What Size Umbrellas

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Archive 2009 · What Size Umbrellas

Andre Labonte
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p.1 #1 · What Size Umbrellas

Hi All,

I finally think I have my "beginer set-up" figured out in terms of stand, # of umbrellas & softboxes, colors, etc.

One last question I'm mulling over: What size umbrellas? 32" or 45"?

I will be mostly doing individual and family portraits with the occasional "product" style shot.

Thanks,
Andre

Oct 27, 2009 at 01:38 AM

RobertLynn
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p.1 #2 · What Size Umbrellas

45 of 32. They all have their uses. I have a westcott 43 convert. A 43 shoot through, and a 60 convert. I use the 60 almost exclusively now.

Oct 27, 2009 at 02:08 AM

Deezie
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p.1 #3 · What Size Umbrellas

Get one in silver and the other in white. Older folks generally can't get away with the extra punch that you're going to get with the silver. It gives too much information. You might consider getting one of the smaller PLM's from the Alien Bee folk.

Oct 27, 2009 at 02:37 AM

BrianO
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p.1 #4 · What Size Umbrellas

Andre Labonte wrote: ...One last question I'm mulling over: What size umbrellas? 32" or 45"?

Generally, bigger is better. Having one 32" and one 45" (or 60") would give you a choice, and umbrellas are cheap enough that having more than one won't usually break the bank.

Oct 27, 2009 at 02:46 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.1 #5 · What Size Umbrellas

I'm doing a lot of stuff indoors with 8' ceilings, so I think a 60" might be a bit large, but maybe I should go with one. Right now my plan is:

One - 32" white convertible
One - 45" white convertible
One - 45" white -- can be made square or retangular.
One - 32" silver convertible
One - 45" silver convertible

This should give me plenty of options to play with especially where I will only have two flash guns and a set of halogen "construction lights".

Should I ditch the 32" and go all with 45"?

Oct 27, 2009 at 03:18 PM

TomRittenhous
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p.1 #6 · What Size Umbrellas

With 8' ceilings, I personally would just get two 32-33" white convertible umbrellas. If you wind up doing much location work where there are higher ceilings you could add a couple 45" umbrellas later. A rule of thumb I use is 8' ceilings 33", 10' 45", and 12'+ 60".

Remember, the center of your light is going to be 1/2 the diameter of the umbrella below the ceiling, and you want your main light well above eye level. This is why I do not believe the bigger is better advice. Of, course, for short subjects like in your avatar you can get by with that 60-incher.

My own idea is that the only time you need silver is when you desperately need that extra 1/2 stop of light. I sometimes use a 45" shoot through for fill when I want to bounce a lot of light around the room.

I am old fashioned, and now have another 16" reflector for fill; I already had one for the main light. I had gotten by with a pair of 33" and the one 45" for years.

Oct 27, 2009 at 03:54 PM

kylegehmlich
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p.1 #7 · What Size Umbrellas

Andre Labonte wrote:
This should give me plenty of options to play with especially where I will only have two flash guns and a set of halogen "construction lights".

Careful with colour temperature when combining these sources.

Oct 27, 2009 at 04:06 PM

GeekChicPhoto
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p.1 #8 · What Size Umbrellas

If anything, take a look at the Photek Softlighters. You'll find very quickly that umbrella's spill light all over the place and you'll want something with a little more control. They're versatile as they serve as a shoot through umbrella, reflective umbrella, and a brolly box (best setup IMO).

They're not that much more than a regular 45" or 60" umbrella, so you should definitely give them a look.

Oct 27, 2009 at 04:09 PM

cgardner
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p.1 #9 · What Size Umbrellas

An umbrella is like two sources in one. Because the light source is in the center and the umbrella is also flatter near the shaft the light is more parallel and direct in the center than the edges. There is a "hot" spot that can be aimed for effect.

For example on a white background making the side of the head in an oblique view brighter that the front (broad lighting) makes it blend into the white background "pushing" the eye of the viewer towards the slightly darker front of the face. So in that situation the hot spot would be aimed at the side of the head with the softer feathered edge allowed to spill over the front.

On a dark background you'd want the front of the face brighter than the side in an oblique pose (short lighting) because it makes the face look slimmer. Its all a matter of what contrast with the background tone the most. So in that situation the hot spot would be aimed at the front of the face. But because its such a big source it will be difficult to control how dark the side of the face is with an umbrella, which is why a smaller source with less spill like a softbox is a better tool for dark backgrounds in a small studio space where there is spill.

Not a rule, just cause and effect. Bigger isn't always better.

Back in the days when direct sources were used the photographers would rarely aim a light directly at the face, instead feathering it and using the softer edge of the pattern. Regardless of what type of source its a good practice to help visualize the pattern of light the source produces. You'll notice what I mention above about the hot spot.

Start with the light at the angle needed for the pattern (e.g. 45 from the nose for short lighting) then rotate the light on the stand until is is completely missing the subject to the front or rear. Then bring the feathered edge back into the subject. Feathering forward-to-back will put less light on the background (better for dark ones) and feathering from behind/ forward will spill more light on the background (useful for white ones).

Chuck

Oct 27, 2009 at 04:55 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.1 #10 · What Size Umbrellas

kylegehmlich wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:
This should give me plenty of options to play with especially where I will only have two flash guns and a set of halogen "construction lights".

Careful with colour temperature when combining these sources.

Already matched pretty well. But thank you for the reminder.

Oct 27, 2009 at 05:52 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.1 #11 · What Size Umbrellas

Lot's more good advice here.

Tom, I think you made sizing easy. I will need both 32 and 45 from what you are saying. The great room where I do much of my work is closer to 10'

GeekChic, ooooh, those look nice and seem more flexible than a standard umbrella. They also come with silver and gold mods, so I may just drop the silver-lined umbrellas for those. This changes the equation.

Chuck, great practical rundown of how to use these things. There is much for me to learn. Thank you.

Thanks all, keep the ideas and advice coming.

Andre

Oct 27, 2009 at 05:59 PM

kylegehmlich
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p.1 #12 · What Size Umbrellas

Andre Labonte wrote:
kylegehmlich wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:
This should give me plenty of options to play with especially where I will only have two flash guns and a set of halogen "construction lights".

Careful with colour temperature when combining these sources.

Already matched pretty well. But thank you for the reminder.

Glad to hear. I remember when I first got into lighting I used a 430EX and a Smith Victor hotlight and I couldn't figure out why the hell the background was blue and the subjects looked like they had spray-on tans, lol.

Oct 27, 2009 at 06:00 PM

GeekChicPhoto
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p.1 #13 · What Size Umbrellas

Andre Labonte wrote:
Lot's more good advice here.

Tom, I think you made sizing easy. I will need both 32 and 45 from what you are saying. The great room where I do much of my work is closer to 10'

GeekChic, ooooh, those look nice and seem more flexible than a standard umbrella. They also come with silver and gold mods, so I may just drop the silver-lined umbrellas for those. This changes the equation.

Chuck, great practical rundown of how to use these things. There is much for me to learn. Thank you.

Thanks all, keep the ideas and advice coming.

Andre

Honestly, there's A LOT that you can do with just a medium and a large Softlighter. I have the medium (SL-5000) and I can do full body portraits with just that. I'm planning to purchase the 60" version soon.

Keep in mind, the 60" version does not come with gold/silver inserts. The surface area of the 60" is just too large for the inserts to make any type of difference.

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:33 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.1 #14 · What Size Umbrellas

GeekChicPhoto wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:
Lot's more good advice here.

Tom, I think you made sizing easy. I will need both 32 and 45 from what you are saying. The great room where I do much of my work is closer to 10'

GeekChic, ooooh, those look nice and seem more flexible than a standard umbrella. They also come with silver and gold mods, so I may just drop the silver-lined umbrellas for those. This changes the equation.

Chuck, great practical rundown of how to use these things. There is much for me to learn. Thank you.

Thanks all, keep the ideas and advice coming.

Andre

Honestly, there's A LOT that you can do with just a medium and a large Softlighter. I have the medium (SL-5000) and I can do full body portraits with just that. I'm planning to purchase the 60" version soon.

Keep in mind, the 60" version does not come with gold/silver inserts. The surface area of the 60" is just too large for the inserts to make any type of difference.

Interesting that you should say that. I was thinking I could get rid of buying four umbrellas and just buy a 32" and 45" Soflighter. Throw in the umbrella with the adjustible shape and I'm golden.

One question for you since you obviously have them, are the color inserts full liners of the umbrella or just a smaller reflector that spreads the light to the rest of the umbrella liner?

Thanks again for the advice.

Oct 28, 2009 at 12:35 AM

kenyee
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p.1 #15 · What Size Umbrellas

Andre Labonte wrote:
One question for you since you obviously have them, are the color inserts full liners of the umbrella or just a smaller reflector that spreads the light to the rest of the umbrella liner?

Small reflector...you tuck it behind the ribs...

Oct 28, 2009 at 12:53 AM

GeekChicPhoto
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p.1 #16 · What Size Umbrellas

It's a smaller reflector that fits behind the ribs. It helps to disperse the light more across the surface of the diffuser. The softlighters come with a mesh carry case that you can fit both the umbrella and the diffuser into so it's really convenient. The setup only takes a minute once you get used to it. Here's what I recommend you get:

- 45" Softlighter
- 60" Softlighter
- 28" Apollo Softbox

You can do a WHOLE LOTTA work with just those three modifiers, and they're all future proof since you can use em all with bigger monolights/strobes as well. If you have the money, I'd throw in a Kacey Beauty dish and you're pretty much complete.

Oct 28, 2009 at 06:06 AM

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