Which Micro Lens for DX?

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Archive 2009 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

dj dunzie
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p.2 #1 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre I've always said that as far as teles go, the 300/f4 AF-S is one of the better bargains available in Nikon mount. It's sharp wide open, which means that even though it isn't the fastest around at f4, it is USABLE at f4 unlike some other long lenses that need stopped down a little. IN fact it's very sharp wide open, and you'll find a million uses for it.

The Siggy 150 is also extremely versatile in many of the same ways, but adds crazy close focus macro abilities. For bugs and the sort, I doubt you'll find a more perfect companion since it has a little reach and gives you more working distance.

I'm with Doug though, if you really want light, grab that new 85 and tell us if the MTF results are the real deal.

Oct 22, 2009 at 06:04 AM

pr4photos
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p.2 #2 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

105mm micro works great on my d300

Oct 22, 2009 at 08:28 AM

TonyBeach
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p.2 #3 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

One of my favorite lenses is my Nikkor 85 PC-micro, which can be had for about $1000.

I bought a Tokina 90/2.5 a few years ago for abut $100 (it's a rare lens too), and I consider that the best bargain ever. To this day that Tokina blows away everything except my very best lenses -- I was only able to replace it as my go-to choice after acquiring the PC-micro.

Oct 22, 2009 at 09:38 AM

TonyBeach
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p.2 #4 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

dougjk wrote:
As for TCs on the 85, why not? I expect it wouldn't autofocus, but this is macro.

Using a TC doesn't increase magnification, only working distance; and it degrades image quality.

Oct 22, 2009 at 09:41 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #5 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

dougjk wrote:
Given your second post, I'd say the 85 DX for the tabletop stuff, and for bugs go to the 300 f/4 with TC and/or closeup filters. The Sigma 150 is a lovely lens, but it's not particularly small or light. I don't think you'll find a single lens solution for the two situations, especially if the 105 VR is already too large for your taste. As for TCs on the 85, why not? I expect it wouldn't autofocus, but this is macro.

Anyways, we need to have someone on the forum get the 85 so we can see if that ridiculous MTF chart is for real.

That's what I'm thinking (85VR and 300 f/4 with Tubes) will work best for me.

The 105VR was my choice before the 85VR and that it uses tubes is a plus. As a lens by intself, it is not too large for me at all. I actually like the lens quite a bit. It's just hard to justify adding that much bulk & weight to the bag given the other five lenses I plan to have over time. Ultimately, if I don't go with the 85VR it will be the 105VR unless someone points out some good reasoning to go with a 3rd party option. The Tamron 90 is on that short list. The Sig 150 would be on the short list too if I was not planning to go with the 300 f/4 and tubes. In fact, either the 105VR or the Sig 150 is what I would go with if I could only have one lens for all micro use.

As for the MTF of the 85 and the 105, they are not as different at they seem. The chart for the 85VR is truncated sooner than the 105VR since the 85VR is a DX lens. On DX, the 105VR is just as good over the same range as the 85VR. It's only on FX that the 105VR MTF chart falls off.

Choices choices. I just hope the 85 allows the TC to mount ... that would be the "why not?".

Oct 22, 2009 at 03:49 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #6 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

dj dunzie wrote:
Andre I've always said that as far as teles go, the 300/f4 AF-S is one of the better bargains available in Nikon mount. It's sharp wide open, which means that even though it isn't the fastest around at f4, it is USABLE at f4 unlike some other long lenses that need stopped down a little. IN fact it's very sharp wide open, and you'll find a million uses for it.

The Siggy 150 is also extremely versatile in many of the same ways, but adds crazy close focus macro abilities. For bugs and the sort, I doubt you'll find a more perfect companion since it has a little reach and gives you more working distance.

I'm with Doug though, if you really want light, grab that new 85 and tell us if the MTF results are the real deal.

Thanks DJ. We've always thought alike on lenses ... only my budget is smaller than yours ... you lucky dog!

Oct 22, 2009 at 03:51 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #7 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

dougjk wrote:
As for TCs on the 85, why not? I expect it wouldn't autofocus, but this is macro.

TonyBeach wrote:

Using a TC doesn't increase magnification, only working distance; and it degrades image quality.

One of my favorite lenses is my Nikkor 85 PC-micro, which can be had for about $1000.

Tony,

At min focus, TCs increase mag for micro lenses. But if you keep the mag constant (say 1:1) than the working distance for that mag increases. This is why TCs on micro lenses can be such a HUGE boon ... if you can live with the degraded image quality.

Ahhh, the 85 PC-micro. What a beautiful lens that would be to have ... not a bad option over the 85VR except the size/weight issue (and cost).... aaaarg! More choices.

Oct 22, 2009 at 03:54 PM

brinnonbob
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p.2 #8 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Yet another vote for the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 Macro! And be sure to get the Sigma 1.4X TC to go along with it. Actual working distance is approx. 8 inches in front of the lens. Plenty of space for flash use without lens shadows.

Oct 23, 2009 at 01:11 AM

TonyBeach
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p.2 #9 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:

Tony,

At min focus, TCs increase mag for micro lenses. But if you keep the mag constant (say 1:1) than the working distance for that mag increases. This is why TCs on micro lenses can be such a HUGE boon ... if you can live with the degraded image quality.

Have you done this? My experience was that after I filed the tab off of my TC14eII and tested it on my 85/2.8 PC-micro; I could not increase the magnification at MFD, instead MFD simply increased 40%.

Ahhh, the 85 PC-micro. What a beautiful lens that would be to have ... not a bad option over the 85VR except the size/weight issue (and cost).... aaaarg! More choices.

No AF either, but for what I use it for I don't miss AF. I'm waiting for an adapter to arrive from Hong Kong that will allow me to try out the 85 PC-micro on my A850. One thing that I'm looking forward to is the exceptional sharpness at smaller apertures with this lens and how that will work on a 24 MP sensor, that and the wider FOV than I get with my D300.

Oct 23, 2009 at 05:30 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #10 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

TonyBeach wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:

Tony,

At min focus, TCs increase mag for micro lenses. But if you keep the mag constant (say 1:1) than the working distance for that mag increases. This is why TCs on micro lenses can be such a HUGE boon ... if you can live with the degraded image quality.

Have you done this? My experience was that I filed the tab off of my TC14eII and tested it on my 85/2.8 PC-micro; I could not increase the magnification at MFD, instead MFD simply increased 40%.

Ahhh, the 85 PC-micro. What a beautiful lens that would be to have ... not a bad option over the 85VR except the size/weight issue (and cost).... aaaarg! More choices.

No AF either, but for what I use it for I don't miss AF. I'm waiting for an adapter to arrive from Hong Kong that will allow me to try out the 85 PC-micro on my A850. One thing that I'm looking forward to is the exceptional sharpness at smaller apertures with this lens and how that will work on a 24 MP sensor, that and the wider FOV than I get with my D300.

Hmmm, don't know about the 85mm PC, but the way I describe it is how it works on the 105VR. Also, from basic geometric optics it should work that way on all lens systems unless there is some other compensation going on (85mm PC ??)

Ooooo! Sounds like you have some fun coming your way with your 85PC. MF on a micro lens that is dedicated to the purpose is no big deal to me as all my micro work is MF. Do post some pictures you take with that beauty.

Oct 23, 2009 at 05:41 AM

TonyBeach
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p.2 #11 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:
Hmmm, don't know about the 85mm PC, but the way I describe it is how it works on the 105VR. Also, from basic geometric optics it should work that way on all lens systems unless there is some other compensation going on (85mm PC ??)

I'm not sure what I did wrong before, but you are right, it works that way on my 85 PC-micro too. However (my slight face-saving consolation), I am getting more detail without the 1.4x TC than with it -- this might be a focusing issue or perhaps something else perhaps that can be addressed, but from a practical standpoint I am not seeing any obvious reason to use the TC other than possibly changing perspective. I would note though that the couple of times I've attempted using the 1.4x TC to change perspective on the PC-micro, the results have been miserable.

Oct 23, 2009 at 07:34 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #12 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

TonyBeach wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:
Hmmm, don't know about the 85mm PC, but the way I describe it is how it works on the 105VR. Also, from basic geometric optics it should work that way on all lens systems unless there is some other compensation going on (85mm PC ??)

I'm not sure what I did wrong before, but you are right, it works that way on my 85 PC-micro too. However (my slight face-saving consolation), I am getting more detail without the 1.4x TC than with it -- this might be a focusing issue or perhaps something else perhaps that can be addressed, but from a practical standpoint I am not seeing any obvious reason to use the TC other than possibly changing perspective. I would note though that the couple of times I've attempted using the 1.4x TC to change perspective on the PC-micro, the results have been miserable.

Ah, good to know it works the same. Thanks for the follow-up. I'm not surprised that even the 1.4TC degrades image quality from the 85PC ... the lens is so darn sharp to begin with just about anything other than tubes will. My only reason for wanting to use TCs with a micro lens is to get adjustible working distance. It almost souns like the trade-off is not worth it and I should forget about that aspect.

Oct 23, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Kerry Pierce
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p.2 #13 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:

Ah, good to know it works the same. Thanks for the follow-up. I'm not surprised that even the 1.4TC degrades image quality from the 85PC ... the lens is so darn sharp to begin with just about anything other than tubes will. My only reason for wanting to use TCs with a micro lens is to get adjustible working distance. It almost souns like the trade-off is not worth it and I should forget about that aspect.

That's what I use TC's for, with my macro lenses. Whether or not you should forget about it, depends on what you do with your macro shots. Mine are not usually destined to large prints and the vast majority of my macros are simply for my enjoyment. The exceptions to that would be flower shots, which are usually done with the 70-180 micro and I don't use a TC with that lens.

The PC lenses are 1:2, IIRC. I've not tried a TC on my PC lenses, but a TC should take them to or beyond 1:1 capability, I think. That kind of magnification requires the best technique and support system, to get the best shots.

I use a 1.4 TC on the sigma 180 macro quite frequently, less so on my tamron 90. Of course, if I didn't have the 180, I'd use the TC on the tamron much more frequently. My support system and technique are not the best and it's a struggle to make real gains in resolution at the highest magnification levels. My focus rail is pretty mickey mouse, for example.... Mostly I use a TC to gain working distance, without going to or beyond 1:1 magnification, where it works fine, within the limitations of my skills and support system.

I've also used the 1.4 TC on my 100-300 f/4, when shooting closeups. Of course, that doesn't get me anywhere near 1:1 magnification, but it works fine. I've been wanting to try some tubes on the 100-300, but haven't gotten around to it. I have the kenko tubes, which aren't real good for stacking. I now have the pb-4 bellows, which I'll try to use with the 100-300 next year. My outdoor macro season is just about over for this year.

Oct 23, 2009 at 02:20 PM

sworth
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p.2 #14 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

The Tokina 100 2.8 is justas good as the 105. The only advantage the Nikon has is VR.

Oct 23, 2009 at 07:01 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #15 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Kerry Pierce wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:

Ah, good to know it works the same. Thanks for the follow-up. I'm not surprised that even the 1.4TC degrades image quality from the 85PC ... the lens is so darn sharp to begin with just about anything other than tubes will. My only reason for wanting to use TCs with a micro lens is to get adjustible working distance. It almost souns like the trade-off is not worth it and I should forget about that aspect.

That's what I use TC's for, with my macro lenses. Whether or not you should forget about it, depends on what you do with your macro shots. Mine are not usually destined to large prints and the vast majority of my macros are simply for my enjoyment. The exceptions to that would be flower shots, which are usually done with the 70-180 micro and I don't use a TC with that lens.

The PC lenses are 1:2, IIRC. I've not tried a TC on my PC lenses, but a TC should take them to or beyond 1:1 capability, I think. That kind of magnification requires the best technique and support system, to get the best shots.

I use a 1.4 TC on the sigma 180 macro quite frequently, less so on my tamron 90. Of course, if I didn't have the 180, I'd use the TC on the tamron much more frequently. My support system and technique are not the best and it's a struggle to make real gains in resolution at the highest magnification levels. My focus rail is pretty mickey mouse, for example.... Mostly I use a TC to gain working distance, without going to or beyond 1:1 magnification, where it works fine, within the limitations of my skills and support system.

I've also used the 1.4 TC on my 100-300 f/4, when shooting closeups. Of course, that doesn't get me anywhere near 1:1 magnification, but it works fine. I've been wanting to try some tubes on the 100-300, but haven't gotten around to it. I have the kenko tubes, which aren't real good for stacking. I now have the pb-4 bellows, which I'll try to use with the 100-300 next year. My outdoor macro season is just about over for this year.

Kerry,

Thanks for the input. Lots for me to think about here, especially given some of the great close-ups I've see you post. I have had good luck with TC's for work well away from 1:1, but not nearly as much macro experience. I have used a crazy combo of TC, tubes and a 500D on my 70-200 to get 2:1 reproduction with a 13" working distance from the 500D! I was surprised by the quality of it, but talk about a setup that takes forever to set up.

I want to simplify my life without adding too much bulk or cost. In an ideal world I just get a 105VR, 85PC, 70-180 micro and a 200mm micro and be done with!

That would mean as many micro lenses as I have regular lenses .... ah, to have $$ and muscles.

Thanks again for the post. I'm thinking on it.

Cheers,
Andre

Oct 23, 2009 at 09:54 PM

MichaelErlewin
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p.2 #16 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

My two cents:
I have almost all the good macro lenses that Nikon makes, including the 60mm 2.8, 105 VR, the 200 f/4 ED-IF, 55mm f/3.5 Macro, Micro 70-180 Zoom, bellows 105, 85 PC, and others, plus all the teleconverters, tubes, close-up lenses, etc. I have used the above lenses (and others) extensively and all are good in certain situations.

However, even with all of these Nikon lenses, the very best macro lens I have EVER used by far is the Voigtlander APO Lanthar 125 f/2/5. It is expensive and hard to find, but for nature macro work, it is sharper beyond any of my Nikons and fast too. Even now, each shot with it amazes me.

Of course, it depends on what camera body you are using these. Mostly I use the D700 and D3x, and the D3x is demanding enough that not all of the above lenses work well on it, like the Micro 70-180, for example. With the D3x FX camera, it is also worthwhile to play with some of the 300mm-range Nikons (like the 300mm AF-S f/4 which close-focuses to about five feet) with the 1.7 teleconverter and then crop the shot. This also produces some great macros.

Oct 24, 2009 at 05:57 PM

Kerry Pierce
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p.2 #17 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

Andre Labonte wrote:
I want to simplify my life without adding too much bulk or cost. In an ideal world I just get a 105VR, 85PC, 70-180 micro and a 200mm micro and be done with!

That would mean as many micro lenses as I have regular lenses .... ah, to have $$ and muscles.

FWIW, if I could only have one macro lens, it would probably be the 150 sigma. It's a very good value, IMO.

Oct 25, 2009 at 02:33 AM

brinnonbob
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p.2 #18 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

One more vote for the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 macro. Also think about getting the Sigma 1.4X TC to use with it if you want to extend its range with hardly any degradation in IQ) I can use this combo for at least 1 hr handheld before needing to resort to my monopod. (Am using a SB-800 for fill too on a D200)

You won't be sorry.

bOBf

Oct 27, 2009 at 01:07 AM

Kingfishphoto
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p.2 #19 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

I had the Sigma 150 in EOS mount. When i moved back to Nikon, i purchased the Sigma 180 macro and the Sigma 1.4 converter. Iam very impressed with the results on my D300. I also own a Vivitar 55 F2.8 MF macro lens, its very impressive also, and works well as a nice 55MM lens(not considering crop). I guess D700 is the next step.

Oct 27, 2009 at 01:34 PM

44lefty
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p.2 #20 · Which Micro Lens for DX?

The 105 is really terrific. I can't think why I might want VR.

Larry

Oct 27, 2009 at 02:29 PM

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