Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

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Akoloskov
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p.1 #1 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

I have created a tilt/shift adapter for a 35mm camera based on Cambo master PC 4x5 view camera. Not a new idea, but I want to share my efforts anyway:-)
It accepts virtually any medium format lens , larger format will work as well. All you need to buy or fabricate your own mount on a lens board.The whole project cost me less than $400 without the lens. I am planing to use it for a studio product photography, where tilt is highly desirable option to have.

First edition, vertical mount:

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Second edition, horizontal mount (I like it better):

This image is copyrighted by the owner

First I was planing to use medium format lenses with it, but was suggested to try high quality enlargement lens, and was surprised by the result:
The first test drive of the system, using Rodenstock APO Rodagon N 80 F4 attached:

See on the blog

Hope my experience will be interesting to a studio photographers.
The whole story and more details with pictures on my blog:

www.Akelstudio.com/blog

I would like to know opinions/suggestion from people who has used something similar, I still looking for the lenses for this setup.

Enjoy!

Oct 25, 2009 at 03:53 PM

JohnJ
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p.1 #2 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Alex, do you have any images shot with the APO Rodagon N 80/4?

This site has lots of adapters for large format cameras but quite expensive;

http://www.just-together.net/index_en.htm

JJ

Oct 25, 2009 at 08:47 PM

PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #3 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Interesting.

Are you using some kind of soft bellows that then attaches to a adapter mount that connects to the EF mount?

Oct 25, 2009 at 08:58 PM

AhamB
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p.1 #4 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

There's probably over 20 knobs on your rig!

Isn't the mirror box limiting the usage of the movements a lot?
I wonder how much more you can get out of this (besides more precise control) than regular T/S lenses or a something like a Mirex or Zoerk MFS.

Oct 25, 2009 at 10:16 PM

Sean Mills
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p.1 #5 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Awesome. I would love to see the results!

Oct 25, 2009 at 10:19 PM

Erie Patsellis
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p.1 #6 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

I had built something similar for my RB for architectural work, as well as have a scan back for my Sinar. While many would like to believe otherwise, there's no substitute for movements, as well as the control of the focal plane and perspective, that can't be realistically reproduced in software.

Oct 25, 2009 at 10:24 PM

archivue
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p.1 #7 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

i've fixed a "canon to hasselblad" adaptor onto a copal 3 lensboard... it works ok with lenses longer than 100mm...
i'm waiting for a 120 macro...

Oct 25, 2009 at 10:52 PM

JohnJ
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p.1 #8 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

I don't want to 'jack Alexes thread, hope he has some images to post, but here are a couple of pics from the APO Rodagon N 80/4 from a Sinar F/1Dsmk2 setup similar to Alexes.

Shot at F8, nice bokeh and uber sharp.

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100% crop, no sharpening or colour tweeks.

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Oct 25, 2009 at 11:01 PM

Akoloskov
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p.1 #9 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

I have a test photos taken with APO Rodagon N 80 (Thank you, John, I've got Rodenstock after you show me your pictures),
Here is my review (have it on the blog, but it seems that most prefer to see it here):

Lens: Rodenstock APO Rodagon N 80 F4.
Camera: Canon EOS 1Ds mark III.
Lights: White Lightning 1800, various light modifiers.
Camera/lens setting: 1/250 sec, F8.

The main idea is to see what quality I can achieve on this system and what benefits would give me the ability to tilt the lens. So, What I did it this: Took a first photo with a non tilted lens, focusing on a closest part of watch's dial. Second shoot with exactly the same lightning, exposure (F stop was not changed), but I tilted lens both horizontally and vertically. The result is below:

1. This shot was made without any tilt, you can clearly see (look at 100% crop) a where the focus pane is. I've used a relatively shallow DOF to show what you can do with such great lens attached to such a nice system:-)

100% crop, no sharpening:
100% crop

2. Here I was trying to move a focus pane to be in parallel with watches dial. Lens was tilted on both axes, about 15 degree ( measured by my eye, so do not quote me here) around horizontal axis (Y) and just a few degrees around vertical axis (X).

Wow! what a dramatic change, especially if you look at 100% crop. You can see a small amount of glare as a trade off, but overall very enjoyable result. Focus pane moved, now the whole dial is in focus, bracelet fading in blur much sooner.

100% crop, no sharpening:
100% crop

Overall, I was really impressed by the quality of the lens itself. This is enlargement lens which originally was used for enlarging medium format negatives, but it works amazing in macro photography as well. In fact, it is better wide open than my Canon 180 mm F3.5 L macro lens!

PhotoMaximum, yes, here how it looks:

Oct 25, 2009 at 11:16 PM

JohnJ
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p.1 #10 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Alex, very nice.

What aperture where they shot at?

I find the 80/4 is not great wide open, even as an enlarging lens (that's why I have it), but improves dramatically at f8.

Flare can come from any silver surface between the rear of the lens and the camera mount. It looks like the adapter you are using has a black inner surface but it's some thing to keep in mind.

JJ

Oct 25, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Akoloskov
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p.1 #11 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

John,
I've used F8, but the best sharpness I've seen was on F11. I did f8 for a purpose, to show the benefits from tilt without increasing DOF.

What other lens have you used with your setup? I am thinking to get soemeting wider for architecture, but can't find any non-expensive solution. I know Schneider Digital will work great, but.. still hoping to find something less expensive.

Oct 25, 2009 at 11:44 PM

JohnJ
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p.1 #12 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Akoloskov wrote:
John,
I've used F8, but the best sharpness I've seen was on F11. I did f8 for a purpose, to show the benefits from tilt without increasing DOF.

What other lens have you used with your setup? I am thinking to get soemeting wider for architecture, but can't find any non-expensive solution. I know Schneider Digital will work great, but.. still hoping to find something less expensive.

My setup has never been used in anger (for any useful purpose) so I've only used the lenses that I already have. If anything I find the large format lenses with Copal shuters more useful for the stuff that I do but mainly for the 1/500th flash sync speed (for use with strobes in sun). I've used a 150/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar-N which is OK at F8-11 but nothing to write home about. I'm trying to use it for my day job (shooting cars) but it's generally too cumbersome. The APO 80/4 is the widest lens I've used but my setup is not conducive to using wider lenses whilst yours is.

I don't think the large format/35mm body setup is conducive to architecture either but only because it's not easy to get wide lenses at a reasonable price. Maybe a Mamiya 645 or Pentax 645 35mm lens is worth looking into. These are not terribly expensive and the retrofocus design would still allow infinity focus on your setup (not mine). I have an RZ 50mm lens that I'll look into attaching to my system but I don't think my body is close enough to the lens mount to get infinity.

JJ

Edited on Oct 26, 2009 at 12:38 AM · View previous versions

Oct 26, 2009 at 12:19 AM

PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #13 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Very, very interesting guys!

I have a mothballed Sinar 4x5 system that I should play with.

Looking at the bellows you are using I wonder if one of square black rubber boots that are used around the shifter lever on automobile transmissions would work well?

I guess it depends on the lens and the distance between the front and rear standards on the 4x5 camera you are using?

Oct 26, 2009 at 12:34 AM

JohnJ
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p.1 #14 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

PhotoMaximum wrote:
I have a mothballed Sinar 4x5 system that I should play with.

That's what happened to me. I had the gear lying around already. I think I spent about 15 cents making the adapters, but you can buy them on evilbay.

Before;

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After;

Oct 26, 2009 at 12:40 AM

PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #15 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

I know we are getting into image circles, focal length, bellows length and a zillion other issues here...

But is there a reason that MF lenses are a good choice for this application?

Oct 26, 2009 at 03:08 AM

Akoloskov
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p.1 #16 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

John,that Sinar you have used, is it all geared? I mean movements? It looks less heavy than my Cambo, but I do not see all these gear knobs.. How smooth you can adjust it? I have never worked with Sinar so far..

I am thinking to get new tripod head for my setup, as I feel my Bogen is going to die soon if I continue to use it with such a massive camera.

BTW, I've played with my adapter today around the house.. Loved that nice, unreal look without any photoshop:

Oct 26, 2009 at 03:21 AM

JohnJ
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p.1 #17 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Akoloskov wrote:
John,that Sinar you have used, is it all geared? I mean movements? It looks less heavy than my Cambo, but I do not see all these gear knobs.. How smooth you can adjust it? I have never worked with Sinar so far..

I'm not sure that the Sinar is a good option for this kind of rig because the rear standard determines how close the camera can be mounted relative to the front standard. Your setup with the soft bellows attached to the camera body resolves this problem. It would be possible to do the same with the Sinar as the rear standard is removeable and could be replaced with a bracket to attach the body to the bottom of the standard.

How did you make the belows?

Any more images of the bellows, maybe from the inside showing how the adapter is attached?

This image is copyrighted by the owner

There are 2 Sinars in this pic. The one lying on it's side on the table is a Sinar P whilst the one on the tripod is the Sinar F. The Sinar P has geared movements throughout and is precise and heavy (fantastic camera). The Sinar F is light and has no geared movements. It's not a very precise body at all and is too flimsy IMHO but I'd rather lug it around than the P. Everything is interchangeable between them so I can easilly use the digital body on the P if I wanted, and I would for any studio work, but not out in the field.

JJ

Oct 26, 2009 at 04:51 AM

Akoloskov
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p.1 #18 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Good info, Thank you, John!
I've bought a regular soft fellow for my cambo, here it is, from ebay:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Then I've took apart one of my old broken lens, used a bayonet with a ring from that lens to screw together bellows.. I have cut some of bellows and glued the way you see on a pic, with lens mount holding everything.
So far it works very well.. Except the dust, which I start getting much more then usual, as expected:-) However, Mark III dust cleaning stuff works well, so no big problem so far, at least in a studio.

Alex Koloskov

Oct 26, 2009 at 05:01 AM

Akoloskov
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p.1 #19 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

John,
Some close-ups for the bellows to camera adapter, in case you need it:

Oct 27, 2009 at 04:02 AM

JohnJ
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p.1 #20 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Thanks Alex. That looks like a fairly easy modification to make to just about any bellows.

JJ

Oct 27, 2009 at 05:02 AM

Akoloskov
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p.1 #21 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Got one more photo done by using my adapter:
My blog post . It has setup schema as well.

Edited on Apr 29, 2010 at 08:41 PM · View previous versions

Feb 18, 2010 at 04:13 PM

pocketfulladou
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p.1 #22 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Do you run into problems where the camera's lens mount opening block the image circle to the sensor? It seems that this would be very limiting for large shifts and rise.

Feb 18, 2010 at 08:06 PM

Akoloskov
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p.1 #23 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

So far I did not have any architectural photography which may require shifts, only tilt in a studio. So, that was not a problem for me, as lens was staying in front of the sensor during the tilt.

I think it would be a limitation when I'll be shifting the lens, agree with you. However, do not have plans for such use of the setup, did it for in studio use, product and jewelry photography. it's too heavy to go out with (for architecture) anyway:-)

Feb 18, 2010 at 08:21 PM

Bifurcator
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p.1 #24 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Akoloskov wrote:
I have created a tilt/shift adapter for a 35mm camera based on Cambo master PC 4x5 view camera.

Enjoy!

This image is copyrighted by the owner

RESPEK !

Feb 19, 2010 at 10:57 PM

Akoloskov
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p.1 #25 · Developing a tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 camrera

Mar 17, 2010 at 06:17 PM


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