joe_boyd Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · Strobed basketball set-up It's probably better to shoot AB800s at full-power and bounce, since the fastest flash duration times (t/.5 (50% of the lght), t/.1 (90% of the light) times) are at full power instead of fractional (1/2, 1/4, 1/8 1/16, 1/32) power settings. One would think that the fastest duration times would be at fractional power, but it's actually at full. Of course, the downside to full-power is that it takes longer to recycle. Depending on your power requirements, AB400s may be better for action photography since they offer faster flash duration than the AB800 with faster recycle after a full flash, but then you only have half the power of the 800. The lighting choice really has to be tailored to the flash-to-subject distance and ambient light level (required power) Oct 30, 2009 at 08:42 PM

Scott Sewell Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: On p.1 #7 · Strobed basketball set-up First things first...you are insured, correct? If not, don't even think about doing any of this until you've got a couple million in liability. If you're shooting the original 1d, I would suggest using the sync speed of 1/500. I don't have one any longer, but one reason I kept one of the original 1d bodies in my gear lineup was specifically for strobing high school sports. I use B800s and have never had them at full power in a HS facility. Just too powerful. Mine are usually set about about 1/2 and bounced toward the top of the key. I will put them on a 13' stand then use a magic arm/super clamps to attach the stand to one of the hand rails. I don't clamp lights right to the hand rails as there are too many people who will goof with them. At least on the stand, they're out of reach and the magic arm/clamps keep them secure. I've never had a problem with that set-up. And, if I'm using just one light, I can just unclamp the stand, walk under the bleachers to the other end of the court at halftime, clamp the stand and I'm good to go. I use to use two--and sometimes still do--but most of the time I use one in a corner behind the spot where I'm shooting along the baseline. I will use two when I think I might have a tough time sitting where I'd like. Often the HS games can get very crowded right around the court, compared to college of NBA where there are specific places for shooters to work. Here is an example of strobe placement (excuse the shot and graphics): And here is a sample image: Here's another: You will notice the one light will cover pretty much most of the lane, out to the top of the key, and toward the light. What it doens't cover is the far court but, frankly, how many good shots are coming from other there anyway? There are usually too many bodies in the way to get decent shots from the opposite side of the lane. Here are a couple of samples with two strobes on one end in each corner. Again, these 800s were not set to full power...maybe half at most. There is plenty of light. One problem with using two is if you try to shoot someone driving the baseline toward you there will likely be a lot of spill from the opposite strobe. And, as mentioned earlier, there is just not much to capture from the opposite side of the lane even if the strobe is lighting things up nicely over there. For me, I like that the second strobe is almost like a hair light or highlight to the main strobe behind me. Finally, if you really want to have fun and expand what you might capture, you can get to the point of adjusting your settings on the fly and capturing action at the far end of the court. With one strobe, here is a shot of a player right in front of me. Settings are ISO400, 1/250, f5.6. And here is the same player (same game) driving at the top of the key at the far end of the court. All I did was dial my aperture to f2.8 when they move to that end, then dial it back to f5.6 when they come back. Good luck. Oh yea, I should mention that it's tough to tell you how/where to place your strobe(s) without really seeing the layout and traffic flow in the gym. But I can highly recommend that you know where the high-traffic patterns are and plan accordingly. I can't say I've ever strobed a HS facility where I could put the strobes in an ideal spot. There are often doorways, walkways or stairs where I'd like to put them, but will place them elsewhere just to lessen the chance of problems. Oct 30, 2009 at 09:52 PM

Dave Hahn Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #8 · Strobed basketball set-up My first thought was the insurance also. My question is what are you using to fire the strobes The sync speed will vary greatly. I use the Pocket Wizards and those the max sync speed is 1/250th others are slower sync speeds. For only having 2 AB800's you will need to set them up on the same side to get enough light. I use 4 800's with Division 1 colleges. I set them up about 5-10 feet in front of the basket and aim them to the top of the key. (both just off center so the lighting is even in the key as well as the sides.) I like to have my strobes infront of the basket to eliminate shadows under and around the net. The only bad part of lighting 1 side is your backgrounds will be dark. Being able to light both ends does look better. Also I would recommend a light meter. This would eliminate a lot of time testing and adjusting lights. If I remember correctly I am shooting basketball @400iso 1/250@5.6 Oct 30, 2009 at 10:06 PM

Scott424 Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #9 · Strobed basketball set-up Thanks again for the replies guys! Scott-- I am going to try and get a shot of the balcony I refered to earlier. My thinking is this: One AB800 at each end of the balcony, bounced off ceiling to top of key. Now after reading your post on your set-up, I'm thinking that the strobes mounted on stands, clamped to the rail is best! That way, nothing is hanging over the spectators Also, in the balcony, there are two people, the school videographer, and one school staff personel(keeping watch over the crowd), so they would be out of the way of all traffic. One on each end will give me the flexability to work both ends(if I feel like it), and can have the school staff in the balcony turn off/on the far end strobe if needed. I appreciate your reply and examples, it really does help!! I will post some examples from the practice sessions, next week sometime, for you to examine BTW: YES, insured (Had to!) Scott Oct 30, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Scott424 Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #10 · Strobed basketball set-up Here is a photo showing the balcony. It extends from top of the key to the top of the key on both ends. Never mind the horrible photo, it was shot at ambient, ISO 3200 on the Dino Oct 30, 2009 at 10:24 PM

Dave Hahn Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #11 · Strobed basketball set-up here is a link to a game I did with the 4)800's mounted to a overhang much like you have in your posted image. In one of the images you can see how I have the Bee's set. I use super clamps to mount to railing. http://csiphoto.zenfolio.com/p608512723 Oct 31, 2009 at 01:10 AM

Beau Arnold Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #12 · Strobed basketball set-up Stobing with the bees can be intimidating the first time out. If you can get the lights close to the corners like Scott and others have said that really improves the lighting. Having them up in the air on stands prevents spillage of light from the 7 in reflector. The 11 or 12 in reflector or sport reflector really helps. I still shoot the 1D for strobe work and your ss does not really matter since the strobes are stopping the action. In a gym like this you could play around with the railing and the clamps or even the mezzanine and the clamps. Tim taught me the 1 bounce and the 2nd direct. Do not be afraid of playing around. Most every hs gym I go into is somewhere around 400iso 250ss and F4 full power on the bees on the corners bounced at the key. Here is a 1D shot from last year where the leak was a little hot since my lights were lower on the stands. Edited on Oct 31, 2009 at 03:07 PM · View previous versions Oct 31, 2009 at 02:01 PM

Marty Bingham Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #13 · Strobed basketball set-up Scott, at the risk of going into information overload here is some more....... This shot is taken from the actual location of two AB-800's. This illustration shows the opposite corner which is similar. We use a total of four AB 800's in this gym, mounted on one end on opposite sides of the basket. Here is one of double mounted setups. We keep them behind the basket so we don't end up shooting directly into them. Here are shots from this setup. 1.) At the basket 2.) In the lane 3.) At the three point line 4.) Center court 5.) Far end. Note the ghosting caused by the strobe light fall off. That's what can happen if you do not have enough difference between artificial and ambient light. Here's a quicky from another gym with a balcony. This area was not my first or even third choice for strobe placement but it was roped off for me and was my only choice. We had to bank light off the wall onto the ceiling to hit the floor. Here are shots from that setup. 6.) At the basket. 7.) Center court Trust me...........even in rinky dink little gyms, I recommend using two lights at full power for many reasons but for someone starting out the most important one is simplicity. It takes one adjustment out of the equation which makes things much easier. Here is a two light, full power shot in a tiny gym. 8.) Also, Beau makes an excellent point about shutter speed. Other than being in sync with your flash shutter speed is irrelevant because the strobes do everything the shutter ordinarily does. Be sure to show us some of your shots, even if they are bad, so we can help some more if you need it. Good luck, Marty Oct 31, 2009 at 02:45 PM

Scott424 Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #14 · Strobed basketball set-up Dave, Beau & Marty-- Thanks for all the info and diagrams!! Very USEFUL I'll be going next weekend to practice and experiment and will most definately post up my results, good or bad, HOPEFULLY good, after all the help from everyone here I sincerely appreciate all your time to offer your set-ups and advice Marty- NO INFO overload ---the more info the better IMO! Scott Oct 31, 2009 at 02:58 PM

Beau Arnold Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #15 · Strobed basketball set-up Scott if I only had 2 ab's I might try that mezzanine for a half bounced then maybe the top of that railing by the exit sign if you have power there. I now take a VBII with me and have got a little lazy. Last week I shot my first bb of the season and I put them 3 -6 feet apart both bounced (1 at the key and one at the basket) from the corner. I knew I had a limited shooting zone but I was close to the bench. Oct 31, 2009 at 03:19 PM

PaulieG Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #16 · Strobed basketball set-up WOW!! just what I have been Looking for! I recently have been contracted to shoot a Major High School Basketball tournament in our area and trying to figure out how to light it up!!! I have shot in the Gym several times but have shied away from using strobes of any sort! but being this is a contract job I wanted to get the Best possible images. I already own 4 ABs sb800 and a quatum. I had already in-vision using the ab's but was looking for the best way to position them. thanks for all your tips, tricks and suggestions.. and like Scott said I have already arranged to experiment durring practice session! and Yes I have insurance! lol you guys have taking the guess work out of it and now i can try a couple of light positions to see what is going to work the best! thanks Nov 11, 2009 at 02:29 AM

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