Register · Search · Software · Join Upload & Sell · Hosting

	Moderated by: Fred Miranda
	Username   Password FM Forum Rules FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell    Search Used end    Archive 2009 · shooting SB600 with manual settings

jnshanwh Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · shooting SB600 with manual settings I have a Nikon D80, SB600, and (brand new) SC-28 synch cord. When I have shot weddings in a church (with film) I am used to shooting at f8 for the depth of field and dragging the shutter down to 1/4 to 1/15 to drag in some background light. I am just now trying to shoot some weddings with digital and want to know how to shoot the camera on manual and get TTL with the flash, preferable with the flash in auto. I'm so used to shooting 263's and a Q-flash that way. When I set the flash to manual: full power is blown out, I guess you can use trial and error with the manual flash settings, but who has that kind of time when you are shooting a wedding. The auto settings work great for candid shots. I shot a reception at a Bar Mitzvah using total auto settings (both camera and flash) and was blown away with the results. As easy as shooting film. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:51 AM

ishootsports3 Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #2 · shooting SB600 with manual settings i think if you leave the flash in ttl it will work, but i dont use enough flash to be sure Oct 29, 2009 at 02:45 AM

j.curtis Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: On p.1 #3 · shooting SB600 with manual settings Something stinks here. Shooting digital is no different then shooting film as far as camera settings go. If you know how to set up your camera with film then you know how to set it up with digital. Oct 29, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Kittyk Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #4 · shooting SB600 with manual settings it works in auto mode, but sure at that low speeds is auto less precise with mixed light. Now on digital, you might want to up ISO and increase speed Oct 29, 2009 at 12:51 PM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #5 · shooting SB600 with manual settings WIth color negative film the limiting factor is the range of the print paper. The negative has a much longer range with enough "headroom" 2 stops of over-exposure on the linear part of the response. Exposure in the camera just needs to be close, not perfect. When making the print the lab just uses more or less exposure. With digital the sensor range is the limiting factor and it is less forgiving because there is little headroom for overexposure and no easy way the fix blowing highlights. The thing to realize about flash is that regardless of how it is regulated exposure is only correct at one distance. So good exposure starts with good composition for flash, keeping what needs to be correctly exposed closest to the light. That way everything else will be darker and not blown out when the thing that is most important is exposed correctly. I learned flash working for Monte Zucker back in '72. We used a pair of identical unmodified, single power flashes in manual mode. Exposure was controlled by shooting systematically adjusting aperture as shooting distance changed. For example for a shot taken from 11ft the off camera flash would be placed at 8ft. The difference in distance makes the off camera flash 2x brighter and because it overlaps the fill on the camera bracket, 2+1:1 = a 3:1 ratio on the face. Exposure at 11ft was determined with testing. Once the f/stop needed for 11ft was known it will always be the same because there are no variables. It was systematic in that we shot from specific distances all the time. The 11ft distance was the benchmark and required an exposure of f/8. For a closer shot (we used TLR Rolleiflex cameras) the camera would move to 8ft, the off camera flash to 6ft (to maintain the ratio) and the aperture would be closed one f/stop (from f/8 to f/11). For a wider shot the camera would move to 16ft, the off camera light to 11ft, and the lens opened one f/stop (from f/8 to f/5.6). An entire reception was covered with a fixed focal length lens with a 3 stop range of aperture adjustment. As mentioned the color negative process has enough latitude for over exposure to make that approach work if one errs on the side of overexposure. It can also work with digital but the margin for error is smaller and one should err on the side of underexposure which can be easily fixed in post processing. I use Canon flash with that manual power / distance formula when shooting dual flash portraits because once set the exposure is consistent shot-to-shot. With both flashes on 1/2 power with my DIY diffusers I put the off camera flash one arm span between the center of the diffuser and the nose of the subject at a 45 degree angle to the nose, then take four steps back and shoot at f/8 @ ISO 100. My arm span is just under 6ft, I step back to 8ft from the subject. The result is a perfectly exposed file with a 3:1 ratio. If the situation isn't static I switch to Canon's ETTL ratio mode. Any TTL metering mode is a guess by the camera regarding what needs to be exposed correctly. That's why intelligent composition is required on the part of the photographer to put what needs to be correctly exposed closest to the flash. My ideal model for flash in candid situations is stage lighting, not an overcast day. Indoor ambient light is usually hitting the faces at an unflattering angle (dark eye sockets) and is a different color so I opt to overpower the ambient, or when needed add a third flash aimed at the background. Put the star upstage in the spot light and then hide all the distractions in the receding fall off. When room ambience is important I'll either shoot a wide, ambient balanced available light shot to establish the setting in a slide show or album sequence or gell the flash to match the ambient. The solutions vary with the goals for the shot. Finding the correct exposure is like sighting in a gun. Aim, fire the first shot, see where it lands, then you know how much to adjust. Remember with flash exposure and distance are joined at the hip. So evaluate where in the shot exposure is correct using the playback and overexposure warning, then move the point of correct exposure closer with minus flash compensation and further back with plus compensation. At weddings just key exposure of the clipping warning in the bride's dress and the white shirts. Getting detail in the bride dress and black suit of the groom at the same time requires two flashes in an overlapping key over even fill configuration. The problem is the range of the sensor. Even in flat light if the highlights are exposed correctly some shadow detail will be lost because the scene has a reflective range of 10 stops from white to black but the camera only has a range of about 8, and only about 6 carry detail. What the fill placed over the camera on a bracket does is lift everything the camera sees to the point it can see detail in the darkest shadows. The second off axis flash then creates the highlight pattern on top of the fill, like adding white frosting to a chocolate cake. The net effect is the flash changes the range of the scene in the foreground from 10 to 6-7 stops and the camera is able to record detail everywhere. Chuck Oct 29, 2009 at 01:00 PM

jnshanwh Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · shooting SB600 with manual settings Thanks to all for the great info, a lot to digest. I guess I got lazy shooting film. I used the old chestnut 'f8 is great'. With my 283/285's set to red, or with my Q-flash set to f8(auto) pretty much everything from about 6 ft to 20 ft came out acceptable. I worked at a portrait lab for many years so I know how that end goes too. I probably had them jumping through hoops trying to balance all my shots at different distances. Ironically one thing I did working at the lab was the QC or color filtration. I remember trying to balance 300 shots of a wedding; the hardest part (this was back in the days of film) was getting the white gown the 'same' shade of white throughout. Chuck, you talked about using two lights at a wedding with the on camera flash as fill. I guess the off camera flash is the main light (similar to studio lighting). In that case would you put the off camera light on the grooms side to bring out the shadow detail in the tux without blowing out the gown? Or did I get that backwards. Oct 29, 2009 at 11:37 PM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #7 · shooting SB600 with manual settings jnshanwh wrote: In that case would you put the off camera light on the grooms side to bring out the shadow detail in the tux without blowing out the gown? Or did I get that backwards. The problem is the short range of the sensor. If the shot is exposed for the dress the shutter closes before the black suit reflects enough light if one flash is used. Worse is when one flash is moved off axis because that puts unfilled shadows in the black fabric. When two lights are used with neutral centered fill, such as a flash on a camera bracket, it illuminates EVERYTHING the camera sees. It is set to the level which will allow the sensor to record the detail in the darkest areas... The off axis "key" light overlaps the fill and creates the highlights like putting the frosting on the cake. FYI - there is also a separate background light in that shot (from a 4 light studio exercise) Adding a back light component will enhance the illusion of 3D: Key, fill and rim light are to lighting what onions, carrots and celery are to cooking, the foundation. In the case of lighting the key and fill work together to fit the entire range of the scene to the sensor so detail is recorded everywhere. The accent rim light enhances contrast, which is what creates the illusion of 3D a photo. Its like the sprinkles on top of the icing on the cake. A background light is the 4th component of a classic lighting scenario, but it isn't needed of the the background is light enough in tone to create separation. When posing the bride and groom for short lighting I'd face the groom towards the key light. That will broad light the front of the suit. I'd put the bride with her back to the key light as on the bottom left in the diagram below so the front of the dress is in her shadow to make it less distracting, then turn both faces back into the light... Men look better and stereotypically masculine when the head is kept square to the shoulders and "between the lapels". When a guy's head is turned towards the shoulder too much he will start to look stereotypically feminine. That's exactly the combination you want to make a woman look feminine, and because a woman looks good with head turned towards shoulder we have the option of turning the body towards or away from the key light which will make emphasize or deemphasize the front of the dress and cleavage if shown. The look can go from demure to sexy by exaggerating the angles If the clothing is light the body can be turned toward the light and not become a distraction from the face. To make a woman seem more serious and business-like, or if she is older or heavy and doesn't have a slender neck putting her in a more stereotypical "masculine" pose is an effective strategy. The important thing is to arrange the pose so the near shoulder and faces are as close to the same distance to the key light as possible because flash exposure of the highlights will only be correct at one distance. On of the things people who distain the "classic" poses is the fact they became classics because they mimic the body language we react to subconsciously all the time, and solve the technical problem of keeping the face closer or as close as the shoulder so the shoulder doesn't get overexposed. Because of fall-off and the problem of getting the same pattern on all the faces it is better to use butterfly for group shots. Its actually a more more symmetrical and flattering pattern for full face shots than short lighting which makes the brighter side look bigger than the shaded side. A centered low-ratio "butterfly" strategy also has the benefit of not casting any distracting shadows anywhere when faces in group shots are turned different directions It is also great for capturing spontaneous action... When I use butterfly with hot shoe I usually stand on a chair or ladder and put the off camera light below at around subject eye level... The flash on bracket becomes "key" the off camera the fill. In the shot above the sun was to her back, but muted with shutter speed. Chuck Oct 30, 2009 at 01:00 AM

jnshanwh Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #8 · shooting SB600 with manual settings When two lights are used with neutral centered fill, such as a flash on a camera bracket, it illuminates EVERYTHING the camera sees. It is set to the level which will allow the sensor to record the detail in the darkest areas... The off axis "key" light overlaps the fill and creates the highlights like putting the frosting on the cake. FYI - there is also a separate background light in that shot (from a 4 light studio exercise) Very interesting. I guess I thought of this somewhat differently in the past. With studio lights, I always thought of the key light (off axis) as the main source of light. Then a fill was added to soften the shadows cast by the main. When two lights are used with neutral centered fill, such as a flash on a camera bracket, it illuminates EVERYTHING the camera sees. It is set to the level which will allow the sensor to record the detail in the darkest areas... In this case shooting at a wedding with digital if the sensor recorded the detail in the darkest area wouldn't a white gown be overexposed? Oct 30, 2009 at 03:30 AM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #9 · shooting SB600 with manual settings The key light creates shadows, but the FILL light creates shadow detail. When we start thinking first in terms of goals, like having detail everywhere in a photo, its easier to find the best cause and effect strategy. We simply need to try everything and see which strategies accomplish the goal. In the case if Fill you simply need to understand that if the fill source is casting a shadow the camera can see then there will be no fill there. Thus the best strategy for fill position is putting it where it creates the fewest shadows and where the shadows it does create fall naturally on a face. Ring light is an ideal source of fill but not very practical. About 50 years ago photographers discovered raising a flash on a bracket 12-18" above the camera hide most of the shadows behind the subject. The same thing happens when fill is placed above the camera. It will create shadows under the chin and a few other places, but those shadows wind up looking natural and not noticed because natural light and most indoor ambient sources also come from overhead and create shadows in the same places. Another goal is to make the light flattering. A important element in a portrait is eye contact: guiding the viewer to the front of the face and revealing the eyes and mouth. As in person those to features are how we gauge the intent and mood. The nose? By evolution or divine design the human nose sticks out in between deep recessed eyes, an arrangement which helps prevent eye damage. But in a photograph the shadow hanging off the nose onto the bright cheek next to it or into the eye can become an unflattering distraction. In a photo the best way to draw attention to anything we want the viewer to see is to make everything else non-distracting. In the case of the nose distracting from the eyes and mouth the best way to make it non-distracting is to have it blend into the tone of the adjacent cheeks. When the key light is moved in line with the nose vertically the nose shadow falls down under the nostrils and the nose blends into the cheeks. But when the key light is placed to the side of the nose the far side of the nose will be in shadow. The position of the key light relative to the bridge of the nose will determine how the nose shadow is cast. The shape of the nose, which is highly variable, will also be a factor. But how dark the nose shadow becomes is directly related to fill strength and placement. As with the butterfly pattern a short lit nose will become less distracting as its shadow gets lighter and more closely matches the tone of the cheeks making the darker eyes an mouth contrast more. Thus in terms of cause and effect the most effective fill placement for eye contact will be the place where fill makes the nose shadow the lightest and least distracting on the face. Guess what? When fill is placed over the camera the nose winds up being closest to the fill and as a result has the lightest shadow. The fill placed over the camera falls off front to back making all the shadows further back darker which works to frame the highlighted front of the face and create the illusion it is thinner. Remember ideal fill doesn't create shadows? If the fill source is placed to the side of the face the higher parts of the face such as the shadow side cheekbone will start to shade the fill making some shadows very dark and distracting. Look at any "single light" photo filled from the side and you will find the nose shadow is usually the darkest one on the entire face because: 1) it is further from the fill source, and 2) the cheek is shading the fill. There will be very dark shadows around the base of the nostrils and corners of the mouth because no fill reaches there. The mouth if open will look like a dark cave because neither the key or fill reach there. Crossed shadow lighting where key and fill are places on opposite sides has the same effect. There are many low areas on the face neither light will reach. Also each light will cancel the more subtle shadows it casts. The net result is an odd looking mix of flat light with very hard shadows. Both butterfly and short lighting put the key and fill about 45 degrees apart for a full face pose. Since the fill hits everywhere from the point of view of the subject the light looks like one huge source which is brighter from the direction of the key light. That is as close as we can get to natural lighting on an overcast day. Back in the day when photographers understood this cause and effect they would put a bank of lights up near the ceiling of their studio pointed backwards towards the white back wall of the shooting gallery. The light bouncing off the back and side walls would do and even more effective job of creating an "open sky" fill effect. One of them was named Joe Zeltsman. In the 1960s he taught portrait lighting to a guy named Monte Zucker, who I worked for and learned from in the early 1970s. So the concepts I'm using like neutral fill are not things I made up, but are simply the application of the accumulated wisdom of some very skilled and knowledgeable photographers I've had the opportunity to learn from directly or by proxy. Monte was one of the first photographers to apply the neutral fill / key light approach to candid shooting when the invention of photocell triggers and portable flash units made it possible. Back in the day we used huge Graflex flash heads powered by a pack the size of a large motorcycle battery, filled with 410V dry cell batteries. Oct 30, 2009 at 12:37 PM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #10 · shooting SB600 with manual settings As for your second question about the dress highlights.... Like many you didn't realize when fill was added to lighten the shadows it was also overlapping the highlights and lifting them too. That's the problem when a person is standing outdoors with direct sun on the face. Adding fill to the entire face adds as much light to the cheeks and it does to the eyes and both get brighter by the same amount because the skin in both places is the same tone. Again lets start with the real goal of the exercise: reducing the contrast of the scene so it will fit the range of the sensor. Whether we add fill first or last it will be the "base coat" for the key light. But if you light the bride and groom with just the fill the amount of light needed to reveal detail in the darkest folds of the suit the camera can see will not make the brides dress white for the same reason making the bride's dress white with detail in any single flash shot causes the loss of shadow detail: THE REFLECTANCE OF THE SCENE EXCEEDS THE RANGE OF THE SENSOR. So when we adjust the fill level to the point the detail is revealed in the suit, the bride's dress will be a gray off-white tone. When we add the off axis KEY light on top of the base layer of fill it doesn't hit the entire dress. The parts it doesn't hit stay the same dishwater gray tone, but that's exactly the tonal value white fabric seen in shadow will be. What you need to be aware of in that situation is the relative distance of the different parts of the body and the face to the light. In the pose above the front of the body and the face are more or less equidistant from the key light placed to the left side. But had the pose been square shoulders to the camera the shoulder of the dress would have been much closer to the key light and it would be difficult to correctly expose the face and the dress at the same time. In the shot above the key light was placed about 8ft away because I needed to shoot 20 girls and their parents full length girl, H&S girl and full length with parents in the space of 40 minute and needed one lighting set-up that would handle them all. The shot above is an example of a feminine pose that keeps the front of the face close to the shoulder and the front of the chest in the shadow of the body to accomplish two things: avoid the shoulder becoming brighter than the face and the chest distracting too much from the face. The concept is the same: keep what you need to have more attention on closer to the key light. That's not always possible, especially in candid shooting, but if we keep the brightest highlights below the point of clipping it the darker areas can be adjusted with a screen layer in Photoshop. Chuck Oct 30, 2009 at 01:08 PM

jnshanwh Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #11 · shooting SB600 with manual settings Back in the day when photographers understood this cause and effect they would put a bank of lights up near the ceiling of their studio pointed backwards towards the white back wall of the shooting gallery. The light bouncing off the back and side walls would do and even more effective job of creating an "open sky" fill effect. I had a friend back when I worked at the lab who would let me use his studio to do engagement and bridal shoots. All I had to do was bring him a 6 pack as payment. Pretty good deal. The frustration came when he would get a new idea and change his lighting set-up and I had to figure out what he had done. But it was a good learning experience. One of the most ingenious ideas he had was also one of the most simple. For his high key set up he painted two walls of a corner white. The back wall and the side wall to the left. He set up one light at a 45 to the right as the main. Then the light would bounce back off the the left side wall (opposite the light) for nearly perfect fill. Another setup he used he turned his fill light (set up slightly off axis) to face the wall behind him. This would then bounce back past him to the subject as fill. Very flattering. I guess I should mention he always used an umbrella with the main light. The nose? By evolution or divine design the human nose sticks out in between deep recessed eyes, an arrangement which helps prevent eye damage. But in a photograph the shadow hanging off the nose onto the bright cheek next to it or into the eye can become an unflattering distraction. So I guess you're not a fan of Rembrandt lighting? Oct 30, 2009 at 11:19 PM

	end FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell end

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password   Lost your password?